American Patriotism Terrifies me!!

reply to post by Mdv2


"You know what they should do with these FEMA detention camps? They should put these ''people'' in there and force them to get some education."

"Students should be forced to do internships abroad"

"The key to solve this problem is to force them to get educated"

It is ideologies like yours that makes people grateful that they have a right to bear arms. Such statements only reinforce the Patriot's beliefs that it their duty to remain armed - especially in the face of the threats posed by people like you.

Thanks for giving Armed Patriots further justification to remain armed.

I recently veiwd the vidios avalible on the "ignorance in america" thread. As a Canadian, I was startled to find that the kind of people in those vidios weren't just some negative steriotype. Anyone who conciders themselvs an American patriot should see these vedios and think over what definition they are using.

reply to post by Graber


Yeah it was quite worrying. Goes way beyond misguided! Have you seen the footage where McCain asks the women in the red jumper why she doesn't like Obama and she replies because he's an arab!
It's almost funny how wrong and ignorant these people are.
almost.

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to post by JipStix

 

Gun owners kinda scare me aswell, like they need to over compensate for something, particularly the ones who cling onto the second ammendment like it was written yesterday - guns serve no purpose in a civilised society

Ugh.

In the last 30 years or so, the US has gone from civilian police and relatively "normal" incarceration levels to paramilitary police and the highest rates of incarceration in the world.

If there *ever* was a legitimate need for weapons in the hands of the populace, it's right now. Unfortunately, we are facing a constant bombardment of anti-gun views on the media and in hollywood. This constant propaganda has seriously damaged our social fabric.

If we had any backbone, this "government" would have been replaced already.

reply to post by anonymousATS


So your argument that the gun owners in America haven't overthrown the government is not because of lack of guns but because of a lack of backbone?
If this is the case then there is no need for guns in America then. What is the point of an armed populace if it's no use in defending against the domestic government, like so many have argued on this thread, if the populace is unwilling due to lack of backbone?!

Or maybe it's just the ones with the guns that are paranoid and think everyone else is out to get them.

Jeez, it's like lord of the rings *strokes his gun whispering 'my precious'*

And back to the OP's point about patriotism, away from the oft repeated and never concluded argument as to whether fools have the right to own military hardware.

There is a quote that always struck me as being particularly apt when describing U.S. patriotism in particular, "The love of one's own country, leads to the contempt of others." or something similar.
I've been around, and lived in a lot of places in Europe, but here, the level and type of nationalism that seems to be evinced by the average American, is usually only seen among the neo-nazi groups, off to the far right of mainstream politics.
It seems that there is no longer a distinction in American culture or politics between nationalism and patriotism, just as there is no distinction between socialism and communism. This is a shame as it allows those who do not wish to indulge in the extreme politics and hate mongering that inevitably come with nationalism, to be painted as non-patriotic.
Of course there are historical analogies to be drawn, and conclusions can be read from those comparisons. However I will not be crass enough to make the comparison directly.

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman

Most people do not even know what the patriot act is. They think it has some thing to do with being a patriot. Wrong,check this out.
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


You think I've been watching too much Rambo? Well, I think your parents should have drowned you at birth. You know nothing about me. And folks of your ilk don't ever want to.

And I have a bit of news to you. You probably know as much about fighting as you know about setting the headspace on a Browing .50. Your mommy probably never let you play with guns. Not even a pop gun. Was she afraid of guns and passed that illogical paranoia down to you?

What? She still won't let you play with guns? And yet somehow, you talk so big! You're a joke. I notice that some of the most mach avatars represent some of the biggest candy-asses.

I do know a Wal-Mart greeter who is a generation prior to mine who fought at Anzio, was, and still is, a hell of a man. He's in his early 80's, but that Wal-Mart greeter to this day is fully capable of breaking his foot off in your ass, and at 100-yards, could still trim your ears with an M1.

Unlike you, I've had to fight. Unlike you, I've used weapons in combat. Unlike you, I've been decorated for valor. Unlike you, I've put it all on the line for others. I've actually had to pony up and prevail. Unlike you, I'm not so full of myself that I live in FairyLand. I wasn't able to hide behind a computer screen and like a hippo with the urge, spatter crap.

You don't like guns? Well, you do like your mommy taught you. She might just paddle your little fanny if you disobey.

Me? I handload, and I can still keep my ten-shot groups at 400 yards under four inches. Not three-shot groups. Ten-shot groups.

The biggest danger to this country is the ignorance you and folks like you display. Because if the situation goes tits up, no one will be able to count on folks like you.

In other words, I think folks like you are utterly useless.

Originally posted by anonymousATS
Ugh.

In the last 30 years or so, the US has gone from civilian police and relatively "normal" incarceration levels to paramilitary police and the highest rates of incarceration in the world.

