American Patriotism Terrifies me!!

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
Why is the legality of the weapons such a big issue here?




If legality was the issue because it was somehow being compared to say, killings occurring the USA due to legal or illegal guns with a regard to responsible gun ownership or something, then I could understand. However, the point appears to be that, when the time comes, and someone is attempting to repel an invading or despotic force, then it whether the gun was bought legally or obtained illegally makes little difference. It's still a 'bang bang stick that shoots nasty men'.

because that is what we are discussing, I am not discussing weapons held by drug dealers, pimps and gangsters and nor am I suggesting these should be anything other than confiscated- I personally agree with legally held weaponry for two reasons

* greater chance of preventing tyranny than wielding a kitchen knife
* defending against criminals

win win I say, kudos to the yanks.

You fall into the mistake of not finding perfection and therefore dismissing, this is earth, nothing is perfect but some things are better than others


[edit on 16-10-2008 by blueorder]

Originally posted by TruthTellist

A most eloquent post dooper....


You are an example of a Real Patriot; Politically Informed, Well Regulated Arms, And a recognizable admiration of the The Constitution and Bill of Rights.

I wish I had a neighbour like you..

People of the quality of the OP will not understand this. In fact, such people would hate to have such a neighbour and it would probably cause them to lose sleep at night.... which is strange, because having just One of you in the area would be like having a Cop parked down the block all night - and a Good cop at that.

same here, he would be a good neighbour, certainly would prefer him next door if ever needing assistance compared to some other posters, or indeed the politically correct/corrupt police

reply to post by blueorder


Even though he claims that people killed in massacres such as columbine and Dunblane were 'dumbasses' and they shoudn't be able to breed?
Really?

Originally posted by blueorder

because that is what we are discussing, I am not discussing weapons held by drug dealers, pimps and gangsters and nor am I suggesting these should be anything other than confiscated- I personally agree with legally held weaponry for two reasons

* greater chance of preventing tyranny than wielding a kitchen knife
* defending against criminals

win win I say, kudos to the yanks.

You fall into the mistake of not finding perfection and therefore dismissing, this is earth, nothing is perfect but some things are better than others

But that doesn't appear to be the point that TheBudweiserstuntman is making. He appears to be saying that, despite where the guns actually came from - legal, illegal, given as gifts from passing alien motherships or whatever - they've not been particularly effective in repelling invasion. The demographic he's been talking about for the last few pages has been gun-owning Iraqis not gun-owning Americans.

You seem to be pushing him on a point that he's not actually making; why are you trying to do this?

As for me "into the mistake of not finding perfection and therefore dismissing, this is earth, nothing is perfect but some things are better than others". What are talking about? Seriously, this just looks like rambling.

I'm not looking for "perfection", just an American who isn't deluded into thinking that they can take on a better-trained, better-armed, better-equipped, more experienced American military with handguns or rifles.

Seriously, these Americans who believe they could take on and win their own military should be asking the American government what's happening with their tax dollars that are earmarked for the military. Are they burning them to heat Generals' offices or something? Because it seems to me that, if what people are saying is true, the Americans are wasting countless billions on a military that can be taken down by a generally untrained, poorly-armed population with generally no combat experience.

Again, I find it absolutely bizarre that I'm standing up for the American military here.

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
Before you even try and refute it here is your thread for everyone here to see;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That thread was created by a Physician to inform people of new dangers that are now present within the health care system in the United states.

The OP is also a Veteran of the Korean War and has delivered 1763 babies.

I recommend this thread to all Patriots who are interested in medical Privacy - and the U.S governments intrusions into the Health care system under the new Department of Homeland Security and the New 'Anti-terror' Polices enacted by the Bush Regime.

It has the potential to be quite informative and is based primarily on my experiences and those of my colleagues.

reply to post by TruthTellist


It doesn't matter what war you are a veteran of and how many babies you've delivered.

Encouraging people with psychotic tendancies not to become medicated as it will take away their right to own a gun is worrying, probably unethical.
You're pushing your pro-gun agenda over people's health.
There's a reason why psychotic people on medication shouldn't own a gun.
You are truly worrying.

