Brown declares 'war' on Iceland over refusal to hand back the billions it owes to British savers

Originally posted by kindred
The only thing that these people protect is themselves and their fascist agenda.

Only an idiot would spend their way out of debt, but that's Gordon Brown all over.

Whilst I agree with your sentiments about GB, your seem to have the wrong end of the stick about the spending. It's not about "spending our way out of debt", it's about spending our way out of recession. Two different things entirely.

Big Government projects/spending has historically always either staved off a recession or at the least, mitigated it's affects well.

It provides employment, simple as. For example, before now the UK's big Carrier projects were looking uncertain, now they are going ahead full steam. The project will ensure tens of thousands of jobs for several years at least.

Crossrail is another project that looked shaky until recently, now they are poised to spend nearly £20 Billion on the project, which in turn will provide employment up until at least 2017 in construction and for many years after in employing staff to operate it.

[edit on 6/11/08 by stumason]

Originally posted by jtma508
What happens to the US when China and the rest decide they want their money? This really is a serious problem. The MSM is probably ignoring it --- at the behest of the PWB --- hoping it will resolve itself. Like we need any more bad news.

The US will just print more money pay the bills in one lump sum then destroy the printed money when the serial numbers come back around.

By doing this they effectively ruin every other nations economy while preserving their own and remain a super power contender while the economy all goes down.

Or at least that's what I would do if I was sitting in that seat lucky for the world I'm not lol...

Edited for clarity

[edit on 6-11-2008 by Darthorious]

Originally posted by Waldy
If you want to learn more about this from trusted sources I suggest you check out this link: indefence.is...

The reality is that if Gordon Brown doesnt stop the bully tactics, unborn Icelanders will have to pay for the debts of private banks that worked within the EES regulation and did nothing illegal. Why doesnt he declare terrorist law on the German and US banks that have gone bankrupt and not been able to repay all depositors?

Did US and German Banks actively court UK customers with advertising campaigns to secure millions of Pounds of deposits? No. I'm sorry but there were a number of press and TV Interviews with Icelandic banking officials who poked fun at UK and other European banks and their inability to match Icelandic interest rates. They claimed that they could do this because they were modern efficient and more aggressive in securing new business. Even your Prime Minister (when you economy was booming) delivered a speech praising the new Icelandic entrepreneurs who, like Vikings of old, were setting sail to conquer markets across the world. It's this small elite and your government who deregulated your financial system and allowed debt obligations to dwarf Icelands GDP that you should blame. Ive looked at the link you posted and there seems to be a lot of denial in Iceland about who is responsible for all this. No one called you guys terrorists. But you did all have one hell of a party whilst times were good. No one worried about the bill or the hangover when the inevitable happened. If Icelanders want to point the finger at someone then it should be at their fellow country men who dropped them in this mess (I wonder where their millions are invested?) and not 'wicked' foreigners.

[edit on 07/21/06 by Fang]

I am British and I dont think it was right to class Iceland as Brown did- it was a gamble, no amount of pussy footing around will change it, that isn't Iceland's fault that people CHOSE to invest in their clearly dodgy banks

Originally posted by blueorder
I am British and I dont think it was right to class Iceland as Brown did- it was a gamble, no amount of pussy footing around will change it, that isn't Iceland's fault that people CHOSE to invest in their clearly dodgy banks

Iceland was not 'Classed'. Anti- terrorist banking legislation was used to protect British interests. Specificaly, to stop money held by Icelandic banks in London being transfered.
The Banks weren't "Dodgy". They had high credit ratings. (seem my first post)

Originally posted by Fang
Iceland was not 'Classed'. Anti- terrorist banking legislation was used to protect British interests. Specificaly, to stop money held by Icelandic banks in London being transfered.
The Banks weren't "Dodgy". They had high credit ratings. (seem my first post)

Yes, high credit ratings, we all know what value credit ratings are now (admittedly with hindsight)

What I mean is that greed underpins all of this (I am guilty of this as well, although recent experience means I will never fall into the trap again)- chasing the highest rate possible in a foreign owned bank?! There was no guarantee with British banks over and above £35k so why do people expect something from Iceland which at no point was ever stated?

reply to post by Fang


Excuse me but those banks and the government were all working within the EES regulations and monitored by the EU and the financial ministries of the branch countries. The British government knew about this months in advance but still they kept their money in Icesafe and did nothing to try and solve this, instead they worsened the situation by using terrorist legislation and bankrupting the largest Icelandic bank that was actually in a pretty decent condition compared to many British banks.

