Originally posted by WestPoint23


China is almost surrounded with US bases. In the West we can target them from Afghanistan and other Central Asian countries. Then there is Diego Garcia, Australia, Guam, Hawaii, Okinawa, Japan, South Korea and Alaska. Not to mention the five 4.5 acre floating bases, which if positioned and defended properly, that can influence the outcome.

Man, you lose what little credability you have left each day round here. Afghanistan has US airbases INSIDE it but yet your all conquoring NATO forces are getting 'red assed' off some flea bitten goat heardeing Taliban fighters wearing flip-flops

F-35 lightenings seem to be ideal for killing Afghan wedding parties rather than bearded terrorists. Under less that 5% load your tech and intel still fails you

West Point, what you fail to see is the obvious failure of these systems against 'practically nothing' as a threat in Afghanistan and Iraq today. Against the Chinese or Russians you Network-Centric Warfare machine would barf like a 386 with a 60 meg hard drive trying to download Hi-Def streaming porn across a dial up modem.

You sit here and quote tests of AEGIS against your own single unmanoeuverable 80s tech dummies and tell us that swarms of Brahmos and Sunburns are now obsolete. Get real!

Fact is, even North Korea holds sway over the US and it's allies. there's so much 60's tech artillery pointing at Seoul, even a full out US shock and awe attack, we'd smell the buring rice from S Korea over here before your video game even begun.

Basically the US wouldn't be able to defeat Iran, India, China or Russia....

Hell, let's throw in the French and Italians ...they'd give you a run for your money!

Your understanding of military doctrine is totally one dimensional and as shallow as sunshower puddle!

Originally posted by hadjimagnet
They're a repressive regime, which you speak so highly of. They are polluting themselves off their own land.


[edit on 13-10-2008 by hadjimagnet]

absolutely true, i despise their government, but while the US was #ing around in Iraq they began to colonize Africa and spending their Dollars and gaining lots of influence, we should focus on that sort of things and stop them, yes..

To thoese who think China is "30-50" years begind America, that is complete bunk. Amazing how ill informed alot of people are, they read a few headlines somwhere and call pass themeselves off as experts on China and her technology.
FYI - China does produce most of the worlds semiconductors, the flatscreens used by the US military are built in China, Intel is building a mjor CPU factory in China, Microsofts most productive Think Tank is in Shanghai .......and the list goes on and on.

Westpoint, I respect your points of arguments, you are the only one arguing against me who doesn't come off as a hick.

I do think that any war with China will irrevocably damage the US military. This isn't WWII where planes and ships come off a mass production assembly line. Once those assets are lost they are gone and cannot be replaced.

The U.S. controls the oceans. Therefore, the U.S. controls the flow of oil. Therefore, the U.S. controls the world.

The only way for China to overcome this would be to develop and massive, advanced navy. And that is very unlikely to happen in the next 20 years.

A conflict between the U.S. and China would never happen because each side has too much to lose economically speaking.

Originally posted by RFBurns
Tough to answer that since it is most likely they would not publish their best pieces of hardware and technology out in the open.

But yes they have had plenty of time to develop some pretty nasty things.

The thing to keep in mind tho is that China is heavily involved in a world market place. They are making too much mula to want to kill the hand that feeds them.

Cheers!!!!

China doesnt depend on anyone anymore..this isnt the 1970's.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
The U.S. controls the oceans. Therefore, the U.S. controls the flow of oil. Therefore, the U.S. controls the world.

The only way for China to overcome this would be to develop and massive, advanced navy. And that is very unlikely to happen in the next 20 years.

A conflict between the U.S. and China would never happen because each side has too much to lose economically speaking.

there wouldnt be any flow of oil if the countries supplying it stopped transfering it across international waters and the usa!!

Originally posted by RussiaUSA

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
The U.S. controls the oceans. Therefore, the U.S. controls the flow of oil. Therefore, the U.S. controls the world.

The only way for China to overcome this would be to develop and massive, advanced navy. And that is very unlikely to happen in the next 20 years.

A conflict between the U.S. and China would never happen because each side has too much to lose economically speaking.

there wouldnt be any flow of oil if the countries supplying it stopped transfering it across international waters and the usa!!

USA gets the majority of its oil from Canada and Mexico so...

sorry to burst your bubble there RussiaUSA.

Originally posted by vonvitt
there wouldnt be any flow of oil if the countries supplying it stopped transfering it across international waters and the usa!!

USA gets the majority of its oil from Canada and Mexico so...

sorry to burst your bubble there RussiaUSA.

LOL Mr Smartass, which is why America has gone to war in the Middle East to secure it's oil supply. The biggest supply in the world lies in Saudi Arabia. If America lost just 5% of it's oil supply it would be disasterous, let alone the 20%+ it gets from the Mid-East. If you actually knew anything maybe we wouldn't be laughing at you. Then again American education is ranked the lowest in the Western World.

