The world is a lot weirder than even we on this board may take it to be.

Naturally, many on ATS and in the "mainstream" find their faith in Christ to somehow be in conflict with the possible existences of the boogeymen, mothmen, shadowmen, and little green men that we seem so inexplicably fascinated by. I freely admit that my relationship to God and faith in the Bible is often a sort of knee-jerk censor or BS-meter to what I read on sites like this. This isn't a bad thing, so long as things are seriously considered in spite of any knee-jerk reaction.

A wise dead greek guy said something to the effect of "Read never to contradict, but to understand and comprehend." That's how I personally try to swallow some of the bizarre claims that pop up all over the world. I am wholly convinced that many of them are true -- they HAVE to be true. I have seen them and sensed them and know too many honest people who have also seen or sensed them.

But there are so many obscurities which seem to confict with my faith. At first glance, anyway. I without a doubt consider many of these animals and entities discussed on this board and others to be demonic (I am thinking primarily of ghosts, shadowmen, greys, reptilians, mothman, etc. Dinos and such I consider real.)

I am completely aware that such a posit is FAR from original. Most Christians and believers of other faiths have come to or at least considered such a conclusion well before I was even born (1984).

What I am really wanting to point out is that the existence of such entities and occurences are NOT NECESSARILY BAD THINGS for the Christian. The typical fundamentalist response is "Oh they're all demonic -- the Enemy doing whatever he can to distract us from the Lord." And they may well be on to something with that logic; in fact, I totally agree. If such entities are demonic, that's their only purpose -- to distract us from our Creator and Savior.

Yet while not all things are good, all things can be used for good. That is, the existence of the paranormal and unexplained has caused many people otherwise unconcerned with or in denial of the very spiritual world which interweaves this one now believe in it. People I know which philosophically loathe the idea of God are by their own reasonableness convinced that a god exists.

For this reason I actually enjoy taking friends whom I have trouble witnessing to, to a ghostly apparition in a graveyard in Portland, Oregon. It has been an extraordinary opportunity to shatter preconcieved notions of naturalism and antispiritual materialism in many.

So, I'm not sure how to wind this post up except with a couple items of advice.

1) To Christian readers, do not become too deeply interested in such matters as mothmen, shadowmen, ghosts, etc., for they may only serve one purpose: to demonstrate the very real existence of the spiritual to skeptics and strict naturalists.

2) To those who believe in anomalous entities but deny God, I urge you to consider the possibility of a personal God. I urge you to do so with the fairness, rationality, reasonableness, and open mind which brought you to realize that ghosts and other spooks really do exist. Furthermore, seek inwardly to realize what your true motivation is in researching something like chupacabra or mothman. While I'll agree they are GREATLY fascinating and exciting topics, what usable end does it serve? Think of this as the "So what" clause of my post -- what would it really matter if moth man or ghosts exist? From my experience, only that the spiritual world is real.

OK, thought I'd rant a bit -- hopefully someone enjoyed it.

Interesting post.

Thanks for sharing.

I agree that we should approach all subjects with an unobstructed view. Too often we let our preconceived notions of what is true and what isn't prevent us from seeing what is really there. Anti-Christian's typically have had a very negative experience associated with it due to misguided people. Rigid doctrine only serves a purpose so long though. It provides stability and helps us to maintain a moral code. But sooner or later (hopefully sooner) people will develop to the point of seeking more than they are. This is moving away from the self and towards the whole: towards unity with God. Most religions point us in this direction. There is one difference though between Christ and other great teachers. He was the Messiah. The chosen one to turn the tables back toward unity through love and ultimate sacrifice. This is what Christians should aspire to be... like Christ. Loving and accepting. Love is unconditional by nature and hence removes polarity consciousness. There is no right or wrong in love, it absorbs all and accepts everything just as it is. Stepping into Love is choosing to make this your path. It is accomplished through thought and action towards others and yourself. Forgiveness and acceptance. This is what Christ represents and he has most graciously opened the door to ANY and ALL who are align there will with his.

As for the rest, I believe that all perspectives are valid, but where you choose to put your body, mind and spirit in space and time will direct your path. Look for ways to integrate information, rather than search or focus on contradictions. Are aliens demonic or of the "negative" polarity. Probably some of them are, some are probably not. Most things are gradients, not dichotomous (black or white) (good or bad).