And now Mr. Brown (the clown) is demanding that Iceland goes way over its legal limits of depositors guarantee knowing it will cause a debt that can never be repaid. The UK is even using IMF as a tool to blackmail Iceland into paying more than double its legal guarantees.

You are just talking about the surface and have no idea how seriously this has affected the people of Iceland. Life savings are lost, pension cuts, inflation of doom, housing market is frozen and 40% decline in property value predicted. And Mr. Brown expects us to pay for something that he and others in charge of the EES and UN could have prevented months ago?

Im telling you, there has to be an agenda behind all this that hasnt surfaced. This was an economic assasination of a nation and you must see it if you open your eyes!

Originally posted by Waldy
Excuse me but those banks and the government were all working within the EES regulations and monitored by the EU and the financial ministries of the branch countries. The British government knew about this months in advance but still they kept their money in Icesafe and did nothing to try and solve this, instead they worsened the situation by using terrorist legislation and bankrupting the largest Icelandic bank that was actually in a pretty decent condition compared to many British banks.

And now Mr. Brown (the clown) is demanding that Iceland goes way over its legal limits of depositors guarantee knowing it will cause a debt that can never be repaid. The UK is even using IMF as a tool to blackmail Iceland into paying more than double its legal guarantees.

You are just talking about the surface and have no idea how seriously this has affected the people of Iceland. Life savings are lost, pension cuts, inflation of doom, housing market is frozen and 40% decline in property value predicted. And Mr. Brown expects us to pay for something that he and others in charge of the EES and UN could have prevented months ago?

Im telling you, there has to be an agenda behind all this that hasnt surfaced. This was an economic assasination of a nation and you must see it if you open your eyes!

I obviously sympathise with people who have lost money, however, there was no guarantee they would get their money back if things went tits up, so I fail to see how or why Brown acted like he has.

As an aside, I found it quite ironic Brown envoking terrorist legislation in his handling, I am from Northern Ireland, and "allegedly", some high ranking provisional ira chaps invested quite heavily in said banks, what goes around................

reply to post by Waldy


Waldy, I do not underestimate what a disaster this has been for the people of Iceland. But it's fantasy to suggest that The UK had some prior knowledge of this impending disaster and allowed it to happen. It's crazy to say that by preventing the transfer of Icelandic Banks funds held in London, the UK Government caused the collapse of any of your Banks. They were already bankrupt, finished, unable, even with UK investors funds, to meet their obligations. You are wrong. They were not in a good condition and everyone knew it, which is why other banks would not lend to them.
The UK government sought assurances from your government concerning the deposits of UK investors. None were forthcoming, in fact such was the confusion within your Government at the time that a number of requests for information were simply not responded to.
That's when the UK acted to prevent the transfer of funds from London. They did so to protect the interests of their citizens. What do you think would have happened if those funds had left London? They would have been used to secure the interests of Icelandic investors. The UK Councils, Hospital Trusts, Education Authorities, Charities, Pensioners and other individuals, would have received little more than a shrug of the shoulders from you guys, as their money was used to deaden the pain of your citizens.
To put it simply, Governments act in their own interest and those of their citizens. All Governments do this, yours too if they had been given the opportunity. As things stand the British Govt. will have to spend £ millions compensating those who were involved with your Banks because of the shortfall.
I know this is a conspiracy site but this has nothing to do with your minerals, Thermal energy, strategic position even cod reserves. It has everything to do with greed and deregulation. You might think Gordon Brown a clown but you need to concentrate on the Clowns in your own country who strutted around whilst burdening your country with debts it could never meet and those who allowed them to do this.


[edit on 07/21/06 by Fang]

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
yeh, we know who to pick a nark with in this country! When he's done with Iceland Asda and Morrisons had better watch out. . .

lolololol - that had me in stitches.......

