American Patriotism Terrifies me!!

reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman


I completely understand. I am a gun owner but i do not hunt. I have a weapon because it is the only barrier between me and total slavery. even i acknowlege that if i am ever in need of it, the war i have been preparing for will likely take place in this very room and only for an instance.

Because of mounting tensions and fears here in the states my mother came to me and said " im ready to move. lets liquidate and migrate" it was at that time that i explained to her my own disgust for my preparations and i agreed. I would happily leave behind that weapon and all my gear to live in a safe and free society. but you see, that society is not the USA, Militia is needed here and for a damn good reason. im telling you that you had better embrace your gun owners here because they are the wall standing in the way of a complete enslavement of the American people.

Yes! in a civilized society, in a world where we can trust those that govern us, i would say that weapons are not needed. but today we must at least maintain checks and balances. When you ban steel core ammo for citizens what you really do is remove fear from those that wish to suppress us. so now the only thing needed to defeat your protectors is to strap a level two or three rifle plate on to their soft armor. its expensive as hell but hey, taxes are paying for theirs. there's really much more to it. but suffice it to say that if you cause a man to illegally arm himself, you can bet that no previous restrictions will be observed in his armorment. you will live in a society where thugs and criminals have weapons and you remain defenseless.

I wish it were different but it is not.

I live in a very isolated area yet all sorts of scum/drifter types find their way out here to do whatever it is scum does. I am often out here alone. In my neck of the woods we don’t get regular police patrols.

I would find it incredibly hard to shoot another human but for me to sustain a severe beating or worse is simply not an option. So you leave my gun alone or get rid of all the nastiness in this world. Hey wouldn’t that be a better use of focused energy get rid of all the perpetrators of murder and crime and let me have my gun for country life.

I wonder how your wife would feel being left alone out here in the backcountry? It would be nice if the man could be around protecting hearth and home with his might and muscle but that just is not practical. Especially in this #%$*@! up world particularly in a rural setting a woman needs to be able to defend herself and her children through whatever means necessary.

There are going to be extreme types from all walks of life. You use gun wielding yahoo American patriots as just one example well how about the Middle Eastern suicide bombers what about the terrorists who used the sarin gas in Japan what about all the bombings in the UK, all perpetrators of violence. There are armed crazy morons running amuck everywhere not just here in the US. If people want to do bad things having or not having guns doesn’t really appear to make much difference. What about the Canadian who made fast work of beheading that poor guy with a hunting knife we’ll give up our guns when Canadians give up their hunting knives!

Personally it's not fair to assume all of us gun owning Americans think guns are the answer to your problems. That is for your people to decide. I would like to hear from some rural residents in the UK and Australia I wonder if the criminal element finds its way to your remote locations, as is often the case here in the US. I am very curious how they deal with the problem.

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to post by Grumble

 

We don't have kooloaid, thats an american construct, like patriotism!

[edit on 10-10-2008 by Thebudweiserstuntman]

Awww... come on! You Brits don't have patriotism????? God save the queen and all that??

Your ancestors were pretty darn patriotic in the 1700's when you were attempting to subdue the colonial rebels. And we were rebelling against a capitalistic construct of the British commonwealth intent on pillaging the hardworking stiffs trying to support their families.

Give me a break!

reply to post by DisgustedOne


Brits have more East Indians, Chinese, Blacks, Polish people than you'll ever see in your life... Patriotism isn't something you want to throw around like the American Flag in every US movie...

Trust me you don't know what you're talking about, Jack.

I've lived here for the past two years, and it's nothing like back home... Back home, it's God Bless this, bless that, and our ohh so amazing land that God is protecting...

Trust me... American Patriotism is out of control...

Seen this junk?

www.apple.com...

How is THAT for patriotism? And just how ridicules is it?

I'm an American, but at the end of the day we're all children from Europe and other parts of the world... so, how's stopping that Euro Trash trend and realize just where we all come from.

