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Never Heard of Jesus?

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posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 07:49 AM
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Christian communities are divided on exactly what happens to people who don’t hear about Jesus, there are some very orthodox views state that these people were simply unfortunate enough to be born into a non-christian household or non-christian country and unless they fix that and become Christians themselves they will go to hell and they will be punished for their crimes because god will only forgive Christians

Others who respond to this question say that the only unforgivable sin is actually consciously rejecting Jesus, therefore those who never hear about him don’t actually have a chance to actually knowingly reject him, therefore they also can be saved in the afterlife

Now for those who think that someone will be tortured in hell for not excepting a story that they never heard, well your god’s a monster so this question doesn’t really apply to you. For the rest of you, for those of you who believe that if someone never hears about Jesus they can still be saved – this question is addressed towards you

According to that view people who haven’t heard of Jesus are saved automatically, that means a person is born with a free ticket to heaven because they're born without hearing about Jesus. It’s only when missionaries come and tell you about Jesus that you get the opportunity to reject him. If you’re never given that opportunity then you can never consciously reject Jesus and you can never be sent to hell

If that theory is correct and people are saved who don’t know about Jesus because they can’t consciously reject him, then why would anyone knowingly spread the gospel? Why would anyone share this story with someone else and give them the opportunity to sentence themselves to eternal torture?

So if people are saved without knowing about Jesus, why would you ever tell them? – If people can ONLY be damned if they consciously reject Jesus, why tell anyone about him?

[edit on 9-10-2008 by andre18]




posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 07:57 AM
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Wait.... who?

That Hispanic guy that mows my neighbor's lawn?

I didn't know he was THAT important.

Wow, I should probably go say hi sometime soon.



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 08:11 AM
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Some good points are brought up here.

Ive always wonder about the Hindus, Indians, Buddas ect...they all seem very loving and peaceful, but yet, some say they are works of the devil because they refuse to become Christians. This makes no sense.

I do believe Christ showed us some fabulous things, but I think man polluted it so it didnt change the control of churches and al the money that flows in through the vatican. Is it wrong that a an Indian that might grow up with nature and have a peaceful heart goes to hell because he hasnt heard of Jesus?

The OP says that Christians think these people that dont know Christ will get a gold ticket, Ive been taught otherwise by my Christian upbringing, I was taught if they dont konw Jesus or have accepted him, they go to hell. So many lies, so many excuses and so many differences. How can one God not make his message clear?

LV



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 08:19 AM
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There is another demension that you should consider. Jesus is not the same being as God. There is a strong case for this but ether way, it's the personal relationship with God that earns someone the heaven ticket.

If God exists he would make everyone with equal opportunity to know him. I mean you don't even need the bible to have a relationship with God, so why would you have needed to know JC?



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 08:44 AM
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There was a nice documentary on TV the other night... it dealt with how the "world order" will change the next decades (sry, no nwo here, move along...), with countries like china on the rise etc.

It actually was a series, where the reporter travelled across the planet (EU/Asia/Russia/China/US/...).

It stated that religion will become bigger and bigger in the states, while the rest of the world focused on.... well, the important things.

It really scares me to see how some Americans have a middle-age view of the world. War as a task from god and BS like that. The eeeeevil Muslims. And now all non-Christians go to hell and are "un-fortunate" to not be born in a Christian household? Scary....it's so insane if you think about all the fairy-tales in this book and people murder for it. (Where's the "They shall not kill" btw? I think George Calin's interpretation "They shall try real hard not to kill anyone, unless of course they pray to a different invisble man from the one you pray to").


I couldn't word it better than this guy:



(I'm Christian myself. But just statistically, when I got to church the last time, few years ago, I felt like witnessing some cult, seriously.)

[edit on 9.10.2008 by SiONiX]



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 08:56 AM
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There is reffrence to this in the bible, it states you will be judged based on what you know, not by what you don't. Basically stating, those who have never known God or Jesus/Yeshua still have a basic understanding of right and wrong. Or in better terms a concience, it is this basic knowledge that all are born with that those would be judged by. Although personally speaking I prefer knowing over not knowing, due to the fact that we all at different points in our life go against what we know to be right in this manner. I would not want to be held accountable for every time I did such a thing.



