The American way of life is dead… , page 7

Originally posted by sadchild01
lol, Russians have Kamaz off road heavy duty trucks , and US has no counterparts comparable to russian heavt duty kamaz off road trucks(which has won 7 times) as proven by Dakar rally in the past 29 years

Russian Kamaz trucks uses a Cummins Diesel engine. American
technology.

findarticles.com...
query.nytimes.com...

In 1991, after the privatization, Cummins signed a 50-50 joint venture deal with Kamaz that, typical of Western companies, was based on a go-slow approach.

KAMAZ is clearly relying on its Western partners to equip it to survive that impending competitive onslaught.

This thread is about the American way of life. I think I missed the point of the OP in my earlier post, but our way of life is changing in many ways.

Not a loss of quality. In many ways it is actually better. We have so many conveniences that were absolute luxuries of yesterday.

Our awareness of the environment, health, and the globe are now changing the way we do things.

The internet and information exchange is allowing us as a society to have a faster response time to pressing issues of our day.

This isn't about beat down America, its about a changing America. For the better. From a technology standpoint, there are always going to be people that are going to be greater or lesser then ourselves.

China isnt setting any benchmarks for human rights or pollution controls.
Russia makes a pretty poor domestic car despite the Kamaz.
And Kamaz would be no where without foreign investment.

America may not always be leading edge, but we have surely held the edge for a very long time. World markets are integrating, and companies are looking for global partners and better solutions that help a people worldwide.

The Russian/American firm Kamaz would be no where without American investment or technology, and after their fire, would be no where without American insurance.

The old way of waste and reckless pollution in America is a dying way.
The generation of today are shedding light on poor practices of old and setting new standards for a better tomorrow.

Is the American way of life dead? With many of the old ways I would hope so. Americans voice their concerns because we are concerned as we should be. Id be more worried if people said nothing and life went on with business as usual.


Peace


[edit on 15-10-2008 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by HIFIGUY

---

Russia makes a pretty poor domestic car despite the Kamaz.

but it is cheap and fuel efficient , so does not matter , american vehicles are gas guzzlers

Russian Kamaz trucks uses a Cummins Diesel engine. American technology.

correction again , it uses cummins diesel engine for its medium range trucks
kamaz-4308 whcih uses CUMMINS B5.9 180 CIV-0 (Euro-2) engine , not for prime movers or heavy duty, . it uses indigenous 740.51-240/360 engine , by the truck used in dakar rally is kamaz-4911 which has YMZ-7E846 engine which was developed by Kamaz with german collaboration....

KAMAZ-740.60-360, KAMAZ-740.61-320 and KAMAZ-740.62-280 engines meet the requirements of Euro-3 international ecological standards. KAMAZ is the only representative of machine building which in 2006 received the RF Government Award in the sphere of quality; and it is the laureate of the “Russian Trade Olympus” award in the nomination “Competitiveness and Quality”.
www.kamaz.ru...

In January 2006 KAMAZ Inc. and the American firm Cummins Inc. signed documents of establishing a joint venture Cummins Kama producing engines of the series B with 140-275 hp for the Russian market. The authorized capital of the enterprise is $20 million in which the shares of the founders are divided equally. The enterprise will produce Euro-3 and Euro-4 motors with electrical control, in correspondence with ecological standards implemented in Russia.

kamaz.net...

kamaz-4308 uses cummins engines

In 1991, after the privatization, Cummins signed a 50-50 joint venture deal with Kamaz that, typical of Western companies, was based on a go-slow approach.

russian economy was bankrupt and it needed foreign investment then
[edit on 15-10-2008 by sadchild01]

[edit on 15-10-2008 by sadchild01]

[edit on 15-10-2008 by sadchild01]

reply to post by sadchild01

---

Hmm, lets provide examles of people who did not have degrees. Edison, Tesla, Philo Farnsworth, Jobs and Wozniak, even Anderson didn't have a degree when he developed Netscape.

Once again, I will repeat the undeniable fact, China is not the worlds technology leader. While they MAY become the worlds technology leader, that is a very big MAY, and they certainly haven't done it yet. Japan was supposed to take over the worlds technolgy leadership role, just as China is supposed to, but that never happened either.