The US on its worst day is better than most other countries on their best day...

Why do so many risk their lives to come here illegally?

And I love listening to the arm-chair quarterbacks talk about Bush. It is easy to complain after the fact, but the bottom line is that Congress agreed with every move, DEMOCRATS included!!!

I know, tell me about the lies Bush told... Congress had the same information he had, and they still AGREED with him...

If you dont have anything good to say about your country, leave or SHUT UP!

Behave youself. judgment is needed where judgment is really lacking, and this patriotism is been discussed on this thread for that reason. Deal with it or you should shut up pr polietly put, be quiet, because you are trolling.


America has all the recources, attractions and power in the world, because it takes from other nations throughout the world to be the country it now is. America is filled with so much greed and patriotism that its poisening the good it has left. I can tell you so many American's are feeling this as I'm stating so.

Illegal immigrants flood Europe and Australia too for example, stop been so ignorant, and it has nothing to do with the topic at hand that is a world wide problem and not confined to Amerca as you putted.

You see, People in power lie. Get to know that fact, and look at the devastations these lies has caused.


Please get some air and get real.

[edit on 11-10-2008 by mind is the universe]

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[edit on 12-10-2008 by GAOTU789]

What the OP is referring to are not patriots, they are nationalists.

Nationalists get most of their news from television and newspapers, and political rhetoric spouted from the pulpit of their favorite McJesus.

Nationalists cannot abide any opposing viewpoint, labeling anyone who holds an opposing view as "liberal" (pronounced 'lib-rull') or "un-American" (pronounced 'unamurkun').

You will find nationalists in church on Sunday singing "Holy, Holy, Holy" and then at Wal-Mart on Monday buying another "Support Our Troops" magnet while praising their children for committing multiple murders in Iraq.

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
guns serve no purpose in a civilised society

"Weapons create and maintain civilizations."

There, fixed that for ya.

Originally posted by cognoscente
One thing I don't understand about gun policies in the United States is that under some circumstances people can "carry a concealed weapon" in public places. That is just not civilized.

Would you rather the guns be carried around in holsters like the police? Perhaps I live in some happy ignorance but I would rather they be concealed. Brandishing them could only be asking for trouble, yet if concealed they are there in case there is trouble.

And like it or not it is legal.

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
reply to post by JipStix

 

- guns serve no purpose in a civilized society

Well in all honesty the need for weapons still exist because we still do not live in a civilized society. there is still crime ,still people who carjack you, still break into your house to take what they want,rob you for the change in your pocket and the money your wallet . that is not civilized so I think I will keep mine till that day when civilized society happens .

Guns serve a very good purpose.. Self Freekin Defense!

Cough... let's go on your logic here. .. Civilized societies don't need guns... OK, show me a single Civilized society on planet earth that don't have murder, assault, rape, burglary, etc.

......

........ I am waiting... LOL

In the US, Drugs (that dogs can smell) pour into this country by the TON.

Every Criminal will be armed... point blank, there is nobody who can tell us differently.

We had gun bans in Washington DC and Chicago... Care to guess where most of the violent gun crime was / is since those bans? ?? ???

Ole Great Britain is talking about banning knives... LOL
news.bbc.co.uk...

www.express.co.uk...

So I guess, there will be no "knife crime" after this right?

I swear sometimes I wonder about the sanity and logic of some people.

Have a nice day

Originally posted by ergo.proxy
reply to post by DisgustedOne

 

Brits have more East Indians, Chinese, Blacks, Polish people than you'll ever see in your life... Patriotism isn't something you want to throw around like the American Flag in every US movie...

Trust me you don't know what you're talking about, Jack.

I've lived here for the past two years, and it's nothing like back home... Back home, it's God Bless this, bless that, and our ohh so amazing land that God is protecting...

Trust me... American Patriotism is out of control...

Seen this junk?

www.apple.com...

How is THAT for patriotism? And just how ridicules is it?