Originally posted by Fang
To put it simply, Governments act in their own interest and those of their citizens. All Governments do this, yours too if they had been given the opportunity. As things stand the British Govt. will have to spend £ millions compensating those who were involved with your Banks because of the shortfall.

that is a laugh, ours doesn't, certainly not in the interests of its citizens, as it surrenders power to Brussells

reply to post by Fang


I´m not going to debate this with you any more because you seem not to understand that there are regulations and laws that these banks followed and that the depositors guarantee´s were always secure within those regulations. Another thing not mentioned is the fact that it was not only the assets of landsbanki that was frozen but also all money transfers to and from Iceland whether it was students trying to transfer or British fish buyers.

You say its crazy that the clown knew about this months before doing something but it is a fact. Read for yourself.

I know you want to defend your countries actions against the worlds most peace loving nation, but please try and read up on the matter more closely before saying the damage could not be minimized. Of course I admit those banks were over stretched just like many banks in Europe and the US, but to act like Mr. Brown and UK government is plain evil because they maximized the damage to the Icelandic nation.

Originally posted by Universal Light
Yeah I just saw this too. I've heard some talking about this question and I think it's an important one to answer. Is Iceland going to be the model for what's coming for the rest of the world?

What's going on there is getting almost zero attention in the states.

This is the first time I've heard of this over here in the USA. No mention on any news program this morning or on the radio.

This is very serious in my opinion and could cause another chain reaction collapse in the marlets similar to what has happened with the mortgage crisis.

Hold on boys and girls!

reply to post by Waldy

Well I'm sorry Waldy but he truth hurts. You haven't countered any of the factual points I've made and refuse to accept that the actions of an Icelandic elite was a major contributory factor to Icelands problems. Like I said there are a lot of people in denial in you country. Nevertheless, I wish you luck .

stumason
Whilst I agree with your sentiments about GB, your seem to have the wrong end of the stick about the spending. It's not about "spending our way out of debt", it's about spending our way out of recession. Two different things entirely.

Big Government projects/spending has historically always either staved off a recession or at the least, mitigated it's affects well.

It provides employment, simple as. For example, before now the UK's big Carrier projects were looking uncertain, now they are going ahead full steam. The project will ensure tens of thousands of jobs for several years at least.

Crossrail is another project that looked shaky until recently, now they are poised to spend nearly £20 Billion on the project, which in turn will provide employment up until at least 2017 in construction and for many years after in employing staff to operate it.

I'm not even going to pretend that I understand economics. Does anybody? Maybe that's why we are in this mess. Spending your way out of recession is all fair and well, but money doesn't grow on trees and all this debt has to be paid off and out of curiosity whose paying for all of this. The tax payers? who are already hard up. It's just a shame we the people, like the banks can't claim bankruptcy.

Ian Dales Diary
Blame the Bankers If You Like, But Brown Is the Real Culprit

'A global problem which required a global solution', says Gordon Brown, trying to make out that he has been the instigator of the so-called global solution. What he doesn't tell you, of course, is that Britain and America are the only two countries which have been hit in such a devastating way. There's a reason for that. With Brown as chancellor Britain let its finances get out of control and encouraged a debt boom, the like of which we had never seen before. Countries which managed their finances more conservatively have had fewer problems. Any rescue packages they are having to impose are largely due to the collapse in world markets because of what has happened in American and Britain, rather than in their own countries.

The Conservatives must not let Brown off the hook. He set up the current regulatory system and must be held responsible for it. It has failed and he is the man to blame. He was told over and over again the tripartite system was not working, yet took no notice whatsoever. It's all very well to blame bankers for taking short term risks - but the regulatory system which Brown was responsible for not only allowed them to do so but positively encouraged such behaviour. The warnings were there, but Brown ignored them.

There is little doubt that today marks a landmark in Britain's economic and political history. The long term political consequences are impossible to determine yet. Labour apologists (and to some extent parts of the media) are trying to spin this as the day Gordon Brown discovered his vision for Britain - see Jackie Ashley's (third) volte face in today's Guardian.

What a pity it cost us all £37 billion in the process.

www.nytimes.com...
I laughed at that article. If New Labour and Gordon Brown are good at one thing - It's screwing the the middle class and it doesn't take a genius.

Hickory-Dickory-Dock,
Inflation’s going up,
The Bear has killed the Bull,
And Lehmann Bros. are gul.
Soon the banks will be locked,
Hickory-Dickory-Dock.

