We Are Not Headed for a Great Depression, page 5

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reply posted on 10-10-2008 @ 02:53 PM by Zepherian

reply to post by tide88

What's a little thing like 11 trillion dollars of debt? I'm sure it's irrelevant and everything will be just as it was before... except with no money. /sarcasm and irony.

The debt situation is key to understanding how this situation will probably evolve, don't kid yourself otherwise. If it were not for the derivatives we would probably survive all this with just some bad inflation which we could work off, but the debt situation has a stranglehold on the economy, by design.

reply posted on 10-10-2008 @ 03:17 PM by nh_ee

For further insight into the US govt and it's economic diplomacy
I'd highly recommend a book entitled "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" Which will explain alot of what has recently transpired with the US economy.
As well as the history of the corporate diplomacy that has lead our country astray for the benefit of a few associated with the corporate bureaucracy.

Just take a look at the number of our political leaders who come from major corporations and defense contractors.

The previous depression in the 1930's was deflationary and was caused by lack of credit due to bank failures.
Today we have similar scenario with lack of credit but instead we've an inflationary recession. This being due to our constant printing of more money in an attempt to solve the problem with more printed money which equals more debt.

Flooding the markets with cheap credit is what got us here in the first place with the High Tech, DotCom and Real Estate bubbles. And is analogous to trying to extinguish a fire by pouring gasoline on it. This will only exacerbate the problem because at the end , someone has to pay the piper.

reply posted on 10-10-2008 @ 03:31 PM by Odessy

Articles like this are made for the general public, still slaving away, still paying taxes, still invested in the stocks... articles like this are made for middle class americans. the old minded folk who will read this and say to themselves, "See, I knew America had our backs." And then they will continue to work, continue to pay taxes, and go blindly wherever they are told...

Unfortunately, the recently evicted and jobless people don't feel the same way.

reply posted on 10-10-2008 @ 03:58 PM by JaxonRoberts

I would point out three things about the article referenced in the OP. First, it appears on a Fox News site, owned by Rupert Murdoch, which is known as a pawn of the right wing, which put us in this mess in the first place. Secondly, the data she uses refering to the Depression was from after the crash, not during it. We still have no idea what the long term effects are going to be. Lastly, we are not a production based economy anymore. We are a service based economy. We have no idea how this kind of collapse is going to affect us yet. It is still far too early to start making claims like the one that Elizabeth MacDonald is making.

reply posted on 10-10-2008 @ 05:32 PM by tide88

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
I would point out three things about the article referenced in the OP. First, it appears on a Fox News site, owned by Rupert Murdoch, which is known as a pawn of the right wing, which put us in this mess in the first place. Secondly, the data she uses refering to the Depression was from after the crash, not during it. We still have no idea what the long term effects are going to be. Lastly, we are not a production based economy anymore. We are a service based economy. We have no idea how this kind of collapse is going to affect us yet. It is still far too early to start making claims like the one that Elizabeth MacDonald is making.

Actually it was from the wall street journal , fox news just picked it up. I posted the WSJ link on the previous page. Why isnt anybody taking my bet. I mean according to all of you it is already a done deal. America's economy is over. Put your posting privilages where your mouths are!

reply posted on 10-10-2008 @ 05:46 PM by tide88

reply to post by MischeviousElf

It is a simple forum posting bet, dont read too much into it. And I am not saying everyone here is a doomsayer. This is actually the only prediction ever made that might come true. And I was talking about general predicitions that are made on this site. Like all the times the world has been predicted to end, at least once a week. However 95% of you believe this is the end. The rescue plan wont work. We are doomed. 10% of the 95% actually may know something about economics. The others just believe whatever doomsday scenario is posted. You can look at their posts and tell which ones I am talking about. They are the ones that agree with every end of days predicitons. And to the person that just spent a good chunk of his money buying bulk food items and is heading out to the country...

