ACORN raided in Nevada vote fraud probe

Originally posted by Sublime620
reply to post by nyk537

 

I would love to see anyone somehow link this to Obama. I'm sure I'll hear Rush Limbaugh try... so I guess I'll just wait for that.

Obama was a lawyer for Acorn.
Acorn gets funding from ALL taxpayers.
Acorn only organizes votes for democrats.
People need to go to prison, starting with Obama then Pelosi and her gang of thieves.

reply to post by SectionEight


Right... you're all the sudden calling for political reform?

There have been crooks in the White House for 8 years, and now ethics matter? You can't even tie Obama to this enough to indict him in court.

Drop it already or produce something worth talking about.

Battle Born!!!!!! The Nevadans are on task!

Sad that anyone would stoop to that level. Desperation and suspect motives and associations can indicate poor character and dishonesty.

Frankly, I'm very disappointed to discover allegations that are actually true. I thought Obama may have been getting a "bad shake". After extensive research, I've found I cannot support him.

Some of the "rumours" were false, but many are true. Ayers, for instance. Obama is not responsible when he was eight, but he is responsible as an adult.

Furthermore, I don't like the way he is messing with kids minds. They sound and look like little communist kids. They could have had them singing about freedom, voting and independence to choose. Using your mind to investigate both candidates, etc. No, something is very wrong with the whole "set-up".

Neither of the candidates are perfect, but if we are going to take back our country, we at least need honesty, commitment and, most of all; the ability to admit when you're wrong.

Many of us were taught that admitting you are wrong is a weakness. Many of us, grew out of it. Most of all, however, we arn't running for President. We can afford to be petty, a president doesn't have that luxury.

reply to post by Sublime620


I'm sure you'd love to see this topic dropped.

However ...

Did you rail against "voter fraud" in Florida in 2000? How about in Ohio in 2004? What may have happened in the past somehow excuses actual voter fraud in the present?

So, did it all of the sudden become OK in 2008 when proxies for your guy are caught doing it? Explain how 1597 out of 1600 false registrations happened without the knowledge of ACORN senior management in NV. You realize that means that the 3 real registrations must have been the mistakes that somehow slipped through. And now you expect all of us conspiracy theorists to believe that a nationawide orgainization like ACORN only has this problem in Nevada? Only the tip of the iceberg ...

BTW, you asked for linkage and it was pointed out that Obama was a lawyer for ACORN. That's plenty of linkage for most thinking people.

[edit on 10/8/2008 by centurion1211]

isn't this the same acorn pelosi wanted to give a few million to in the last bailout bill?

Originally posted by Fathom
isn't this the same acorn pelosi wanted to give a few million to in the last bailout bill?

A few BILLION. 20% of the $750 billion dollar package.
And without oversight.

kinda makes you sick, doesn't it?

ACORN ought to be declared a criminal organization and banned from receiving ANY government monies; federal, state, or local. And whoever backed ACORN receiving the monies from the 700 billion dollar bailout bill should be arrested, tried, and convicted for supporting a criminal organization with federal funds.

Originally posted by centurion1211
reply to post by Sublime620

 

I'm sure you'd love to see this topic dropped.

However ...

Did you rail against "voter fraud" in Florida in 2000? How about in Ohio in 2004? What may have happened in the past somehow excuses actual voter fraud in the present?
[edit on 10/8/2008 by centurion1211]

I like how you try and say it may have happened like it's up in the air, in order to try and make a stronger case for the voter fraud of ACORN.

They have e-mails between Republicans exchanging spreadsheets of people in Florida that they wanted to suppress, it's not a matter of if it happened it's a matter of how much. I mean ,I can link you to the e-mails and the spreadsheets if you want.

This ACORN deal is the same thing, and it's not going to stop. Republicans are going to continue to try and disenfranchise the minority vote with technicalities and fraud just like the Democrats are going to try and stuff the ballot box full of more people that don't exist or aren't registered.

reply to post by centurion1211


My guys? I have no connection to these guys. I don't know about them, I don't care about them. They should all be arrested and fined/jailed. I'm not sure exactly what their plan was, but someone needs to get to the bottom of it and investigate their organizations in other areas also.