If there *ever* was a legitimate need for weapons in the hands of the populace, it's right now. Unfortunately, we are facing a constant bombardment of anti-gun views on the media and in hollywood. This constant propaganda has seriously damaged our social fabric.

If we had any backbone, this "government" would have been replaced already.

Just curious here but have we not had the right to bear arms for the last 30 years? According to you, it has done nothing to stop them from advancing their agenda this far. What makes you think that owning guns will ever have an impact when it has not yet in "30 years."

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
Is it just me or does anyone else find American Patriotism worrying?

Most of the threads on this site, particularly from the southern states such as Texas, to name but a few, seem to blindly accept whatever America does without question.
It honestly reminds me of German Nationalism immediately prior to World War II, particularly the whole flag waving culture that now seems to be embedded in America.

The fact that Bush came into power under the guise of a 'War Presiedent' even before Iraq etc terrifies me and has no place in a modern civilisation.

Anyway, this is not a 'Flame' on America. I hope some Americans can prove me wrong. Let's keep this civil, i'm just looking to be corrected.

Discuss!!

Nobody can "prove you wrong". Bottom line is you are right, it does look like German Nationalism. It is the same thing. It is sick and a means to control people. Stupid people.

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to post by JipStix

 

Gun owners kinda scare me aswell, like they need to over compensate for something, particularly the ones who cling onto the second ammendment like it was written yesterday - guns serve no purpose in a civilised society

People like you frustrate me to no end. GUNS DO SERVE A PURPOSE in society. I don't say civilized, because we don't live in a civilized society. Our guns are our only means to protect ourselves from tyrants. That's what the 2nd Amendment was written for. And in case you haven't been paying attention for the last 8 years, we may be needing the 2nd Amendment more now than any time in history since it's conception.
And if you think that our society is civilized, then you need to wake up from Candyland my friend. Any society that would wage war on another for no other reason than resource theft is not civilized by any means.
Wake up out of your stupor and see things for what they are rather than what you're told to see them as.

Originally posted by MorningStar8741

Originally posted by anonymousATS
Ugh.

In the last 30 years or so, the US has gone from civilian police and relatively "normal" incarceration levels to paramilitary police and the highest rates of incarceration in the world.

If there *ever* was a legitimate need for weapons in the hands of the populace, it's right now. Unfortunately, we are facing a constant bombardment of anti-gun views on the media and in hollywood. This constant propaganda has seriously damaged our social fabric.

If we had any backbone, this "government" would have been replaced already.

Just curious here but have we not had the right to bear arms for the last 30 years? According to you, it has done nothing to stop them from advancing their agenda this far. What makes you think that owning guns will ever have an impact when it has not yet in "30 years."

Because you can only push a man so far before he breaks. One day, they are going to cross the line in the sand. They will overstep their bounds to the point where you will here a resounding "Enough is enough" nationwide, and there will be a rebellion. The vast majority of this nation is armed, and they sure as hell can't take us all out.

Originally posted by Oreyeon


Because you can only push a man so far before he breaks. One day, they are going to cross the line in the sand. They will overstep their bounds to the point where you will here a resounding "Enough is enough" nationwide, and there will be a rebellion. The vast majority of this nation is armed, and they sure as hell can't take us all out.

Ummm....but the above poster just listed how they have spent the last 30 years stripping away our rights. They have spent 30 years attacking us slowly. And your response is that eventually they will cross the line? If the line was not already crossed in what was posted, they have nothing to ever worry about. If they can get away with in 30 years all that you said, they have no reason to fear you or to stop.

Of course then again, I have also asked this and not one gun nut seems to be able to answer it.

How will you and your guns fare against biological weapons, chemical weapons, microwave weapons, body armor, teams of men with these things, and little access to ammunition. How is that gun gonna help you. They know better than to overturn that right because with it, people like you feel safe enough to sit back and watch it happen over say...30 years.



[edit on 10/18/08 by MorningStar8741]

reply to post by dooper


No wonder you need a gun. Judging by your littany of insults and baseless comments in lieu of information, intellect, or a reasonable response. Tell ya what, tough guy. Some of us have played with guns quite extensively. Some of us have no fear of guns, know how to use them properly, know what it feels like to shoot something. Some of us also know however to keep from needing it at a gas station in a bad neighborhood late at night and we know it will be useless against any advancing martial law. Not everyone that disagrees that gun ownership is all America is about is not just some anti-gun nut that never got to touch one. Some of us just know more than what it says in NRA pamphlets. Some of us are a little more educated and can think for ourselves. I have been in some pretty dangerous situations and having a gun with me would NOT have been a help at the time. When martial law comes, I can only imagine that no matter how many times I multiply the guns I do own, it will not be stopping anything from happening the way the governement plans on making it happen. All the guns in the world are not going to solve this problem. But I guess as long as they let you think that having this right keeps you safe from them, you have 30 years or so to take your time pulling it off.

reply to post by MorningStar8741

"no matter how many times I multiply the guns I do own"

so you own a gun?