If you provide me with your name and address I can forward your post on to the medical board and we can discuss their reply under a new thread?

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


Please stop Slandering me now.

I'd place on you ignore, but then I would not be able to refute your character attacks.

You've manged to misrepresent the content of my thread, taking my statements fully out of context - Telling someone to Find out more about the medication they are taking does not equate to telling that person not to take it.

I've tried to inform people and you have attacked me for it. You have made up lies about me and threatened my career.

I have colleagues and relatives who visit this site and I'm asking you stop attacking me now.

If you follow through with your threat and report me to any authority for what I have written on this site I will consider it a criminal action on your part.

[edit on 16-10-2008 by TruthTellist]

reply to post by TruthTellist


You truly are deluded. I have not slandered or misinterpreted your posts, while you have deliberately edited yours to undermine mine.

The last bit about the medical authority was to see how ethical you beleived your actions to be;

The fact that you threaten legal action proves my point! You know its not right to 'inform' patients that the medication you may prescribe will take away their right to own a gun.

Everything else aside:

Do you honestly believe that it is OK that someone on prescription medicine for depression or psychoses should be able to hold or carry a gun?

In my experience, The primary reason (after profits) that so many children and people in general are unnecessarily and over-medicated is to preclude them from firearms ownership.

If I prescribe an anti-psychotic, SSRI or even a benzodiazapine, that person will never be able to own a gun as they will not pass the background checks. I warn all my patients of this fact.

Here is what you said. That doesn't sound ethical to me, it sounds like someone with paranoia pushing his pro gun attitude onto people with mental health problems.

'I could prescribe you your medication but, you know, you won't be able to get a gun.'

The back and forth sniping stops NOW. This is getting too personal, and way off topic. If this continues warnings will be issued. Further reluctance to play nice will result in a three day time out.

Thank you.

reply to post by TruthTellist


Just to clarify, none of the above was slanderous - it was all factual.

The OP's statement was "American Patriotism terrifies me" and the thread turned into a 2nd amendment rant (from both sides).

I'm pretty sure that American Patriotism terrifies me now if all its about is the ability to own a gun. Paranoia seems to be running rampant over there since 9/11, again from all areas of society. (I, personally, am anti-gun but thats because they freak me out a little bit. I'm from N. Ireland where they were fairly common during the troubles and I still can't get used to them.) Anyway, it would seem to me that American society has mostly progressed, even with the 2nd Amendment so who are any of us to say it should be taken away?

Besides you'll be glad of those guns when the zombies attack!

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman

Hey bud, you still don't get it. My point at all times is that the ability of self-defense is a personal responsibility. If you don't want to assume that responsibility, fine. Your choice. But if you find yourself in a hatchet fight and you're the only one without a hatchet, well, it was nice knowing you.

When everyone had nothing but rocks, the first guy with a spear ruled. When everyone who had spears, the man with the bow ruled. When everyone had spears and bows, the man with the firearm ruled.

I have no intention of being ruled. You just have at it though.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

I'm not looking for "perfection", just an American who isn't deluded into thinking that they can take on a better-trained, better-armed, better-equipped, more experienced American military with handguns or rifles.

I think what a lot of those posting on this subject are counting on is 2 things:

1.) The large number of ex-military that ARE trained and armed (I am one of those); and

2.) Current military that would be required to fire on friends and family to refuse the order. (This requires a fair amount of faith on our part, but I think there is reasonable doubt that the grunt in the trenches will be willing to fire on his own people).

There is a great amount of assumption going on here, not the least of which is that America will even come to the kind of scenario under discussion. I for one pray we don't. A peaceful reworking of our government is preferred by all, I think. Unfortunately, many of us don't see it happening. The further I look into the future, the darker it looks.

Seriously, these Americans who believe they could take on and win their own military should be asking the American government what's happening with their tax dollars that are earmarked for the military. Are they burning them to heat Generals' offices or something? Because it seems to me that, if what people are saying is true, the Americans are wasting countless billions on a military that can be taken down by a generally untrained, poorly-armed population with generally no combat experience.

