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Stephen Hawking is Wrong!

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posted on Mar, 25 2004 @ 09:26 AM
In 1997, cosmologists Stephen Hawking, Kip Thorne, and John Preskill made a bet about what happens to a black hole when material is sucked into it. Do the characteristics of the particles somehow change the black hole so that a record of information is maintained? Or is all the information destroyed? A new solution based on string theory predicts that material sucked into the black hole is preserved as a tangle of strings, which fills its core to its surface. In theory, a black hole could be traced back to its original condition by following the trail of material consumed. Stephen Hawking and Kip Thorne need to pay up.

Hawking’s research suggested that the particles have no effect whatsoever. But his theory violated the laws of quantum mechanics and created a contradiction known as the “information paradox.”

“I think that most people gave up on the idea that information was destroyed once the idea of string theory rose to prominence in 1995,” Mathur said. “It’s just that nobody has been able to prove that the information survives before now.”

Since Mathur’s conjecture suggests that strings continue to exist inside the black hole, and the nature of the strings depends on the particles that made up the original source material, then each black hole is as unique as are the stars, planets, or galaxy that formed it. The strings from any subsequent material that enters the black hole would remain traceable as well.

That means a black hole can be traced back to its original conditions, and information survives.

This research was supported in part by the U.S. Department of Energy.


posted on Mar, 25 2004 @ 09:34 AM
Interesting idea, but keep in mind that it's based on a conjecture, a unproven assumption. Evidence of string theory still has to be found, although mathematically string theory has become a lot more solid over the years.

posted on Mar, 25 2004 @ 09:34 AM
very, very awesome. nice find.... and is anyone else thinking what i'm thinking? if we could find a way to make controled quantum black holes we would ahve a major innovation in harddrive space... just, we'd need to be able to get the info out somehow... hmmm

posted on Mar, 25 2004 @ 09:42 AM
Does this mean that if you could expel the material in a black hole it would take on it’s original form? If a black hole consumed some galaxy would that galaxy reform upon escaping the black hole? How weird is that!

posted on Mar, 25 2004 @ 09:50 AM
If the material retained it’s original form this would lend credence to my Big Bang Cycle Theory.

posted on Mar, 26 2004 @ 10:00 AM
Amrit Sorli, Kusum Sorli
SpaceLife Institute, Podere San Giorgio 16
53012, Chiusdino (SI), Italy

Cosmic Dynamics And Evolution Of Life

The idea that evolution could be a universal process is based on several discoveries. Some experiments show that the bodily functions of living organisms are directly related to the gravitational potential of cosmic space. Universal space is the same throughout the whole universe and could play an active role in the evolution of life.
Basic organic molecules that are needed for the development of life have been discovered within the observable cosmic space. The whole universe is in a phase of chemical evolution. Many planets similar to our own have been discovered. Chemical evolution could also develop into biological evolution there.
It seems that the evolution of life is a continuation of the evolution of the universe.