Please, keep your accusations to yourself. And, unless you can tie Obama to this act, keep your partisan slander to yourself also.

Originally posted by Sublime620
Please, keep your accusations to yourself. And, unless you can tie Obama to this act, keep your partisan slander to yourself also.

Obama is getting the fraud votes, and therefore the political benefit, isn't that enough to tie Obama to this act?

Originally posted by Sublime620
reply to post by centurion1211

 

My guys? I have no connection to these guys. I don't know about them, I don't care about them. They should all be arrested and fined/jailed. I'm not sure exactly what their plan was, but someone needs to get to the bottom of it and investigate their organizations in other areas also.

Please, keep your accusations to yourself. And, unless you can tie Obama to this act, keep your partisan slander to yourself also.

I think you've defended them all enough to allow the term "your guy" to be used.

On the ACORN scandal, the news this morning is that it is spreading to Missouri and the key battleground state of Ohio, where people are claiming that ACORN hounded them to register as many as 72 times!

ACORN Fraud

"You can tell them you're registered as many times as you want - they do not care," said Lateala Goins, 21, who was subpoenaed.

"They will follow you to the buses, they will follow you home, it does not matter," she told The Post.

She added that she never put down an address on any of the registration forms, just her name.

A third subpoenaed voter, Freddie Johnson, 19, filled out registration cards 72 times over 18 months, officials said.

Ah, finally a possible explanation of how Obama beat Hillary - he took a page out of Chicago election history, using his pals at ACORN to fraudulently "vote early and often".





[edit on 10/9/2008 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by Sublime620
unless you can tie Obama to this act,

He was a lawyer for ACORN and he is benefiting from their fraud.
Considering that he was their lawyer, I'm sure he is very much
aware of at least some of the legal activities and intentions.

Working for this ACORN bunch is a good deal of his 'community organizer' time that he claims qualifys him to be POTUS.

That's about all that can be tied to Obama at this time that I'm aware of.

But I'll dig around and get back to ya!

edited to add - NY Post article Very informative.

Michelle Malkin (yes, right wing) has gathered together information about ACORNs illegal activities from a bunch of states. You could pass the time reading the info at the link.




[edit on 10/9/2008 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by wutone
Obama is getting the fraud votes, and therefore the political benefit, isn't that enough to tie Obama to this act?

In fairness, no. What Flyersfan said about being a lawyer for them and house speaker funding is more of a tie. I can see a group of people getting together to sway a candidate without directly working for them. Having worked for a few banks in the past, I can cite specific examples.

[edit on 9-10-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by wutone


No... Need an example?

The terrorist attack in 2001 was beneficial to the Republican party because it allowed them the power and trust to pass legislation that would have otherwise been declined.

Another example:

I am a major corporation. I fund one of the candidates because if he is elected, I believe he will deregulate in a few particular, beneficial areas. After I make my donation, I am caught committed fraud by unethical practices on my income statement and balance sheet.

Did the candidate really participate?

It may be enough to look into, but it's not a "tie". There is no real evidence of any misconduct. Just another 6 degrees of Keven Bacon type deal.



reply to post by centurion1211


I've defended ACORN? When? Please show me.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Ah, finally a possible explanation of how Obama beat Hillary - he took a page out of Chicago election history, using his pals at ACORN to fraudulently "vote early and often".

I'm going to have to AGAIN call you out on your repeated accusations that Obama is involved. It's the same bull#$%@ tactic played over and over. Accuse, accuse, accuse, until the name is defamed, the story is beaten to death, and the truth is so far buried that it doesn't even exist anymore. Then, once it all blows over, just move on to the next story like you didn't just spend a week accusing someone and defaming them over a false connection.

Once the Obama loves terrorists garbage finally gets debunked and fizzled out enough, people will just forget about it and move on to the next piece of twisted truth. Honestly, can you even sleep at night knowing you promote complete garbage?

reply to post by FlyersFan


I will reply to you in a different post. I feel it's important to give you a real reply with facts because I know you gather your information and make an informed decision. I do think you are too quick to jump on the bandwagon, but at least you research things. I haven't seen you post that Barrack is responsible for these acts, unlike a previous member I responded to in this post (centurion1211 !!!!!).