I'm an American, but at the end of the day we're all children from Europe and other parts of the world... so, how's stopping that Euro Trash trend and realize just where we all come from.

Let's see, where to start???

Umm... You don't know me or what I have seen or who I know, so you start off with some mighty broad assumptions there, buddy.

Do you honestly believe that anything you see in a film represents anything close to reality? or that it represents the majority of American sentiment and values?

Yeah, there are times when I don't know what I am talking about. That makes 2 of us, now.

Just because I consider myself a patriot, doesn't mean I am ready to export the American way to the rest of the world. I think we should stop exporting anything American, including foreign aid money.... ummm... especially foreign aid money.

My heritage is Scotch-Irish with a little English thrown in just to keep things interesting. But I am an American by birth. There is a lot that is wrong with this nation, but true Patriotism isn't one of them.

BTW, my problem with the OP or you isn't personal, but this brand of hypocrisy tends to give me the hives.

Pip Pip, cheerio, mate!

So, is this it all? How pathetic how people turn a thread talking about patriotism and its defects into a "I own a gun because I'm an american" and "guns kill, it's wrong to own a gun" thread...

First of all (and sorry to you all people who think you're right in stating the contrary), owning a gun is maybe a right, but is majorly a wrong. You have to remember (or learn) that it was a convenient thing to add to the constitution when it was done, and for many reasons that were right then, but are completely outdated now.

Fact is, indeed, that countries where owning a gun is a right do not necessarily have a higher rate of crime than others. However, examples show easily that owning a weapon is an incentive to do something very wrong when a bad situation happens. "Protecting yourself" means what? It means only one thing: you don't trust your country rules or your police force.

I'm allowing myself to go for a big big sarcasm: so in the eyes of a lot, patriotism = owning a gun?

Sad people...

[edit on 11-10-2008 by SpookyVince]

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


All of the people that feel their guns will protect them from an invading U.S. government - do you think they forgot you all have guns? What are your guns going to do when you cannot afford gas and food? What good will they be against tear gas, chemical weapons, biological weapons, body armor and the guns THEY will have...and on and on. Anyone that feels their guns will do anything more than buy them a few extra miutes in the face of ivading government forces, is deluding themself.

Guns, guns, guns, guns, guns, and more guns.

That doesn't bother me - gay marriage doesn't bother me - rednecks that exchange recipes pst... don't bother me.

Reporters who report death like they do the weather, bother me.

American partriotism on the other hand is absolutely full-of-it . We will go to war\ if someone raises their hand to shout they Hate America in another country, even if its just a mindless thought.

If there isn't a political conflict and we happen to jump into the conversation, you can bet your ass there WILL be more than a political conflict in the coming years. Grudges are strong when it comes to this nation. I can't remember how many times I've heard the phrase, "remember when..."

And then look oh there's the civil war. Haha - now that was [not to be offensive to anyone] retarded. Honestly - how STUPID does one have to be to fight a war in their own country, AGAINST the other half of the SAME country? Idiots. Lol. Now thats idiocracy. I'm starting to think that should be the new name of our gov't. What do you guys think?

good point.

Cm.

Hi There,

TheBudweiserstuntman:

American Patriotism Terrifies Me!

Actually, it is not 'patriotism' that is terrifying you, but a warped and twisted perceiving of it. The problem for patriotism is how it is identified with, and this in turn is determined by how one identifies with the ideals of one's nation. From what creed, education, and experience does one gain one's identification with one's nation? For instance - as a generalistic example, does a conservative view patriotism in the same exact light as that of a liberal? Will a democrat agree with a republican? Therein lies the problem...the lack of a common concensus as to what actually constitutes patriotism. Which group is right, and whom sets the defining bar on patriotism? Can patriotism ever be defined to which all people of all persuasions political, religious and social, agree? One further question...do you believe it to be fair and right that your perception of your patriotism be manipulated and represented by others for their gain?