Key words: space, matter, dynamic equilibrium, evolution, entropy, Einstein

Einstein emphasizes in his work (1918-1930) that space has its physical properties; gravitational force was attributed to space. He says: No space or portion of space (can be conceived of) without gravitational potentials; for these give it its metrical properties without which is not thinkable at all. The existence of the gravitational field is directly bound up with the existence of the space (1).
He came to conclusion that space can be the origin of the matter. In his article “The Concept of Space” in Nature (1930) he would say: We have now come to the conclusion that space is the primary thing and matter only secondary; we may say that space, in revenge for its former inferior position, is now eating up the matter (2).
In his book “Einstein and the Ether” Ludwik Costro comments: What a fundamental change in Einstein’s views! Having started from denial of the existence of space and time, he finally came to the conclusion that four-dimensional space (the space-time continuum) constitutes a reality ontologically primary even to matter. At this point, he believed that matter was born from space-time (3).
According to the first law of thermodynamics one can assume that in the universe energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can be transformed; the sum of the energy of matter and the energy of space is always constant: E matter (Em) + E space (Es) = E constant (Ek). In the first moment after the big bang Em = 0, Es = Ek. In the subsequent moments Es transforms into Em, and the transformation is over when Es and Em are balanced: Es = Em (Es = Ek/2, Em = Ek/2). With the formation of black holes, the transformation of Em into Es starts, Em is falling towards zero (Em --> 0), Es is rising towards Ek (Es --> Ek). With the transformation of matter into space the amount of energy of space is increasing. This process increases the gravitational forces between galaxies. The speed of expansion of the universe is decreasing, at a certain point the expansion stops and the universe starts to collapse into an enormous black hole that then explodes into a new big bang. Big bangs are cyclic (4).
Cyclic universe is predicted by the cosmologic theory of Turok and Steinhardt (5). Kompanichenko came to the same conclusion by studying how stars and planetary systems have been formed (6).
Also in a "stationary model" space and matter are in dynamic equilibrium. Matter is disappearing into space through black holes and reappearing in white holes. A black hole transforms the energy of matter (Em) into the energy of space (Es) and creates a non-equilibrium; around the black hole the amount of Es increases, while the amount of Em decreases. When this non-equilibrium reaches its maximum at a certain distance from the black hole its sister "white hole" is born; Es then begins transforming through the white hole back into Em until the energies of Es and Em in the area around the "sisters" reach equilibrium. The original idea of the transportation of Em through a kind of tunnel between a black hole and a white hole was developed by Einstein and Rosen.
Universe is a system in a dynamic equilibrium (further on only DE) that recreates itself. The total entropy of the universe sums to zero. The increase of the entropy of the matter after big bang or white hole is only temporary; it is renewed through the cyclic transformation "matter--space--matter--space".
DE is a basic universal law. DE between gravitational and tangential forces make it possible for planets to orbit around the sun, the water circulation "ocean--evaporation--clouds--rain--rivers--ocean" is in DE, life chains of fauna and flora are in DE.
The idea of the universe as a self-renewing system is entering the current scientific thought:
"From a principally group theoretic argument of Rowlands and Cullerne outlined below, it follows: A) that the known experimentally validated quantizations of the elementary particles for the strong, electromagnetic, and weak forcefields, are exactly the parametric values that ensure compatibility between quantum mechanics and general relativity, and
B) that the origin of the quantum material universe or means by which Everything can be derived from Nothing, is a Self-creation corresponding to the unstable critical point/ material phase transition from which the 3+1 spacetime field and its sources/sinks, the elementary particles, emerge. Such an emergence thus defines exactly what we mean by "elementary particles" in accordance with the criterion laid down by K.G. Wilson's renormalization group methodology concerning the critical phenomena of material phase transitions, for which he received the Nobel Prize" (7).
"Gravity conserves entropy; for example, in the cosmic gravitational collapse of the "Big Crunch", the total heat loss and entropy of the Universe is reversed; in such a case, the total entropy of the Universe sums to zero. Gravity replaces positive spatial entropy with a metrically equivalent positive temporal entropy; spatial expansion is reduced because it funds the temporal component of the total entropy equation" (8).
In the self-renewing universe evolution of life is a consistent part of cosmic evolution. It can be understood as a process that is continuously developing towards a total entropy of the universe that sums to zero. The relationship between life as a continuous negentropic process and the zero entropy of the universe can be described using the following equation:

Y = f (X)

Y stands for the evolution of life
X stands for a total entropy of the universe that sums to zero

entropy diagram

According to the understanding above the evolution of life is a consistent part of the evolution of the universe and occurs in the whole universe. Evolution on the planet Earth is a part of a wider universal process.

Materials and Methods
This idea is supported by the discovery of basic organic molecules necessary for the development of life in the whole of observable space. Universal space is in the phase of chemical evolution which on the earth and similar planets has continued into biological evolution (9).
Several experiments confirm that functioning of living organism is related to the gravitational field, which means to the universal space.
Spaceflight induces a cephalad redistribution of fluid volume and blood flow within the human body and space motion sickness, which is a problem during first few days of spaceflight, could be related to these changes in fluid status and in blood flow of the cerebrum and vestibular system (10).
In weightlessness there is a decreased activity of spinal ganglia neurons of the hypothalamic nuclei producing arginine, vasopressin and growth hormone releasing factor. Structural changes of the somatosensory cortex and spinal ganglia suggest a decreased afferent flow to the somatosensory cortex in microgravity. The results characterise the mechanisms of structural adaptation to a decreased afferent flow in microgravity by the neurons in the hemisphere cortex and brain stem nuclei. So, under microgravity there is a neuron hypoactivity (11).
Experiment carried out at the University of Lubiana, Slovenia in 1987-1988 with Californian worms (Latin name is: Lumbricus Teresticus) shows that the weight of living Californian Worms is greater than of the same dead ones; gravitational force of the cosmic space is stronger on the living worms than on the same dead ones (12).
Research done by Penrose and Hameroff suggest that the force of quantum gravity acting on the mass of neurones within the brain may be responsible for the emergence of consciousness. The process is fundamentally related to the influence of quantum gravity on microtubule networks within the neurones (13,14) .