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 09:30 AM
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The thing is, no one really knows the answer to this one.
I believe that we are all given the chance to accept jesus when we die and go before him. that way we all have a chance.
This answer is good for people who are worried if members of thier family die and wonder if they have gone to heaven or not.



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 09:59 AM
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Guys think about it.. The concept of heaven and hell were there way before Christ. Each and every religion has this concept and it common in all the religions that person committing sin goes to hell and person doing good deeds goes to heaven. Jesus is just a messenger or son of God who came to earth to live along with people to spread the message of doing good. I believe all kind and loving hearts go to heaven irrespective of their religion and it doesn't matter if they know Jesus or not. Peace!!!!



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 



Ive always wonder about the Hindus, Indians, Buddas ect...they all seem very loving and peaceful, but yet, some say they are works of the devil because they refuse to become Christians. This makes no sense.

Sorry to burst your bubble......


Hinduism is believed to be one of the most tolerant religions in the world. But stirred in nationalism and traditionalism, it could produce an explosive mixture, similar to one that has so far claimed over 100,000 Christian lives in India. Earlier the same fate befell Muslims that comprised around 13 percent of the entire population, and who were forced to flee their homes and seek refuge in neighboring Pakistan. The problem that Indian Christians are facing is even more perilous as they have nowhere to go. The 20 million people who admit to believing in Jesus Christ are on the brink of physical extermination.

Holocaust of Indian Christians



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by jon1
The thing is, no one really knows the answer to this one.
I believe that we are all given the chance to accept jesus when we die and go before him. that way we all have a chance.
This answer is good for people who are worried if members of thier family die and wonder if they have gone to heaven or not.


This answer might be nice for families who have an agnostic or atheist relative. But the problem with this theory that I have is, what if someone is born into another religion? If you're born and raised worshipping Allah and Mohammed is his prophet, and by your theory, that person dies and gets the opportunity to accept Jesus, that would contradict his entire life. Doesn't make sense to me.

I've always wondered how Christians felt about this issue. Or vice versa with any religion. If you're born somewhere where Christianity simply does not exist you're condemned to burn in hell for all enternity for that? Doesn't seem like a very just god to me. The golden pass idea sounds equally silly to me, why would Christians want to go to a heaven where the overwhelming majority of people there are non-believers?



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 02:59 PM
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This question is answered in John 14.

www.biblegateway.com...

15"If you love me, you will obey what I command.

16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever—

17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you.

18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.

20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

21Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

22Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, "But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?"

23Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by andre18
 


You are not damned for rejecting Jesus,you are damned for blaspheming against the Holy Spirit;that is the Unforgivable Sin.

Mark 3:28-30.

28 Verily I say unto you,All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness,but is in danger of eternal damnation.30 Because they said,He hath an unclean spirit.


To say that rejecting Jesus or not even knowing Jesus means you are damned is not Bible doctrine,it is an early church doctrine started by some Catholics to scare the life out've ya!



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 04:02 PM
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My reading of the new testament is that there are two separate judgments. You can see this quite clearly in Revelation 20.

The first judgment is solely for the people who believed in Christ.



Revelation 20:4-5

Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom judgment was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.




The second judgment is for what most English versions call "The nations." The hebrew speaking audience of the original books would have understood this as the heathen, or unbelieving, ("goyim") nations:



Revelation 20:11-12

Then I saw a great white throne and him who sat upon it; from his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, by what they had done.




and in Revelation 2:11



He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.




So you can see that they are not automatically consigned to punishment without any consideration of the life they have lived (or failed to live). Matthew also refers to this second judgment in Matthew 25, where the King judges "the nations" according to how they served the needy and downtrodden.

The Gospel of John goes so far as to say that believers will avoid the "judgment of works" altogether:


Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.



all the best.
.



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by andre18
 


You bring up some good points.
I believe the majority of Christians aren't all together sure of this themselves.
It's one of those things most people just sweep under the rug.

When I was a Christian, I believed that everyone made a choice subconsciously. Kind of like listening to that little voice in your head.
The flaw in that one is that if everyone knew the choice and the consequences deep down, who in their right mind would go against Christianity?
I sure as hell wouldn't.
I mean why reject the 'truth' if it means spending eternity in Hell?

It really doesn't work any way you slice it in my opinion...