So just give me a few minutes to write this up.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Here's my understand of the situation, and correct me if I am wrong. It's tough to gather much detail because most sites I pull up are simply smearing and not stating facts (OMGz Acorn did a bad thing and Obama knows them!!!!!!!), and unfortunately, the news isn't much better.

Obama was not ACORN's lawyer. He wasn't on a permanent payroll. He was a co-litigator for ACORN (this is a one time deal) against the state of Illinois.

Inside Obama's Acorn

Obama and a team of Chicago attorneys won a 1995 suit forcing the state of Illinois to implement the federal “motor-voter” bill.

So, this is 13 years ago. He's not an employee of ACORN, he is just a co-litigator representing them in court (again, once). Here's what he was trying to get Illinois to adhere to:

The NVRA

Section 5 of the Act requires states to provide individuals with the opportunity to register to vote at the same time that they apply for a driver's license or seek to renew a driver's license, and requires the State to forward the completed application to the appropriate state of local election official.

Section 7 of the Act requires states to offer voter registration opportunities at all offices that provide public assistance and all offices that provide state-funded programs primarily engaged in providing services to persons with disabilities. Each applicant for any of these services, renewal of services, or address changes must be provided with a voter registration form of a declination form as well as assistance in completing the form and forwarding the completed application to the appropriate state or local election official.

Section 6 of the Act provides that citizens can register to vote by mail using mail-in-forms developed by each state and the Election Assistance Commission.

This entire piece of legislation is based around helping people, especially lower-income (oh, I know how some of us hate those lower-income folks) and disabled people to register to vote.

• Can register when getting a license.
  
• Places that help the disabled provide ability to register.
  
• Mail-in forms for people who, for whatever reason, are not able to make it out to register.

The next part in the article that "ties" Obama to ACORN is weak, at best.

Part of Obama’s work, it would appear, was to organize demonstrations, much in the mold of radical groups like Acorn.

Hinting that holding rallies makes you like a radical group. This is not a tie, but rather saying that his work was "like" what ACORN does because it involved holding rallies and demonstrations.

The article then goes on to detail a nice little anecdotal story of no significance:

Acorn demonstrators pushed over the metal detector and table used to screen visitors, backed police against the doors to the council chamber, and blocked late-arriving aldermen and city staff from entering the session... orchestrated by Acorn’s Madeleine Talbot... This was the woman who first drew Obama into his alliance with Acorn, and whose staff Obama helped train.

So, Acorn demonstrators went overboard, and the event was orchestrated by a woman who asked Obama to train her staff. How is this story of no significance?

Well, the story admits it themselves, but then tries to downplay its admittance of irrelevance afterwards:

Does that mean Obama himself schooled Acorn volunteers in disruptive “direct action?” Not necessarily. The City Council storming took place in 1997, years after Obama’s early organizing days.

Though it does say this (with no evidence offered up):

And in general, Obama seems to have been part of Acorn’s “inside baseball” strategy.

Nice little cheap shot with no actual proof. This is drive-by garbage.



So, here are the ties so far:

• He sued Illinois for Acorn to get a piece of Federal legislation enforced that helps people register to vote.
  
• He trained staff. The only story up until now that anyone cared about with Acorn was the unruly demonstration, that he had no part in. He trained the staff "years before" the event even happened.

Yes, that's all we have so far folks. Pretty weak "ties". I wouldn't hang my life on the balance of that thin thread.

Somehow it jumps to this:

With Obama having personally helped train a new cadre of Chicago Acorn leaders, by the time of Obama’s 2004 U.S. Senate campaign, Obama and Acorn were “old friends,” says Foulkes.

So they admit Obama's training likely didn't contribute to the unruly protest, but he's "old friends" with all of them? Again, no evidence is used to support this claim.

So along with the reservoir of political support that came to Obama through his close ties with Jeremiah Wright, Father Michael Pfleger, and other Chicago black churches, Chicago Acorn appears to have played a major role in Obama’s political advance.

Does anyone else seem to think that they will smear anyone in Chicago who he participated with to help clean up it's dirty streets? It's a dirty job, and there are bound to be some jaded people in that line of work. That doesn't take away from the overall purpose or goal.