Here is a typical representation of world leadership in technology.

pcdandf.com...

China did not recieve one award.

How many Noble prizes have Chinese scientists received over the last ten year? How many American? Who has won the most?

If any country takes over leadership in world technology from the U.S., my bet is on Israel.

The U.S. has many of the worlds most efficient cars, and the Tesla motor company recently greatly advanced technology for electric cars. Many U.S. truck companies are currently developing world leading hybrid technologies. Hybrid technology is old, not new.

Then of course there is the development of hydrogen fuel cells.

www.fctec.com...

Exactly where is China leading the world in technology? Your proof so far, some chip that used in all kinds of electronic devices which isn't even identified, and probably isn't even made by a Chinese company.

Like I said, you live in a fantasy world.

It is nice to see that the Russians have succeeded in finding a niche in the racing world. The Dakur Rally might be the toughest race in the world, but it is not so much about vehicle performance as the teams ability to last through the desert and navigate through hostile territory. How well do you think the Kamaz would do in racing in the Baja where the Hummer rules. My money says it couldn't even qualify. From what I read, Hummer has only competed a few years in the Dakur Rally, and they are already considered to be a contender.

Where is your data that the Kamaz is the worlds best off road truck, other than it has dominated one event, where most of the biggest truck manufactures haven't even competed. When Kamaz succeeds in winning several different events, only then can they claim to be the best.

Here are the top ten most powerful dump trucks, six of which are U.S. made. That is dominance in the truck industry and in technology, where the money is made.

www.dieselpowermag.com...

The fact that Russia had to shut down their stock market last week clearly shows how vulnerable they are to U.S. market problems. Once again, you choose to live in a fantasy.

[edit on 16-10-2008 by poet1b]

Originally posted by magicmushroom

The American way of life is dead…

english.pravda.ru

.... and like a beheaded corpse, still stumbling around, it has yet to come to that realization that should be obvious to anyone.

The American way of life, a system unsustainable by any stretch of the imagination, was facilitated on two facts: cheap gas and a valuable currency, the currency than morphing into cheap credit.

(visit the link for the full news article)

No silly. The American way of life is DEATH. Not gas and currency... LOL the fact we threaten so many other's with their demise is the reason why we were so fat. NOW cut some weight an stop the negativity. It starts with you and your message to everyone you see and interact with each day. The Country is no more than an extension of it's indivguals sub-conciousness. We all are so filled with hate each day from the road rage to the office back stabings.
I smile and share love with all I meet and talk with.
Now immagine if the country displayed thoose traits instead of the former. I plan on going out to the ocean tomorrow and placing my bare feet in it.
May I be so lucky to get an understanding for what my feet are really in the ocean, may I then next understand why Humanity projects so much hurt.

reply to post by HIFIGUY

---

Congratulations on your excellent post

I agree. Change doesn't have to be regarded negatively

Despite what we might feel to be 'hardship', we're still amongst the very fortunate eight percent of the world's population.

Well done .. great read

Hmm, lets provide examles of people who did not have degrees. Edison, Tesla, Philo Farnsworth, Jobs and Wozniak, even Anderson didn't have a degree when he developed Netscape.

a strawman argument , things like lasers,nuclear reactors,nanotech materials,tokomak fusion reactor, space crafts,ICBM's,atom bombs,jet craft etc. and most other revolutionary inventions were made by degreed scinetists and engineers

Once again, I will repeat the undeniable fact, China is not the worlds technology leader.

clearly, show , WHERE I SAID THAT CHINA IS GREATEST TECHNOLOGY LEADER ??? , please read previously my post again ..

and clearly , the report states that China is becoming a leader in research and development,and is already rivaling the US , which you were denying

it is already rivaling the USA as per the study

Japan was supposed to take over the worlds technolgy leadership role, just as China is supposed to, but that never happened either.

the difference then was that American economy was competitive and not facing a brain drain , as it is currently
timesofindia.indiatimes.com...
www.usatoday.com...
www.nsrconline.org...