Why? Do you like having the power to kill people?

Do you feel brave holding it at night? Do you feel like an action hero?

Why would you buy something that has no other purpose than to murder people?

Don't you know that guns don't keep you safe? The Police do.

*I bet you feel really powerful with your GUNS that you just confessed to owning... "the guns I do own,"

Why do you need so many guns?


[edit on 18-10-2008 by TruthTellist]

reply to post by TruthTellist


I love how you assume. I never said I bought any did I? I guess because there was an "s" at the end you somehow decide that I have purchased an arsenal for some reason? That is the most logical conclusion is it not? I wonder how possible it is that they were my late father's? I wonder if that is who taught me to shoot and respect guns? I wonder if I am here making the point that guns are not a solution for the same reason that I have NEVER bought a gun. But hey, go ahead and assume all you like. It reflects the way your mind works, unfortunately not reality.

reply to post by MorningStar8741


I was only asking a question. Gee whiz.

The Issue of Patriotism is is what this thread is about. In America, Patriots often choose to own firearms so as to protect their constitutional Rights - and because it is their right.

To some, taking up arms in preparation for defense of the Constitution is often an informed decision and not "blindly' patriotic - which is an erroneous assumption often made by anti-gun Zealots.

Ironically, those who are pro-Second Amendment feel this to be "blindly" Unpatriotic; and thus fight even harder against laws infringing upon the Right to ear Arms.


[edit on 18-10-2008 by TruthTellist]

Originally posted by TruthTellist
reply to post by MorningStar8741

 

I was only asking a question. Gee whiz.

Really? You went beyond asking a question. You shot a barage of insulting rhetoricals at me and anyone that can read can see that. Also, this is not a question-

*I bet you feel really powerful with your GUNS that you just confessed to owning... "the guns I do own,"

is it?

P.S. I keep a copy of your posts handy now because we all know you like to go back and change them when you have been called out. Feel free to do that now too so that I can show everyone exactly how you like to try and change what you said when you are made to look the fool that you are.

[edit on 10/18/08 by MorningStar8741]

reply to post by TruthTellist


Morningstar doesn't have any weapons. If there are any weapon-like tools in the house, they are nothing more than museum pieces, or keepsakes from her father. Since they aren't used in any manner, and kept hidden away, they are the equivalent of museum curiosities. Only good for collecting dust.

For generations, my ancestors not only taught their children to be proficient with the weapons at hand, to have a great respect for their capability, but the moral basis for handling a firearm in whatever activity may require their usage. One ancestor fought with Morgan and Francis Marion, another with Moseby's Rangers, another with Bloody Bill Anderson, my grandfather in the First World War, my father in the Second World War along with my uncles, two younger uncles fought in Korea, and I fought in Viet Nam. And no, the Army did not have to teach a single one how to shoot.

There's a ton of folks, even in a state of complete anarchy, that should never, ever pick up a gun. They don't have the moral resolve and the moral judgment to facilitate proper usage. Many, even when confronted would be incapable of fair operation, as their fear would overwhelm their relative unfamiliarity. Others would not have the courage to pull the trigger. Others, unfamiliar with the weapon couldn't hit squat as they are now under stress and have no familiarity of practice. These intelligensia, academia, and pseudo-humanists pacifists would have their own weapons used on them in turn.

It's a waste of breath to discuss firearm ownership with them. Some may have one hidden in the closet, but they are not responsible gun owners.

The greatest responsibility I think a parent should share with their children is a healthy, proficient use of firearms. What happens is that a number of children will end up in the military. And if you believe the Army will make a non-shooter proficient in firearms, you're dreaming. So, many a young man with no prior proficiency in firearm usage, when the firefights in some foreign country begin, will fall. The reason? You must be able to concentrate on your enemy, not the shooting, which should be a natural extension of your proficiency. Everything shooting should be able to be accomplished without conscious thought.

But, you non-gun owners, and non-patriots keep putting your own offspring at a disadvantage. After all, you'll have my offspring there to bury them.

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


I agree that an armed populace does not necesarily mean that they could overthrow a corrupt government/ dictatorship..

My thoughts on this "argument" are, It is not enough to just have the means. IE weapons, But I believe it is more important to have the WILL/DESIRE..

Now if you have a great desire and mediocre means, I would still put my "money" on the side with the most desire to win,

So using Iraq, or other examples of private citizens owning guns, to fight off a dictatorship or some other type of oppression, is (in my opinion) only part of the argument, you also need to figure out what the will or mindset of the oppressed, vs the oppressor was.. Who had the greater will to succeed??

I am not flaming you or your point of view, just trying to interject another piece into the whole..to be considered..

I also understand that you are not fighting for or against gun ownership, you are just discussing varying points IE pro/ con and the Ideas behind them... +same here...