It seems that universal space is the origin of the material universe as well as of life and human consciousness. In the universe there are many solar systems with planets similar to ours. Life could also have developed there.
Kompanichenko says: Approximately four billion years ago, living systems appeared on Earth and formed the superstructure over the lower organized geochemical systems. The simplest organisms were characterized by availability of unique mechanism that permitted them to transform actions from outside world and to return strengthened /expedient counteraction back into the environment. Giving an energetic profit from this exchange, living beings in fact extract free energy from the environment and accumulate it. The forms of life which lost the ability for the active extraction, in the long run were eliminated by natural selection. Using one more unique quality - regular self-renovation, living system step-by-step complicated and transformed the planetary medium into an environment. The extraordinary complicated human civilization is the top of this process. Both animate and inanimate natural systems of the universe are interrelated by the deepest universal processes and regularities. This shows unity of nature and allows us to support the opinion that life should be the widespread phenomenon in the cosmos (15).

Some current cosmological models consider the universe as a self-renewing system with total entropy that sums to zero. According to this understanding of the universe, evolution of life is a consistent part of cosmic evolution. All over the universe life is developing towards conscious species. Probably we are not alone in this vast universe.

Amrit Sorli, Kusum Sorli

1. Einstein A. (1920). Ather and Relativitatstheorie. J. Springer, Berlin, 4.
2. Einstein A. (1930). The Concept Of Space. Nature, 125, 897-898.
3. Kostro L. (2000). Einstein And The Ether. Aperion, 113.
4. Sorli A. (1990). Konec Casa. (The End of Time). Slovenia, Ljubljana, 11-19.
5. Steinhardt, P. J. ,Turok, N., A cyclic model of the universe. Sciencexpress,
6. Kompanichenko V. (2002). Non-equilibrium State of Stars and Dichotomous Formation of Planetary Systems.
PGS Publisher, Russia, Khabarovsk
7. Marcer P. (2003). The Origin of Matter and how 3+1 spacetime came to be: the Universe, the Nothing that becomes Everything! International Symposium on Computing and Anticipatory Systems, Liege Belgium, August 2003,
8. Gowan J.A. (2003). Conservation/Entropy Domains of Free and Bound Energy.
9. Mason S. (1991). Chemical Evolution: Origin of the Elements, Molecules, and Living Systems, Oxford University Press
10. US Army (1993). Madigan Army Medical Centre, Tacoma, Washington “ Cerebral blood velocity and other cardiovascular responses to 2 days head down tilt. Journal of Applied Physiology. 74 (1): 319-25.
11. Krasnov IB.(1994). Institute of Biomedical Problems, Moscow, Russia. “Gravitational neuromorphology”,
Advances in Space Biology and Medicine 4: 85-110.
12. Sorli A.(2001). Additional Roundness of Space-Time and Unknown Vacuum Energies in Living Organisms,
Frontier Perspectives. 10 (2)
13. Penrose R. (1994). 'Shadows of the Mind' (Oxford), 377-391.
14. Hameroff S. (1994). 'Quantum Coherence in Microtubules: A Neural Basis for Emergent Consciousness?'
Journal of Consciousness Studies 1 (1), 91-118.
15. Kompanichenko V. (2003). Distinctive Properties of Biological Systems: The All-Around Comparison with Other Natural Systems. Frontier Perspectives, 12 (1)

posted on Mar, 26 2004 @ 11:31 AM
just read "focault's pendulum" when hes talking about the pendulum. that would explain this theory.

(im not sure if i got that book name correct, will repost later with author and correct name of book. i know its a international bestseller though)

posted on Mar, 26 2004 @ 03:32 PM
The author is Umberto Eco from Italy.

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