These two snapshots illustrate part of a deeply disturbing picture. In the disciplines underpinning our high-tech economy -- math, science and engineering -- America is steadily losing its global edge. The depth and breadth of our problem is clear:

* Several of our key agencies for scientific research and development will face a retirement crisis within the next ten years.


* Less than 6% of our high school seniors plan to pursue engineering degrees, down 36% from a decade ago.


* In 2000, 56% of China's undergraduate degrees were in the hard sciences; in the United States, the figure was 17%.


* China will likely produce six times the number of engineers next year than we will graduate, according to Mike Gibbons of the American Society for Engineering Education. Japan, with half our population, has minted twice as many in recent years.

There are many more unnerving developments, and they add up to this: As other countries create the learning centers and jobs to hang on to their best and brightest, the United States is losing a dependable pipeline of talent. Moreover, we are doing remarkably little to educate and train a next generation of scientists and engineers.

"Most Americans are unaware of how much science does for this country and what we stand to lose if we can't keep up," says Shirley Ann Jackson, president of Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute and chair of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. David Baltimore, president of the California Institute of Technology and a Nobel laureate, puts it bluntly: "We can't hope to keep intact our standard of living, our national security, our way of life, if Americans aren't competitive in science. Period."
www.rd.com...

How many Noble prizes have Chinese scientists received over the last ten year? How many American? Who has won the most?

??
nobel prize , its been several times been accused of bias whether its physics ,literature ,peace etc.. so avoid using nobel as proof ...
anyways the PCB technology award source was good

The U.S. has many of the worlds most efficient cars, and the Tesla motor company recently greatly advanced technology for electric cars. Many U.S. truck companies are currently developing world leading hybrid technologies. Hybrid technology is old, not new.

US companies are still developing ?? no wonders Toyota Prius has made toyota no.1

The U.S. has many of the worlds most efficient cars

so do the japanese and indians(like Tata indica, future tata nano)

[edit on 19-10-2008 by sadchild01]

www.gatech.edu...

Hybrid technology is old, not new.

except that japanese effectively made it commercially viable and thus gained first mover advantage ...

by the way , on the chinese chips FBI fiasco:

www.popularmechanics.com...
www.nytimes.com...

Like I said, you live in a fantasy world.

but georgia state university disagrees with you .....

www.gatech.edu...

How well do you think the Kamaz would do in racing in the Baja where the Hummer rules. My money says it couldn't even qualify. From what I read, Hummer has only competed a few years in the Dakur Rally, and they are already considered to be a contender.

Baja is no where as tough as Dakar rally , firstly

secondly , hummer and kamaz are of a different class altogether as per Dakar rally regulations

read on Dakar rally:

The most challenging race on the planet? Dakar Rally is a good bet
Racers are a very territorial people. They believe their series is the best, their cars are the fastest, and their schedule is the most challenging -- and they are never more passionate than when it comes to defending their centerpiece race.

Ask one simple question -- What's the most difficult race in the world? -- and watch them circle the wagons. In Europe, they'll point to the Monaco Grand Prix or the 24 Hours of Le Mans. In America, it'll be one of the 500s, Daytona or Indy. In between, you might get a vote for the Pikes Peak Hill International Climb, Isle of Man TT, Baja 1,000 or even the Knoxville Nationals.


But the real answer is "None of the above," and deep down, they all know it.

The world's greatest motorsports challenge drops the green flag on Jan. 5, while the mainstream racing world is still sleeping. The Dakar Rally is a half-month marathon that begins in Lisbon, Portugal, and ends deep within the African continent in Dakar, the capital of Senegal. Nearly 600 teams across three different divisions will hammer their way over pavement, dirt, gravel, rock, mud, seawater, head-high grass and skyscraper sand dunes. Some race to win, some race to finish, others simply hope to survive. The competitors are a mix of world-class racers, billionaire thrill seekers and gamblers looking to earn a little cash on the dash. It's like the movie "Hildalgo," just not as boring and with horsepower instead of horses.
---

Dakar 101
More than any other race, massive numbers tell the mind-boggling story of Dakar: 570 teams representing 43 nations, 300-plus support vehicles, thousands of crew members, three different types of racing machines, 15 days, 9,723 kilometers at 300K-800K per day, covering two continents and five countries.