I better quit. It's gettin' late.

Peace ALL,

+Jammer

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The spiritual directs the physical, not the other way around. :

3)Someone who fully excepts the existance of god father and giver of life, and also fully excepts the possibilities of the mothman, powobanga, chupacabra, bigfoot, reptoids, and many more, yet he does not fear god nor the unknown beasts. not to say that he wouldn't piss himself if bigfoot caught him on a full bladder, but it may be more just a pissing of joy, and thankfulness to see one of god's most elusive and mighty smelly creatures. for some of god's creature may kill and suck the red veno until death, but death is nothing to fear it is freedom and the climax to life. and ofcourse there is no reason to fear god the father either because he will give us life once again, whether it be on mother earth or sexy venus, or......................

Additionally, I think anyone who's pentecostal or has been in the room when the Spirit comes in HAS to be open to this sort of stuff.

Interestingly, a lot of Pentecostal leadership that I've talked to is VERY much open to and actively believes in the presence of ghosts and all this. Obviously since its such a fruitless thing to preach about, we don't hear sermons on this stuff. Still fun to read on occasion though.

I have never had a problem with believeing in God and also believeing in the entities you described. Since God created all, including 'Satan', then it doesn't need such a leap of faith to realise that God also created Bigfoot, Nessie etc (assuming they exist in the first place).

Originally posted by Cascadian1
For this reason I actually enjoy taking friends whom I have trouble witnessing to, to a ghostly apparition in a graveyard in Portland, Oregon. It has been an extraordinary opportunity to shatter preconcieved notions of naturalism and antispiritual materialism in many.

You mean you can virtually guarantee this ghost will appear ? What happens if it doesn't ? does that mean that your witnessing fails ?

I live about 30 miles from Portland, although the only places I have been to there have been the INS federal building and Powells bookshop. Despite living in quite a few 'old' houses in the past - one from the 1600's - I have only once experienced what I would consider a 'ghostly' happening. I would certainly be interested in seeing a ghost. Preferably not that thing in the 'Check this out' thread though

[Edited on 25-3-2004 by Pisky]

Pisky--

I don't bring them there saying "see, I will prove that the spiritual exists." I bring them up there with the idea that it's kinda fun and different. I'm not the one to say "see I toldja so!"

We call it the Dancing Mary. It's in the Skyline Cemetary off of Barnes, I think (whatever road Burnside turns into in the west hills). It's a statue of Mary atop a hill which appears to dance at night. Usually we pull up just off the road and watch it from there (about 50 yards away maybe). It's really trippy, only happens at night. I've also driven up closer to it and seen its head move slightly. Strangest thing is, people see it do the same little moves at the same time... if it were just an optical illusion then you'd expect one person to see its hips moving while another sees its arms flailing.... but that's not what you get at all... we all see the same thing at the same time!

There's a few other freaky things about that graveyard I won't share now, lest it be spoiled.

Oh and regarding Bigfoot and Nessie -- those are creatures I have little problems believing in. They seem organic and natural enough (heck Nessie's just a dino, right?). It's the ghosts and more "spooky" things that sometimes 'clash' with the modernistic Christian worldview. (yay for being a postmodern! )

I'm a Christian and have had experiences with so called "aliens" have a picture I took of a "gnomish" creature, and believe there are living dinosaurs today.
The dinosaur issue is easy: Most perished in the flood. The few survivors on the ark never established a firm foothold due to climactic changes, and due to their being hunted as "dragons." Theres too many sightings & photos of strange creatures for Christians to dismiss this all as a hoax. Look at some of the "visions" recorded in the Bible. Tell me Ezekiel 1 doesn't describe a UFO type thing along with wierd creatures we don't see every day in the woods!

i agree and i really enjoyed reeding that. I think that my faith in God actually increases my acceptance of such things.

IQkid -- yeah, I'm the same way. I think most ghost and psychic crap would be totally lost on me if I didn't have God. I think all I'd buy in to would be UFO's.

I was chatting with a friend last night whom I believe has been demonically assaulted for most of her life and she told me of a time in her youth where when she got really angry (usually with parents) things would tip over near her without being touched. Once she yelled "I hate you" at her mother and left the room -- on her way out she passed a big bookshelf that tipped over without any physical explanation. Freaky. But we have power over such forces through Christ!


starcrystal, care to post your gnomish picture?