Again, I find it absolutely bizarre that I'm standing up for the American military here.

Well, as a former sailor, I can say this: We HAVE wasted tons of money, but for the most part, the toys available are pretty darn impressive (the ones we know about). Again, reasonable doubt. It is one thing to deploy against a foreign nation, quite another to bear down on ones own brother. Could we count on our military's reluctance? I wouldn't want to. And any soldier/sailor/airman in his right mind will tell you that a peaceful solution is preferred. War is an ugly, messy affair, and when you talk about a civil war???? That's UGLY, we did that once, and anyone advocating another needs to seek professional help.

All that being said, I must say this: regardless of what the future brings, I have weapons and I will use them in defense of my home and neighborhood should the need ever arise - regardless of who the aggressor turns out to be. Even if it costs me the ultimate price.

edited to add: To sum up my opinion: If (and I think that is a really BIG if) our armed forces turned on its own people, I just don't think we can count on a favorable outcome for the American citizen in general.

[edit on 16-10-2008 by DisgustedOne]

[edit on 16-10-2008 by DisgustedOne]

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman

 

Hey bud, you still don't get it. My point at all times is that the ability of self-defense is a personal responsibility. If you don't want to assume that responsibility, fine. Your choice. But if you find yourself in a hatchet fight and you're the only one without a hatchet, well, it was nice knowing you.

When everyone had nothing but rocks, the first guy with a spear ruled. When everyone who had spears, the man with the bow ruled. When everyone had spears and bows, the man with the firearm ruled.

I have no intention of being ruled. You just have at it though.

Yes, the only way to advance and overcome adversaries is to get bigger weapons. That is it. There is no need for intellect or forthought or intelligence. Just bigger weapons right? Who wants to outsmart their enemies anyway, shootin at 'em is a way bigger hoot.

reply to post by MorningStar8741


One thing I learned a long time ago was that when you kill your enemies, they cease to cause you problems. I never once had a single one come back.

Dead is dead, and deader is better.

The best warrior is one who is armed well, skilled, determined, and canny.

As a young man to help me remember the way to hunt my opponents, I had a spider tatooed on my forearm. That's how I hunted. My approach was rational, empty, cold, unfeeling, intelligent, and successful.

Oh yes. Productive.

Many on this thread do not count on the hundreds of thousands of combat-skilled veterans who are just as determined, skilled, and determined as our current military.

reply to post by dooper


Think you've been watching too much Rambo. You talk as if you're having constant 'Nam flashbacks.

You're not a warrior, who are you at war with!? You're probably a greeter in Wallmart that fixates on guns to get you through your day. And I don't mean that as an insult but the people I've met that are all talk are the ones that are really deluded. I had a friend who constantly talked about being in the Marines and constantly talked about weaponry. Turns out he was in the TA or National Guard, for a month. (And he worked in a supermarket).

Why do you keep talkin like you've killed and you'll kill again? Why would you need a tattoo to help you kill?

With all due respect, how dare you call these red necks patriots. These, and unfortunately America houses too many of them, are plain stupid sheeps brainwashed by the mainstream media.

You know what they should do with these FEMA detention camps? They should put these ''people'' in there and force them to get some education. Students should be forced to do internships abroad (in Asia, Australia or Europe).

The American people I have met while staying in various European capitals were really kind and friendly, but oh-so stupid.

In Czech Republic and Slovakia they have huge problems with gypsies. Many people deeply hate them as they are causing problems constantly. The key to solve this problem is to force them to get educated. Without education nothing will change.

It's funny - myself and my boyfriend are flying to NY at the end of the month. He is half Scottish and half Kuwaiti (and although he has a beard and moustache it is noe trimmed shorter) and I wonder how people will react to him. I am probably (well hopefully) being naive......though to be honest, after 9/11 (when he had long hair and a long beard incidentally - but this is due to th efact that he is in a metal band; he is in no way religious) he would get some crazy reactions from people who felt it was their right to make comments at him daily. Just thinking out loud........