Each morning competitors take the green flag one by one, staggered out by class and speed. Remember those time trial stages of the Tour de France when Lance Armstrong would start last and start running people down one by one? That's exactly how a rally event works -- only a lot faster and a hell of a lot scarier.

The three classes are moto (yes, dudes on motorcycles), car and truck, each containing different divisions of varying size and modification. The car class includes light and medium-sized trucks, while the entries in the truck category look like high-tech moving vans, ditching 4-by-4 for 6-by-6 and weighing in at an elephantine 7,800 pounds.
sports.espn.go.com...

reply to post by sadchild01

---

"things like lasers,nuclear reactors,nanotech materials,tokomak fusion reactor, space crafts,ICBM's,atom bombs,jet craft etc. and most other revolutionary inventions were made by degreed scinetists and engineers"

Yeah, aided by people without degrees who contributed just as greatly. See, the classist beliefs that some people cling to are the very things that make the societys they create so backwards.

ROTFLMAO

First you say

clearly, show , WHERE I SAID THAT CHINA IS GREATEST TECHNOLOGY LEADER ??? , please read previously my post again ..

AND then you state

it is already rivaling the USA as per the study

One moment you claim you never claimed China was the worlds technology leader, and in the next breath you claim they are. Go back and read your report, it doesn't state what you claim, and the links I have provided prove how wrong you are, and yet you continue to pretend you have a clue.

The article you link to is talking abou ten years from now, not the current situation. You continue to be unable to distinguish the present from the future. Most of the software programmers who developed the key software that launched the information age were not degreed engineers. I know, because I know many of them. The people who launch the next wave of technology will not be the extremely conformist science and engineering graduates of China, but Yankees working their garages, just like the last wave, and the wave before that, and on and on. Since Silicon Valley has been taken over by engineering graduates, the software industry has gone into reverse, turning out worse and worse junk. While the hardware on our computers is more than ten times faster than ten years ago, our computers are slower, and buggier because of poor software development.

You are being suckered by sales brochures from Universities hawking their grossly over rated sheep skins. Are you really foolish enough to believe that the University of Georgia has more credibility than the Nobel Prize.

Maybe the Dakur is the worlds toughest race, but it is still one race, and only indicates the best truck in the specific area in which the race is held. In the case of the Dakur, a huge truck competing over a long distance. On a shorter race where vehicle performance is most important, the Kamaz can not even compete. The claim of overall superiority is nothing but an empty boast. When are you ever going to need a truck to go as fast as possible over six thousand miles? At most you are going to need a truck to go as fast as possible over five hundred miles at the most, and that is where the Hummer beats the Kamaz.

Those giant mining trucks are prime examples of who leads the world in truck technology, the U.S.. When it comes to Aircraft, who leads the world in the production of transportaion Aircraft, once again the U.S..

While the U.S. doesn't dominate in all areas in technology, we are still the ones leading the way, and the best those who hate us can say, is that we will not always be on top, and keep claiming that soon, someone else, like the Japanese or Chinese, or maybe the Indians are going to take the lead, but that day is still a long ways off.

reply to post by poet1b

---

Yeah, aided by people without degrees who contributed just as greatly. See, the classist beliefs that some people cling to are the very things that make the societys they create so backwards.

nonsense, again , its a known fact that degreed engineers are responsible for a great number of inventions and innovations and discoveries of 20th and 21 centeury ....

One moment you claim you never claimed China was the worlds technology leader, and in the next breath you claim they are. Go back and read your report, it doesn't state what you claim,

clearly, you did not read the full report

Study Shows China as World Technology Leader
Technology indicators show China ahead of the U.S. in technological standing

www.gatech.edu...

, and in the next breath you claim they are.

China is becoming a technological rival to the USA currently as per report and will surpass it in future as per report , and according to the report , China will surpass USA in future ...

Since Silicon Valley has been taken over by engineering graduates, the software industry has gone into reverse, turning out worse and worse junk. While the hardware on our computers is more than ten times faster than ten years ago, our computers are slower, and buggier because of poor software development

and improved speed of computer microprocessors,development of better computer printers,superscalar processors , better super computers , bluetooth , broadband internet etc ... all due to degreed engineers

but Yankees working their garages, just like the last wave, and the wave before that, and on and on

pure BS as usual from you ..,. the innovations today are due to degreed engineers
by the way , on what basis of future evidence do you make this claim ???