Sure enough, a bit of digging into Obama’s years in the Illinois State Senate indicates strong concern with Acorn’s signature issues, as well as meetings with Acorn and the introduction by Obama of Acorn-friendly legislation on the living wage and banking practices. You begin to wonder whether, in his Springfield days, Obama might have best been characterized as “the Senator from Acorn.”

No evidence to back it up. Again, basically another entire paragraph dedicated to saying Obama is tied to Acorn with no actual facts to back it up.



Now onto your link (which I had actually read earlier).
Michelle Malkin

This left-wing group takes in 40 percent of its revenues from American taxpayers — you and me — and has leveraged nearly four decades of government subsidies to fund affiliates that promote the welfare state and undermine capitalism and self-reliance, some of which have been implicated in perpetuating illegal immigration and encouraging voter fraud.

Besides the end with voter fraud, the rest of the entire introduction requires you to, in essence, be Republican to agree with. Though, I am not sure I've seen that voter fraud has been shown in Illinois yet?

The article talks mostly about Obama being on boards that funded Acorn. It smears Acorn (agree with it or not, it's a smear) in order to make any connection with Obama look bad.

My guess with voter fraud:

Acorn committed these acts so that they would continue to receive funding. The better the job they do, the more funding they get. I can't really see how Acorn would have planned to get these fake people to vote. Can you?

What I can see is the organization signing all of these people up so that they have good numbers. Good numbers mean more money. More money means... well I don't need to explain what more money means to a bunch of conservatives.

So I am not all that sure about this group. Obviously the voter registration fraud is ridiculous (but notice it's voter registration fraud not voting fraud), but I am far less willing to accept that everything they have done in the past is evil - as much as these writers would love for us all to believe.

Most importantly, these articles only confirm my suspicion that there is absolutely no firm connection between Obama and Acorn. He is not actively involved with the group, and has not been for many years - over 13 years ago, briefly.

I need more than this to care. I don't mind investigations. What I mind is people running their mouths (centurion1211) that Obama is the one committing these acts, not Acorn. It's unfounded, and not true.

They'll just keep saying it until the steam runs out and then move onto the next piece of mud they can dig their hands into.

reply to post by Sublime620


In the end, does it matter if Obama is directly related? They are a liberal group pandering for Democratic votes. My questions:

1. How many other states are they doing this in?
2. Does this account for the latest poll numbers showing Obama's gains?

If they are found guilty, we could certainly be heading for another Supreme Court battle post-election this year.

reply to post by sos37


Well, I doesn't affect my opinion of the group itself whether or not Obama is connected. It certainly does, however, make a huge difference to the public whether or not he is connected; and it is quite relevant to discuss people throwing around half-truths to push an agenda.

As far as polls, I'm not sure if it would affect them. I assume it shouldn't, since polls are generally taken in samples pools that have no relation to voter registration. Possibly if people are getting multiple "votes" in the poll it could affect it. Seems that would be difficult though since most of the fake registrants had fake addresses and phone numbers.

We shall see, I suppose.

reply to post by Sublime620


What else can I say? You're always there when a liberal/democrat cause or issue needs you - legitimate or not. To try to say otherwise simply attempts to insult everyone's intelligence here at ATS.

The issue here is what looks like an expanding case of massive voter fraud by Obama's ACORN friends sweeping across the country. Even more worrrisome is that it is being uncovered in key states such as Ohio.

Time for even democrat "homers" to say enough is enough - unless they truly believe in the democrat/communist manfesto, "the ends justify the means".

It would be a lot easier to accept a winner from either party if the election did not appear to be fraudulent - before the election even takes place.

reply to post by centurion1211


I admit I am partisan, but I am no so partisan that it jades me into attacking the other party with spun, half-truth lies. I don't start thread after thread attacking McCain. I don't make any threads attacking McCain. Mostly, I just rebut lies, buzzwords, and spin about Obama. I even stick up for McCain when it gets ridiculous enough.

So don't try and control my argument. And certainly don't call me a "homer" and tell me it's time change my opinion on Obama. Keep your Limbaughish opinions to yourself.

[edit on 9-10-2008 by Sublime620]

reply to post by Sublime620


OK, so when is too much fraud by the democrats too much for even you?

Or is it all OK as long as it helps them win?