Tonights Town Hall Debate Discussion

Originally posted by Clark W. Griswold
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't hear McCain refer to himself as a maverick one time during that debate. Thank god! Last night, his catch all phrase was "My friend".

That's because Palin beat it to death during the VP debate. It was "my friends", "he doesn't get it" and "he doesn't understand" along with "I know how to do it". At least Obama didn't keep saying "Sen. McCain is right" and "I agree with Sen. McCain" this time.

Originally posted by SectionEight
Tom Brokaw destroyed that debate. Total liberal media bias.

From the opening words where he raised his chin and voice to announce Obama and lowered his chin and voice to announce McCain, he showed his bias in body language then manipulated the questions. Hell half the questions were his own. Town hall style is supposed to be questions from the public not corporate media canned everyday questions like we got there.
It is no coincidence that the town hall setting was McCains best style and Obama's worst that Brokaw destroyed the setting in favor of Obama.

You do realize BROKAW is a REPUBLICAN?

Originally posted by mental modulator

Originally posted by SectionEight
Tom Brokaw destroyed that debate. Total liberal media bias.

From the opening words where he raised his chin and voice to announce Obama and lowered his chin and voice to announce McCain, he showed his bias in body language then manipulated the questions. Hell half the questions were his own. Town hall style is supposed to be questions from the public not corporate media canned everyday questions like we got there.
It is no coincidence that the town hall setting was McCains best style and Obama's worst that Brokaw destroyed the setting in favor of Obama.

You do realize BROKAW is a REPUBLICAN?

In fact I can not prove this claim... However considering you generally watch FOX I
think I am a bit more familiar with HIM. I do recall many instances where it seems more than apparent IMO. The daily show and a couple of outbursts in defense of BUSH
that no "LIBERAL" would entertain.

But I must admit I do not have proof of this... On the other hand I think you watch to much FOX and readily drink the GOP TP like KA.

Originally posted by mental modulator

Originally posted by SectionEight

You do realize BROKAW is a REPUBLICAN?

Do you realize who he works for?

Originally posted by WatchRider
I agree the Obama lovers out there cannot see the mistakes Obama is making.

Watching Obama waffle you could tell he was ad-libbing and making up most of it just to fill gaps.

With McCain you can see the fire and energy in his eyes, he believes in what he's saying and conveys convincingly. He connects a lot more with ordinary working americans. So what if he's made money and is rich? Is it a crime to be?

Obama doesn't connect, he sounds good but on a 1-1 level he's just got lines of speech stored that he reels off verbatum.
On health care he did dominate in exception to this, but on foreign policy he just goes on auto-pilot mode.
John McCain is a veteran on foreign policy. Hostile countries to the USA will not mess with the USA if J. McCain is in power.
Obama in power, they will mess with America.
In the coming years, you will need a strong president, Obama is not a strong president.

About the Bomb Iran line people misinterpret.
You have to understand that is Military Humour, very dark but just that, humour. Call it black comedy. All soldiers, sailors and airmen use it to play down a situation or for light comedy. Don't take it literally.

So John McCain wom the dabate by a nose. He clinched it in the final half. But only just.

Apparently you watched a different debate than most.

When Obama is speaking to a crowd of people, let alone the millions of viewers watching, could you explain to me how that is 1 on 1 ?

You say Obama reels off lines he has stored in his head, would you mind explaining McCain saying "my friends" as well as "I know how to...... and I will" .. ? Besides, getting ready for a debate and storing lines in your head is something ALL politicians do for a debate! If you're going to make a general statement about politicians, be aware it applies to your candidate also!

McCain has fire and energy in his eyes? I won't mention his age, I won't mention how he waddled from place to place, I won't mention most of that fire is an obvious disliking for Obama and probably black people. He conveys convincingly? To whom? He never spoke to or even uttered middle class, which is who makes up the majority of this country.

The whole debate, BOTH candidates were on auto-pilot mode spewing the same lines they have been the entire campaign! Obama talked about improving the middle class, his energy plan, and diplomacy when it comes to foreign policy, McCain attempted to take jabs at "that one" and failed to mention the middle class, FOR THE SECOND DEBATE IN A ROW, using the same useless "I know how to..

Originally posted by SectionEight
Do you realize who he works for?

So?

1. Alan Colmes works for Fox.
   
2. Scarborough works for MSNBC.
   
3. Tucker Carlson works for MSNBC also.
   
4. Elizabeth Hassleback (Not that she's a news commentator) works on the View, on ABC.
   

Just cuz he works for NBC, the media punching bag of the right, doesn't mean he can't be conservative in his personal views.

I am not inclined to review 17 pages of a thread, so I will just put my two cents right here...

I am an Independent, yet being retired Navy and a Wharton graduate, I am assumed to be a Republican...Not true

I think our current economic "crisis," and I say "crisis" with emphasis, has overshadowed the election...