Are you really foolish enough to believe that the University of Georgia has more credibility than the Nobel Prize.

and you are foolish enough to believe that nobel prize is not influenced by political and intellectual bias , read this :

In 1983, the Soviet Union conducted the Relikt-1 experiment aboard the Prognoz-9 satellite in order to pinpoint CMB for the first time in history. This experiment was prepared by the Space Research Institute of the Soviet Academy of Sciences and supervised by Dr. Igor Strukov.
----
The discovery of anisotropy by the Relikt-1 spacecraft was first reported officially in January 1992 at the Moscow astrophysical seminar.

Several months later, George F. Smoot, the head of a similar U.S. project, told a news conference about the discovery of CMB anisotropy by the COBE satellite. The mass media reported this as the main science news of the day.

The project's co-head, John C. Mather, told Newsweek magazine that he knew a lot about the Relikt project, which had been conducted long before the launch of the COBE. He said the project had been one of the first attempts to discover CMB anisotropy, and that to the best of his knowledge, it had proved successful. Mather then congratulated those involved in the Relikt experiment.

He told Newsweek that many researchers had carried out similar projects at that time. He and his team fully acknowledged the achievements of their predecessors, who had obtained many valuable results, but their own results were better.

All this is fine, but according to the Nobel Committee's official statement, the prize went to Smoot and Mather for the experimental discovery of the correlation between CMB and its anisotropy. No matter what anyone else may say, Russian scientists were really the first to discover this phenomenon.

The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences has not been entirely politically correct in declining to analyze all aspects of this issue.
en.rian.ru...

continued :

A Russian scientist’s discovery?

Vladimir Radyuhin

MOSCOW: American physicist of Japanese origin Yoichiro Nambu received the 2008 Nobel Prize for a discovery made by a Russian scientist, rector of Russia’s top university claimed.

The Nobel Foundation credited Mr. Nambu with “the discovery of the mechanism of spontaneous broken symmetry in subatomic physics.” The discovery “gives us a deeper understanding of what happens far inside the tiniest building blocks of matter”.

However, Viktor Sadovnichy, rector of Moscow State University (MGU), says the discovery belongs to eminent Soviet theoretical physicist and mathematician Nikolai Bogolyubov, who died in 1992 (his name is often spelt in the West as Nicolai Bogoliubov).

Mr. Sadovnichy said Mr. Nambu borrowed Bogolyubov’s ideas when he attended his lectures at MGU and in the U.S. in 1960.

Later the same year, Mr. Nambu read his own paper on the subject, with Bogolyubov making corrections and suggestions. Shortly afterwards, he published his paper but made no acknowledgement to Bogolyubov, said Mr. Sadovnichy.

After winning the Nobel Prize, Mr. Nambu again failed to mention Bogolyubov’s contribution, saying he had found the concept of spontaneous symmetry breaking while studying superconductivity in the early 1960s.

Dr. N.N. Achasov, a leading Russian expert in light hadron physics, called Bogolyubov “the pioneer of spontaneous breaking of symmetry in quantum physics.” Bogolyubov, who created and headed a theoretical physics laboratory at the famed Joint Institute for Nuclear Research in Dubna, missed a chance to win a Nobel Prize during his lifetime. He was struck off the 1974 nomination list after the Soviet Communist Party mouthpiece, Pravda, carried a letter denouncing academician Andrei Sakharov as a “traitor.” Bogolyubov’s name was among signatories, though his son says he never signed it.

In 2004, the Nobel Prize in Physics went to three U.S. scientists “for the discovery of asymptotic freedom in the theory of the strong interaction.”