What is Patriotism?
Patriotism IS NOT nationalism. It pertains not to a singular creed or dogma, nor defines any such ideology that is not shared by all individuals representing the nation as a whole.

Patriotism is in fact, as far as it can be defined, a nation's conscience and shared empathetic cohesive spirit, enshrined at a nation's founding.

It is not to be thought of as a display of 'love' for one's country...love cannot enshrine patriotism, per se, for love of one's country is oft' perceived through divisive creeds and dogma, as implicitly shown through various posts to this thread. Patriotism does not place country above the ideals upon which it was foundered, for without the founding ideals there is no country; thus, the conscience of the nation and its cohesive spirit remain fixed upon the agreements to the founding ideals...patriotism upholds the agreements, and by doing so, ensures the longevity of the nation on the land mass that is the country.

What is passed off as being patriotic these modern times is not patriotism, but divisive nationalistic fervour, which is one step removed from being fundamentalism, and light years away from the founding ideals. Do not be conned by any appeals to patriotism if such appeals go against the founding ideals: that way lay the paths of nation-splintering.

Best wishes

Originally posted by skeptic1
reply to post by Thebudweiserstuntman

 

As a single woman living alone, my gun sure as hell serves a purpose for me. And, our Constitution gives the populance the right to bear arms and our Supreme Court has upheld that right. And, my opinion is if you don't like guns, don't buy one, don't own one, but don't dare try to take my rights to own one away from me.

And, I am highly civilized, thank you. I am also from a Southern state.

As for patriotism, real patriotism is a lot different than blindly following one's government. I view patriotism as loving my country and what it was founded on enough to question my government. In that respect, I view myself as a patriot.

You just stated why many small country's want nuclear weapons. Alone, afraid they cannot protect themselves. Fear. What you need is knowledge training and sensibility, not a weapon you will more likely hurt yourself or others with. Statistics might give an indication for this reality.

Because with that logic then the paper boy needs a gun to protect himself from you in case you mistake him for a burglar Then the appliance repair person and everyone who might fear you too because you are a stranger to them. It does not stop with your so called rights.

And for patriotism, I tend to think. Therefore I need no ideology or lead lemming to follow. I believe in the Earth and life. If my geographically isolated fellow organisms believe in the sacredness of that first, and anyone else who is a child of the planet, then I am OK with that. Everything else is a limited subjective blanket, with boundaries and limits on human freedoms.

Patriotism is like orthodox religion. Patriots do not necessarily have a foundation of understanding. They just feel hitching their wagon to a bigger group will protect them, whatever the operating logic. Fear is a herding emotion. Fear the ignorance that makes you think something other than your intelligence and god-given perceptions are not good enough for you to decide for yourself.

Now we see, don't we, we where all dependent on each other from the very beginning. Our ecological and now economic situation has shown us without any doubt, that if WE do not get US together and educate to that understanding there will be no one left to take any side but extinction.

I don't think we are civilized until we do not threaten ourselves and our neighbors with the bitter fruits of our lack of understanding.

We earn the title of true intelligence, only if we survive our ignorance.

ZG

"If no-one else had a gun, why would you need one? Why not take away your right to own one? What's next? Don't take away my right to own Inter continental Ballistic Missiles?"

Do you really belive that if the Government took all the legal guns from law abiding citizens, that there would be no more gun related crime? Do you also belive that criminals would just hand over theirs?

I could not find statistics of drive bys in Glasgow but I did find this:
www.liveleak.com...

reply to post by Mel357


I do believe that I asked someone to state how much worse the crime is in the UK since the only people with guns there are the criminals. Anyone got those stats yet to tell me what a battlefield the streets are over in the UK?

reply to post by JipStix

Like there was any difference between Bush or Kerry... the 2000 election was so close, the Skull & Bones guys decided to make sure one of theirs was on either side, so they wouldn't lose no matter who... and I'm guessing the smart mouthed ivy-leaguer will be the one to win this time, as well.