Every recent debate has primarily focused on "how to fix the economy."...

Neither candidate, nor any expert, has been able to answer this question...Thus, the debates have culminated in each candidate having to "side-line" to address the economic issue (i.e. $700BN government bailout), and neither (BTW, there shouldn't be a "neither," but a "none" as there should be more than two candidates) candidate was able to address the issue directly, thus changing topics and relying upon their scripted responses...

However, I was intrigued to hear Obama say, in the midst of this economic crisis, caused by the banks, that McCain's healthcare plan could be likened to banks setting up shop in Delaware, as Delaware has "loose laws regarding credit cards"...(he said this at 9:57 p.m. EST or 57' 05" into the debate on Youtube at www.youtube.com...)..."

Obama is right...Most large companies incorporate in Delaware, as Delaware enforces many laws in "FAVOR" of large businesses rather than small businesses or consumers, especially banks (our current downfall)...

Thus, Obama attacks McCain's healthcare "shopping" option as an opportunity for insurance companies to "incorporate" in a state that has lenient healthcare rules...

First off, if a healthcare company is already incorporated in one state, it would cost that company an enormous amount of money to incorporate in another "favorable" state...

Second, each state's insurance commission, not the insurance company, determines what can be offered in each state (i.e. NJ, my state, offers very high cost "individual" health insurance with "NO" prescription option...yet, PA, only 11 miles away from me, has plans at half the cost WITH prescription option)...I called the health insurance companies and they told me to call the NJ State Insurance Commission to complain about the limited policies...

So, what McCain is proposing makes sense to me...I would be able to shop "other" states for health insurance...Kind of like going to Delaware to buy something without having to pay a sales tax (unless it's a car or boat, which you are forced by YOUR state to pay a sales tax AND a registration fee...well, technically you should declare any out of state purchase on your NJ tax return)...

Yet, Obama accuses McCain of favoring "big business..."

Gang, his running mate, the potential future VP, is a Delaware senator AND former governer of that state...Mr. Biden

So, who really favors BIG BUSINESS????

Just my 2 cents from watching the debate...

Originally posted by swdecord
So, what McCain is proposing makes sense to me...I would be able to shop "other" states for health insurance...Kind of like going to Delaware to buy something without having to pay a sales tax (unless it's a car or boat, which you are forced by YOUR state to pay a sales tax AND a registration fee...well, technically you should declare any out of state purchase on your NJ tax return)...

swdecord, under McCain's healthcare plan, he gives you a 5K credit to buy your own plan... Out of state, yes, if you so desired... BUT address in a post your reaction to the fact that an average plan costs 12K. How are you going to afford a 12K plan with 5K in your pocket?

Additionally, if your one of the ones that keeps your employer-paid plan, McCain's gonna tax those, for the first time ever in history!

Please explain to me, smoke and mirrors aside and after we put away this less-than-significant 5K credit carrot he's waving, how McCain's plan is better for you, for me, or for anyone? Or is the 5K he's gonna give you a distraction?

reply to post by swdecord


Yes I must say Obama lost credibility with me on that one -- not that McCain gained any, though. Here's what Obama said:

And the reason that it's a problem to go shopping state by state, you know what insurance companies will do? They will find a state -- maybe Arizona, maybe another state -- where there are no requirements for you to get cancer screenings, where there are no requirements for you to have to get pre-existing conditions, and they will all set up shop there.

That's how in banking it works. Everybody goes to Delaware, because they've got very -- pretty loose laws when it comes to things like credit cards.

And in that situation, what happens is, is that the protections you have, the consumer protections that you need, you're not going to have available to you.

(my emphasis added)

Now, that ignores, and in fact deliberately obscures, the very relevant distinction between the State a corporation is incorporated in, and the State they offer products in. For example, an insurance company couldn't simply re-incorporate in the Bahamas, and then be able to offer California residents health insurance plans that were illegal to sell in that State under California law.

I really felt Obama fudging the issue here, which is why I declared the winner of the debate not Obama or McCain, but the Private Health Insurance Industry (among other corporate entities).

reply to post by Ian McLean


Are you telling me new subsidiaries wouldn't start popping up?

Originally posted by tommy_boy
reply to post by Ian McLean

 

Are you telling me new subsidiaries wouldn't start popping up?

Huh? No, I believe you're missing my point.

If, for example, it is illegal to sell a product in a particular State, it doesn't matter where the company trying to sell it is incorporated -- contrary to what Obama implied.

If anyone can quote any specific Federal Law, that might clear things up further! But I think it's quite clear already.

reply to post by Ian McLean


I did miss your point... Let me do my homework... You may be right.

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen

Originally posted by Zarniwoop
I honestly do not know who I am going to vote for.

Obama would like move the U.S. toward a socialist society across the board.

McCain would like to renegotiate mortgages to the current value of houses (what exactly is current... how do you do that ?) and on top of that, double tax credits to encourage folks to have more babies.