So the problem seems to be not in accepting the truth or good/evil, but in communication errors and a lack of knowledge.
And what kind of perfect omnipotent God would allow this?



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 05:26 PM
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Very good question ..And I gave a star for your answer Dr Strangecraft ..it is possible ...I have never really looked it in that way before ..is very interesting though ...although I know some have taught otherwise on those passages ..sometimes things are not as clear cut and dried as we would like to believe ...so you never know ..




The word says if you have LOVE you have GOD ..
Because God is love ....

I believe somehow some way those who have LOVE (like real LOVE not just able to say the words love ..but gives of themselves to others ) ...will COME TO KNOW HIM before their time is up ..whether they are from some other religion or not .
The spirit can work anytime in anyway without us even ..
And even if someone kills themselves (Please dont do that though because I COULD BE VERY WRONG not to mention then you will have murder on your hands as well ..murdering your own self is considered murder) ..I believe God in his mercy gives them a few minutes with him before they even pass on ...Even if it is just a second before death ...we know not what happens between God and man in the spirit to spirit talks ......*(Look how many near death experiences there are ) ....you never know what takes place prior to death in that split second ..a split second could be a whole day with the Lord in the spirit ......
The Lord comes to me in dreams and I learn ALOT in from just a dream .
And the word even says in dreams and visions he talks to man because thats when men will hear him (we are all so busy we do not listen to him)
So he could give them all dreams and visions telling them about Christ ..


Remember the ass that spoke directly to Paul ....I mean it could happen to someone in an indian village where they do not even see anyone from the outside world ....



[edit on 9-10-2008 by Simplynoone]



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 09:58 PM
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If god exists, I think we all agree that knowing god transcends religion.

That said, It seems obvious to me that one need not know JC at all.


I guess you only need be a deist to go to the big pearly gates.



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 10:52 PM
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My grandmother had stopped talking to my sister because of what you just asked. My Gma thinks that everyone including peaceful Tibetan monks are going to hell..so she stopped calling my Sis. Crazy of religion is supposed to bring us together but usually ends up tearing us apart?



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 11:11 PM
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I personally do not believe that any of us know who is going to hell and who isnt .....and its really none of our business ..
Should we warn others about hell YES WE SHOULD ..hell is a real place and the wages of sin is death ...and so yes any one of us could go to hell .......even some of us who believe in Christ ..he could say LOOK I NEVER EVEN KNEW YOU ..away with you .....
The bible says that God will have mercy on who God will have mercy on .
And many who are last will be first and many first will be last ..
How can any of us know who is going to hell and who isnt ?
God could at any time bring someone to him that we thought was for sure going to go to hell ...
I know people who have gotten so cold and so rotten to core that I personally did not see any chance that they could ever change ..And THEY DID >>just one day out of the blue ..they got close to the Lord and it changed their whole life ...


Any one of us could end up in hell ..
We should all watch our steps,words,deeds and our judgements ..because the way we judge is how we shall be judged ....thats what the word says ..



About Monks ...I was thinking about them last night ...although it is honorable they set themselves apart as chaste before God ..I have to wonder why ...they are not doing anything grand for God just by saving themselves as they are ..all locked away from the lost world where the real work is ...(I am not saying they will go to hell) I am saying that it seems a bit selfish of them and looks alot like someone who is seeking to save their own lives and only concerned with their own well being .....and not concerned with the lives of others ...Or they would be OUT HERE doing the will of the father ..by helping to bring lost souls to the Lord Jesus Christ ..
I know now it sounds like I am judging them (maybe it is in a way ) ..II dont believe it is judging them though it is just an observation of the way they are living and wondering what good can come from it other than their own personal salvations ...........



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by jon1
The thing is, no one really knows the answer to this one.
I believe that we are all given the chance to accept jesus when we die and go before him. that way we all have a chance.
This answer is good for people who are worried if members of thier family die and wonder if they have gone to heaven or not.


THis is an attitude I've heard so many Christians proport--if it's true that we have the chance to accept Jesus after we die then why is it so important that we accept him before we die?

So many lives could have been saved--I mean saved here on Earth--if that theory was actually put into practice.



posted on Oct, 9 2008 @ 11:29 PM
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All I need to say is Jesus is the way!

I dont know about this clip lol Oprah is a tool.

Here




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