I remeber before YTK. My uncle, A doctor no less, bought a whole bunch of bulk food because he thought it was going to be a complete disaster. We all saw what happened with that. Nothing. I would love to see the posts on this forum, if this site was around, before YTK. I bet it was complete panic, talk of the end of times, better buy bulk food and go out to the country cabin talk. Hopefully you can all look back and say, "wow, I really overreacted again. When will I get a clue." Hopefully after this passes over we will not see the same crap when 2012 rolls around. However, My guess is we will.

reply posted on 10-10-2008 @ 05:52 PM by tide88

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
I would point out three things about the article referenced in the OP. First, it appears on a Fox News site, owned by Rupert Murdoch, which is known as a pawn of the right wing, which put us in this mess in the first place. Secondly, the data she uses refering to the Depression was from after the crash, not during it. We still have no idea what the long term effects are going to be. Lastly, we are not a production based economy anymore. We are a service based economy. We have no idea how this kind of collapse is going to affect us yet. It is still far too early to start making claims like the one that Elizabeth MacDonald is making.

Lets stop blaming the right wing. There are plenty of politicians on both sides that are to blame for the mess we are in. Look at the contributions that freddy and fannie made. Look who benifited the most from fannie and freddy running wild. Pretty sure Barney Frank is a democrat.

But his fingerprints are all over this fiasco. Time and time again, Frank insisted that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were in good shape. Five years ago, for example, when the Bush administration proposed much tighter regulation of the two companies, Frank was adamant that "these two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any kind of financial crisis." When the White House warned of "systemic risk for our financial system" unless the mortgage giants were curbed, Frank complained that the administration was more concerned about financial safety than about housing.

Financial Crisis Barney Frank Not saying Bush is innocent but he did try to do something about it. If you think the republican are the only ones to blame you are naive and have no idea what you are talking about.

reply posted on 10-10-2008 @ 05:58 PM by JaxonRoberts

reply to post by tide88

To be truthful, I was only replying to the OP and did not see the Wall Street Journal link. Secondly, I don't know what is going to happen, as I stated in my post. I wouldn't bet one way or the other. I hope that this madness can be brought under control. I doubt that it will be as bad or as long as the Depression was, but it still has the potential to get much worse. That is my only point here. I hope that you are correct and that this doesn't spin out of control. Only time will tell.

reply posted on 10-10-2008 @ 06:04 PM by Nonchalant

Some people just dont get it. The building can be falling around them & they still claim its structurally sound.

The denial only ends when a large chunk of the building hits them on the head..

[edit on 10-10-2008 by Nonchalant]

reply posted on 10-10-2008 @ 06:11 PM by JaxonRoberts

reply to post by tide88

Fannie and Freddie are only the tip of the iceberg, and it is the Republican Party that has waved the 'Deregulation' flag since the Reagan Administration, and deregulation is what got us into this mess, although there were members from the other side of the aisle who supported it as well. Another contributing factor is the 'borrow and spend' philosophy of both the Republicans and the American people as a whole. You can't keep spending more than you have and not expect this kind of thing to happen. Barney Frank is a blithering idiot, but has only been in charge of that committee since 2007, and this has been brewing far longer than that. As to my naivete, get back to me once you've lived through 9 administrations. I am an Independent, and I keep a close eye on both parties.

reply posted on 10-10-2008 @ 06:26 PM by tide88

reply to post by JaxonRoberts

You are right, it has brewing since the Carter administration. My point is we can point fingers all we want. The fact is all the politicians on both sides are responsible for this mess we are in. I am so sick of the finger pointing. Let just fix the problem. I for one am not voting for anyone who is currently in office right now. Everyone who holds a position in the government shouldn't be reelected. They are all crooks in my book. Including the two running for pres. right now. It is sad when you are voting who you think will hurt the USA the least. I dont think either of them are going to do anything new. I am so sick of the empty promises our politicians promised. You remember all the great things the democratic congress was going to do. Heck their approval rating is lower then the presidents. And that is nearly impossible. Screw them all. THey are all crooks!

[edit on 10-10-2008 by tide88]

reply posted on 10-10-2008 @ 08:08 PM by JaxonRoberts

reply to post by tide88

I agree, but is it too late??? I fear that it may be. I just wish I knew when it was that we lost our country and the Constitution became toilet paper.

reply posted on 10-10-2008 @ 11:51 PM by medicis

Started a long while ago. But the problem at 1907 and the solution (the fed) at 1913... then all the other crap. Everything for control. And yes, it was and is a goddamn conspiracy. Directed at you. At me. You think this is going anywhere but in a FEMA camp? You're crazy.

reply posted on 11-10-2008 @ 12:50 AM by Ex_MislTech

Originally posted by tide88

We Are Not Headed for a Great Depression

emac.blogs.foxbusiness.com

In a bear market, there is always a bull run on Chicken Little helmets.