Hickory-Dickory-Duck,
Stock market’s run out of luck,
The US announced ‘Bail-Out’,
But we still have our doubts
We know they’ve got no bucks
Hickory-Dickory-Duck.

Hickory-Dickory-Doke,
Now Iceland’s going broke,
And Argentina too,
And so are me and you.
And that’s the story folks,
Hickory-Dickory-Doke.

Hickory-Dickory-Dock,
It’s time to act, not talk.
So folks, pull up your socks,
And go sell all your stocks,
Before they fetch you rocks,
Hickory-Dickory-Dock.


Brown 'is Spending His Way Out of a Recession'

SHADOW chancellor George Osborne yesterday accused Gordon Brown of deepening the economic downturn by trying to "spend his way out of recession".

Mr Osborne (above) claimed Government plans to stimulate demand would result in a burden of debt which could take a decade or more to pay off.

The policy of borrowing more to pay for a state "spending splurge" was "a cruise missile aimed at the heart of the economy", which could force income tax up by 4p in the pound, he warned.

In a speech drawing dividing lines between Conservative and Labour approaches, Mr Osborne branded the Prime Minister "irresponsible" for suggesting the Government can "borrow without limit" to stave off recession.

Voters now have a clear choice between future Labour tax hikes to repay huge national debt, or a Tory "responsible road to recovery" which will eventually bring down levies, he said.

www.istockanalyst.com...

[edit on 6-11-2008 by kindred]

reply to post by kindred


Well I'm no fan of the 'New Labour' experiment but if you want to be seen as a neutral observer who doesn't understand economics, be careful of the sources you quote. If you want to avoid being seen as 'Tory Boy' don't quote that complete and utter plank Osborne.
Read some Keynes. You can spend your way out of a recession-if-it's done properly. It worked for Roosevelt.

I'm definitely not a Tory boy, but I've definitely had it with New Labour.

I shall have a read up on John Maynard Keynes when I have some spare time. Thanks.

For those people who talk with out knowing what is realy going on. Gordon Brown is a lier. I have been watching the british news and it seems as though all of the media is being controled becouse all I hear is the the same " Gordon Brown threatens to press charges against Iceland" when in fact its the other way around, only Iceland is not threatening. Iceland has already hired foreign investigaters to go through this case. The investigation has been going on for a while and they have said that though the investigation is still on going that they have yet to finde any unusual transfers from banks stationed in the UK, on the contrary money was being transferd to the banks to help support them. ( One of the reasons Brown said that they needed to freez the banks assets was becous he clamed large amount of money was being transferd to Iceland ( a lie)). Even if Iceland had been transfering unusual amount of money out of the uk or if the british coverment had ANY alligations or was afraid of Iceland ploting against them then he should have remember that we are in an organization that handels these kind desputes and he should have asked them to check out the Icelandic banks and then take legal actions. This was not done and the results were horrible. Now Iceland has already started laying out the ground work to sue the UK. It is very likely that when Iceland finally (this will not happen right away becouse the investigation will take a while becouse there are so may transfers to look at) that Iceland will win, aspecialy if they cant find any illigal acctivity in the Icelandic banks.

Not to worry, Iceland has come up with a way to raise money...

Whale meat imported from Iceland and Norway has gone on sale in Japan, according to the Icelandic firm which caught and exported most of the meat.

Hvalur hf told BBC News that after completing food safety checks, the meat was now being distributed.

The consignment is Iceland's first whale export to Japan in 20 years.

The trade is legal because all three countries have registered exemptions to rules banning international trade in whale products.

news.bbc.co.uk...

The good news is Iceland should only have to kill a few hundred thousand whales and sell them to Japan in order to raise the funds to pay off their debts.

reply to post by Fang


Please don't bring FDR into this and say he spent his way out of the depression. What he did was solidify the FED controll over our currency and has caused this world wide financial mess in doing so. Its the process of bad investments in a bubble economy thats brought this problem to your shores and its the World Bank and the Fed here in cahoots with them. These entities have conived to throw this world into turmoil to gain the upper hand in taking over all the banking and financing of the worlds economy. And you can thank that IDIOT FDR for it.

Zindo

[edit on 12/5/2008 by ZindoDoone]