The theory was first developed by Bogolyobov and two other Soviet physicists, but their work was under a secret military programme and could not be nominated for the Prize, said Bogolyubov’s son.
www.hindu.com...

on nobel literature prize:

Gerald Warner: Ideological bias demolishes Nobel intentions

Published Date: 12 October 2008
THE Nobel Prize for Literature for 2008 is awarded to the French writer Jean-Marie Gustave Le Clézio 'author of new departures, poetic adventure and sensual ecstasy, explorer of a humanity beyond and below the reigning civilisation'." Thus the press release issued last Thursday by the Swedish Academy.
Although it is not quite a joke in the category of the Turner Prize, the Nobel Prize in Literature is rightly regarded with scepticism. The selection process is formulaic and restricted: this is no fertile territory for the politically incorrect
scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com...

again this is a example of problem of rampant political correctness that the nobel prize whether physics,peace,literature suffers from political bias particularly yes the nobel peace prize is most fraught with political bias like Al Gore won a nobel prize for global warming , and if war mongers like henry Kissinger and Yasser Arafat win nobel prize,

nobel prize regularly faces accusations of snobbery, political bias and even poor taste.
www.wtopnews.com...

so , be more open minded next time as nobel prize is more related to political correctness and has been several times accused of being fraught with political ,intellectual bias

Maybe the Dakur is the worlds toughest race, but it is still one race, and only indicates the best truck in the specific area in which the race is held. In the case of the Dakur, a huge truck competing over a long distance. On a shorter race where vehicle performance is most important, the Kamaz can not even compete. The claim of overall superiority is nothing but an empty boast. When are you ever going to need a truck to go as fast as possible over six thousand miles? At most you are going to need a truck to go as fast as possible over five hundred miles at the most, and that is where the Hummer beats the Kamaz.

proof ??? evidence ??? you provided none ... Dakar is the most difficult of all and yes , hummer has not won EVEN ONCE THERE ....montero has won 14 + times and kamaz seven times , by the way hummer and montero are of the same class as per dakar rally rules and regulations (light off road vehicle category) while Kamaz is a different class (heavy vehicle category)

Those giant mining trucks are prime examples of who leads the world in truck technology, the U.S.. When it comes to Aircraft, who leads the world in the production of transportaion Aircraft, once again the U.S..

those mining trucks are no proof as they are for specialised conditions , and in production of civilian aircraft it is not USA , its a duopoly in the market between Airbus and Boeing , get your facts straight

A duopoly refers to an industry chiefly composed of two dominant companies. Examples include Coke vs. Pepsi in the cola market, Boeing vs. Airbus within the aircraft manufacturing industry, or even the Democrats and Republicans within American politics.
www.wikinvest.com...

we are still the ones leading the way, and the best those who hate us can say,

people from your own nation say so , not us .....
read the statement of comptroller general David Walker

Learn from the fall of Rome, US warned

The US government is on a “burning platform” of unsustainable policies and practices with fiscal deficits, chronic healthcare underfunding, immigration and overseas military commitments threatening a crisis if action is not taken soon, the country’s top government inspector has warned.

David Walker, comptroller general of the US, issued the unusually downbeat assessment of his country’s future in a report that lays out what he called “chilling long-term simulations”.


These include “dramatic” tax rises, slashed government services and the large-scale dumping by foreign governments of holdings of US debt.

Drawing parallels with the end of the Roman empire, Mr Walker warned there were “striking similarities” between America’s current situation and the factors that brought down Rome, including “declining moral values and political civility at home, an over-confident and over-extended military in foreign lands and fiscal irresponsibility by the central government”.

“Sound familiar?” Mr Walker said. “In my view, it’s time to learn from history and take steps to ensure the American Republic is the first to stand the test of time.”

Mr Walker’s views carry weight because he is a non-partisan figure in charge of the Government Accountability Office, often described as the investigative arm of the US Congress.
www.ft.com...

like i said , your people say , USA is heading the way of rome

reply to post by magicmushroom

---

I never claimed

that techno advances are made in only free societies...

As usual, you are making a straw man argument that never existed. As made, my point on the issue is quite solid.

The U.S. isn't the only country that has been abusing the system. In fact, the U.S. is in the best position of most the worlds countries. Our population density is not nearly as bad as so many countries around the world that are going to be in far worse shape. Our ratio of people to fertile land is among the best in the world. World trade has worked against U.S. workers, not for U.S. workers. Most people in the U.S. would rather see a large decline in world trade, not a large increase.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

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