We are not headed for a Great Depression. There are no souplines stretching for city blocks. Yes the market may drift lower, but here are the major differences between then and now

(visit the link for the full news article)

The depression did not appear over night, as one night
everything was fine and the next it was as bad as could be.

It was a gradual decline into some very bad times.

There is no dustbowl so I do not think food "should" become an
issue if the gardeners will remind ppl of the Victory Garden.

Fox news as a unbiased source of opinion for anything ?

I am no liberal mind you, but gimme a break.

Fox business is a bunch of band wagonning hanger-ons.

Some of these same dweebs was saying how the market is
near the bottom weeks ago.

They were guessing, they have no idea, and neither do I.

More empty suits spouting blather.

There are wants and needs.

Needs: Food, water, and shelter

Wants: Everything else

But...It will get real interesting when all the companies leave
for overseas at a faster pace and we give corporate welfare to
companies that $hitcan americans to ship jobs overseas.

Can you imagine getting laid off, you tap your 401k for money
to live on and it gets taxed, and those taxes go to pay the
company that laid you off to hire ppl overseas ?

That is what has been happening, and as the puppet masters
own the empty suits in DC, its going to "keep" happening.

Enjoy the ride !

Ex_MislTech

reply posted on 11-10-2008 @ 01:58 AM by 1011010110

First they said Iraq had WMD...

Then they said Iraq was an imminent threat and gave illusions of mushroom clouds over America

Then they said we're there to restore freedom and democracy.

Then they said if we leave, Iraq will be worse off and civil war would happen.

Now they say none of the previous excuses matter because the fact is we are already there and need to get the job (whatever the "job" is) done, and people don't care since few American soldiers are dying due to the "surge".

Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Iraqis are dead for LIES.

THESE PEOPLE ARE LIARS! They've been lying to us from day one with 911 and Bin Laden. BIN LADEN'S NOT EVEN WANTED BY THE FBI FOR 911! And they're continuing to lie to us. First they said there wasn't any problem with subprime mortgages.
www.realestatejournal.com...

Then they said subprime wouldn't spill over to other sectors.
blownmortgage.com...

Then they said the worst was over.
www.marketoracle.co.uk...

Now they're saying pass a 700 billion dollar bailout or else face economic recession, loss of jobs, lower GDP, etc, and they were telling us to hurry up and pass it because there's little time, and that if you vote no, there will be "martial law in America".
www.youtube.com...

Tell me that's not economic terrorism. Now that it's passed, they're just sitting on the money so Paulson can decide which fellow crook to hire. You people have got to be kidding me. Are many of you seriously so dumb? Thankfully, we still have some of their words on the internet. Who knows how long that will happen? At any given time, they can just cut the internet off or erase the webpages, and you people will think we've always been at war with Eurasia.

And you think there won't be a Great Depression? You're right. It won't be a Great Depression. It'll be a GREATER DEPRESSION, and it'll all be intentional. They did it. They did it intentionally. They did it because many, if not most, of you are too stupid to figure it out, to raise your voice, and tell them f*ck no, hell no

Let me [Bernanke] end my talk by abusing slightly my status as an official representative of the Federal Reserve. I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression. You're right, we did it.
www.federalreserve.gov...