Originally posted by rogue1
I do think that any war with China will irrevocably damage the US military.

It's cost both in term of hardware and lives, to say nothing of other consequences, will be severe. Both sides will suffer, as will much of the world. For all the hypothetical discussion we have I really don't wish to find out how my arguments will hold up in an actual conflict.

Originally posted by rogue1
This isn't WWII where planes and ships come off a mass production assembly line. Once those assets are lost they are gone and cannot be replaced.

They can be replaced but not without dramatic change in the social and political arena. Our society and daily life has not really felt the impact of a conflict the way we did in WWII. Our industrial base has not really been forced to focus the overwhelming majority of its output to the military sector. Our production capacity, in virtually all areas has gone down. Our bureaucratic system when it comes to such issues is so inefficient it's not even funny. Now these things can change, but not overnight.

Originally posted by vonvitt

Originally posted by RussiaUSA

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
The U.S. controls the oceans. Therefore, the U.S. controls the flow of oil. Therefore, the U.S. controls the world.

The only way for China to overcome this would be to develop and massive, advanced navy. And that is very unlikely to happen in the next 20 years.

A conflict between the U.S. and China would never happen because each side has too much to lose economically speaking.

there wouldnt be any flow of oil if the countries supplying it stopped transfering it across international waters and the usa!!

USA gets the majority of its oil from Canada and Mexico so...

sorry to burst your bubble there RussiaUSA.

okay....russia wont be affected since they will use all of theirs considering the fact its on their territory..plus europe is russia's large customer for oil and so is china. so china also wont be affected by the destroyed pipelines in the ocean..europe neither lol. australia will. not japan....russian navy will blow the angry americans out of their territory anyways..sorry to bust your bubblegum.

us has a slight upper hand at the moment,but soon china will dominate world politics. a booming, expanding economy. them, russia, iran, france would be a possible "new" block.
the red dragon is awakening

okay....russia wont be affected since they will use all of theirs considering the fact its on their territory..plus europe is russia's large customer for oil and so is china. so china also wont be affected by the destroyed pipelines in the ocean..europe neither lol. australia will. not japan....russian navy will blow the angry americans out of their territory anyways..sorry to bust your bubblegum.

Russia won't be affected because they will bankrupt the largest, and one of the only industries keeping their economy afloat?
China won't be affected by Russia no longer having spare oil to ship to them?
Oceanic pipelines only affect Australia?
Japan, an island-country, would not be affected by the stop of oil?

..

Err.

Ehem. the question is, "how advanced is the chinese army?", not if they can win a war against this or invade that country.

If I may state my opinion, I'd say the Chinese Army has the potential to become on par with most Western forces in that they already have the infrastructure for massive production in place to create the circuitry and electronic components needed to manufacture modern weapons like the West. Quality-wise, methinks this so-called crap that we're all seeing from China is what they're selling to the world because everyone wants to buy cheap, although I think they can develop and produce milspec stuff if they need to. If China was to engage in a war against anyone, they wouldn't go at it quite as openly as we'd all expect. But they don't really need to go to war; I mean, who would want to go to war when they can have the world just by doing what they do best. Infiltrate. Assimilate. Acquire.

(I for one salute our chinese overlords, coming soon at the chinatown closest to your location)

I think the real question we need to ask ourselves is if we open up the circuitry on our most advanced "toys" missiles, tanks, etc.. what would it say?

Made in Cina

or

Made in the USA?

its funny to see how people's definition of "advanced" for china is to beat the US in an all out war physically (aside from using nukes)

the argument here is basically like: if the US can beat china in an all out physical war, then the chinese army is not advanced.

but when u think about this argument... i mean, to be honest, which nation on earth currently can beat the US in an all out physical war?

that doesnt mean every nation is not advanced though.. i mean what kind of defination or degree is considered "advanced" anyways?

I mean, 1 on 1, who can acutally beat china, as in really really totally physically own china? apart from.. maybe.. the US (or russia? meh..)

so what's the defination for being "advanced"?

[edit on 10/22/2008 by warset]

a lot people here would consider britain to be advanced in military

ok lets put down the figure.. the entire british force currently has a total of less than 400 challenger 2 tanks...
thats less than even the number of bullastic missiles china has aimed at taiwan..

but the US on the other hand.. has about 7500 Abrams..

its not hard to do the math... 7500 rock throwers > 400 british tanks...

Well, few words + & - about army of PRC
+:
Really huge army of bloody fanatic chinese people.

-:
old weapons: they still use weapons produced in 1960-1970 in USSR or their chinese analogs. Even the fact that China buy 50% of all export Russian weapons, it is still far not enough to make it modern equiped.

but no doubt it is strong enough to make problems to any country in the world. and no doubt one day it will make these problems.

Power of army is a function of mood, number of soldiers, equipment, education of officers, than i would say that army of PRC is not the leader, but very very close to US.