The current values of the houses are the depreciated value which came about due to Foreclosures and Mortgage Defaults. I have seen homes selling for $500,000 in neighborhoods which did have the houses assessed for over $800,000 as recently as last year. Do you think it fair to pay a Mortgage based upon the Latter assessment when your House is now worth the Former? That is what Senator McCain's proposal is.

Ummm. Yeah. It's called an investment. Investments do not always work out in your favor. They contain risk. Should I be reimbursed for every bad stock purchase I've made because the market went down? housing is no different. In this case, McCain is suggesting that tax payers bail out people who made investments on houses that went down and can't pay thier contracted mortgages.

If I can take the same percentage write-down off of my remaining mortgage, then I'm OK with this. But I don't think that is going to happen.

Originally posted by tommy_boy

Originally posted by swdecord
So, what McCain is proposing makes sense to me...I would be able to shop "other" states for health insurance...Kind of like going to Delaware to buy something without having to pay a sales tax (unless it's a car or boat, which you are forced by YOUR state to pay a sales tax AND a registration fee...well, technically you should declare any out of state purchase on your NJ tax return)...

swdecord, under McCain's healthcare plan, he gives you a 5K credit to buy your own plan... Out of state, yes, if you so desired... BUT address in a post your reaction to the fact that an average plan costs 12K. How are you going to afford a 12K plan with 5K in your pocket?

Additionally, if your one of the ones that keeps your employer-paid plan, McCain's gonna tax those, for the first time ever in history!

Please explain to me, smoke and mirrors aside and after we put away this less-than-significant 5K credit carrot he's waving, how McCain's plan is better for you, for me, or for anyone? Or is the 5K he's gonna give you a distraction?

tommy_boy,

I am self-insured and have paid at least $156,000 in health insurance premiums, since retiring from the military in 1998, for less than desirable coverage...And that $156,000 doesn't include the $4,000 per year family deductible or $30 co-payments...

Yes, I could use the military medical benefits, but that plan is limited as well...And co-pays and deductibles exist...And your choice of physicians is EXTREMELY limited...

No one, during the 10 years that I paid out $156,000, offered me a $5,000 credit each year toward that cost...All I could do was write it off on my taxes, which I assume will still be the case under McCain's plan...Less the $5K of course...

So, under McCain's plan, in 10 years, if we're still around, I would only pay $156,000 - $50,000 = $106,000...Nice! I saved 32%!

But wait! There's more...since I live in NJ, and choose to stay here, I am paying one of the highest health insurance premiums in the country, for a very limited plan....

In the states next to me, DE and PA, I would pay HALF the premium for the same plan...

So, now in 10 years it would look like this (And please, I'm not taking into account inflation, rate changes, etc...because I suck at math):

I'll assume that I only pay 60% of my current premium, as that is the cost in PA...

$156,000 X 60% = $93,600 - $50,000 = $43,600!!!!

I just saved $112,400, or $11,240 each year...WOOOTTTT!

That would easily cover that nasty $4,000 yearly deductible and leave some money for the kid's college fund...

So, that's the math....I should also mention that McCain's plan would help the uninsured in America afford some type of health coverage, especially if they live in a high cost state and can purchase insurance from a low cost state...

If we go to a national healthcare model, which appears to be Obama's plan, it becomes socialized medicine...I lived with socialized medicine for 20 years and it sucks...Also, I have friends from overseas who fly into the U.S. to have operations because under their state-run health plan they would have to wait six months for an appointment with their specialist...

Now, on to a different note...

Biden has been a senator AND governer in the state of Delaware for more than 30 years...

So, who do you think passed those "lenient laws regarding credit cards" to entice those same "really, really big banks" to incorporate in Delaware?

My guess would be Senator Biden....

Which state has the most banks who issue credit cards with teaser rates, which get people in financial trouble , which is part of the reason they default on their mortgage?

My guess is Delaware...

But wait...Obama/Biden are AGAINST big business...and want to help "Main Street" rather than "Wall Street"

Come on...Poilitics as usual...on both sides.

reply to post by swdecord


I'll post separately on the issue, but may God bless you for your service, swdecord.

Greetings swdecord,

it is regretful that we are on different sides on this one. My employers' health plan covers me, wife and kids, and if McCain has it his way, we get totally shafted. Besides, I'm quite satisfied with the care we receive.

I know that somebody needs to pay to help the self-insured like yourself. But McCain is being hypocritical in saying he won't tax the middle class. His healthcare plan does exactly that. The mumbo-jumbo about competition is that that, mumbo-jumbo. There are already tons of hospitals out there and I don't see rates going down.



[edit on 9-10-2008 by buddhasystem]

I take everything with a grain of salt UNTIL it is passed and put into law...Each candidate is "proposing" this and that, but I am not going to hold my breath...

tommy_boy...thank you...our troops need us the most...especially since Iraq may turn out to be Bush's Vietnam...