[edit on 11-10-2008 by 1011010110]

reply posted on 11-10-2008 @ 02:02 AM by estrip

oh im sorry, the death star will be fully operational.

the bailout was named rather well, who is being bailed out is the question. what about teddy roosevelt, he made all these little jobs to employ people to help the economy out , why are we not doing that sort of thing or even attempting to do so, that worked, why not do that. if the foundation is ready to collapse, you dont add another story to the top, do you? bail out, what a joke. oh i know, lets get rich and the everage joe smuck will pay. i know , baillout. yeah, let the ignorant, poor fools pay at their exspense and we will collect and we will call it bailout. yeah.
we send your tax dollars by the billions to saudi arabia and other big buisnesses over seas all the time. america does not need to borrow, if our govt stops sending billions of dollars over seas. yeah, more free money, cool. all the stupid stuff we do. stop the stupid stuff and concentrate on money to pay off china, not borrow, stop spending billions over seas, stop bailing out the rich, stop taking money, ok. take and hack off the arm that goes in the cookie jar america. you know, your children born now could be an endentured servant to the chinese because of how much we owe. this will not happen, all congress will have to do is a swipe of the pen and we owe china nothing. oh, by the way world war three with china if that ever happened.
if the things happenning at hand do not cease, at this point, america will collapse. we are so stretched out on everything, all it will take is a small war, lets say iran. the hand in the cookie jar will not cease, the gluttony going on is to easy now. the markets will keep falling, do to more bank collapses comming up after nov. 21st. what can america do? you, think about that one.

reply posted on 11-10-2008 @ 04:08 AM by gambitraven

well my parents own there own store and have had it open that past 12 years. My dad said to me elections times allways drain the market.
but to a depression will be fine

reply posted on 11-10-2008 @ 05:47 AM by xoxo stacie

reply to post by tide88

I guess none of you where watching the cnbc coverage this am and heard one of the pissed off reporters say "depression" and had the gov puke over the table tell him thats "illegal". WHAT? yes thats right ILLEGAL! they arent allowed to say DEPRESSION !on TV. they even went as far as to call the "1930's THE GREAT RECESSION!" over and over.
I think mabe they wanted us to get it over all.but hey not to many noticed obviously. The reporter on the stock market floor was in tears by the end of the day.(come on ladies we know when another woman has been crying or is about to!) they saw the board go black on the 1089 point drop and come back as 400 something, they also saw how the overseas markets many of which(10 countries) "closed off" and on yesterday, diveing an average of 8 to 10 percent then they come back after the board black out as 3 to 5 percent lower! (Germany for one was at 10.3 percent loss till the board blackout.)I am not bs'ing you people I cant sleep much and have been watching the markets LIVE at night! They ALL have been crashing and closing the last 4 days! Alot of them wont even OPEN!!!but in truth if you have been paying any attention to this on a daily basis, they are making it crash, they want it too! get a clue, its cheaper to buy and control everything this way....watch what falls and goes out on what days: that day or the next the GOV's and MAJOR BANKERS come to the rescue and buy it up for a "STAKE" in those companies. this bail out bill was to be: to save the "locked up" mortage bankers...now its for what ever they want to buy and take over control of...Now the over seas people are on everyday doing the samething!!!
you all need to be ready and get your homes in line, this isnt contained to here in the USA its worldide. Its a blood bath all over again. What did we learn almost 50 years after the 1930's? It was a set up by the major banks and the fed! They went in and planted false rummors (now false flags) on a daily basis. Then when things started to fall away the rich and the overeas rothchilds elite group bought them up. (fire sales auctions anyone) Its the power grab; over the people; all over again .just with different words and its worldwide this time! We where the training ground for the first round. We where used to get THis complete take over off the ground and now after all we know we still cant see it. Why are you going to sit there and wait another 50 years to find out you have been had?
TextYOU WANT PROOF? DO THIS...
Tues when everything opens start watching it all "live" from about 12 (midnight) pst up until the close of the market here ;on tv and on computer...look at the market floors and see how many gun tote'n suits you can pick out...

then after the over seas markets have been closed for sometime double check the numbers everytime we have a major down turn... ps watch the MAJOR banks trading volumes! these are all live feeds; when they happen, but they pop up here and there with true amounts...and the laundering can be seen.then tell me i am nuts! (Why has GOLD suddenly taken a down turn? Who flooded the market with it? Most people who saw this coming bought up what? GOLD! to make sure they where safe.)
also have a few other windows of overseas news open too. if you watch you can see the panic and bank runs going on that are being blocked and removed less than 5 minutes after they come up. the truth is there you just have to be there to see it before the governments remove it from your sight....good luck and much love to you all we are ALL going to need it.