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Man shot for wearing Obama T-shirt

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posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 03:17 AM
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Originally posted by AHostileMe
Ok, a couple things here. Either the guy who did this is nuts and should not really represent any general population, or there is more to the story.

I don't like Obama, but I'm not going to chase someone down and shoot them with my Daisy rifle. Nor will most other people that I know not supporting Obama.

Or maybe this "victim" really pushed some buttons. The article is a bit too simplistic for me to jump to any conclusions ... maybe wait for a trial before we all throw stones?


It appears from the other reports on the story that the victim - and yes, a genuine victim, there's no need to use quotation marks as you're doing - pushed buttons simply by having the 'wrong' colour skin. If you've only read the initial article the accompanies the OP, then you might think that, but other reports include extra information. This seems a wholly unprovoked attack, certainly not a case of Egwuatu pushing someone's buttons.

Egwuatu was buying a mobile phone top-up card; he wasn't parading down the street with a megaphone espousing the subjugation of the white race.




posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 03:59 AM
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This thread has a little bit of everything, all the stuff thats making ATS go to the dumps.

The usual not actually reading the article before posting.
Rambling about things that didnt happen.
Those all insightful 'That wouldnt happen to me cuz id kill him'.
The partisan over and under hyping.

Lets use some common sense here and stay on topic maybe? lol
The weapon described sounds like a hand bb gun, which can look like a real gun
This happened is South London, a place known for having alot of chavs. Chavs are generally poorly educated, racist, and very aggresive. The victim is clearly 'black'. From what I understand where chav's go crime follows. This probably had little to do with the victim wearing a Obama shirt.

Idk anyone who would want to be verbally attacked, chased by a dog, and be shot at by a BB gun which could easily look like a real gun. 2 of the 3 has never happened to me. BUT that still doesnt make this news or thread worthy.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 04:09 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 04:16 AM
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reply to post by TheInformer
 

so i take it chavs are the equivalent to american ghetto rats? hip hop rednecks maybe?



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 04:59 AM
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Just wanted to add in a few things about the BB gun.

My brother hunts small game with a BB rifle. It can kill birds and squirrels.

Which means it can easily destroy someones eyes and permanently blind them, so it's not entirely harmless. And certainly not a toy gun considering the context.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 06:27 AM
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Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
Which means it can easily destroy someones eyes and permanently blind them, so it's not entirely harmless. And certainly not a toy gun considering the context.


This has been commented on a few times in the thread, and I mentioned it myself.

However, apparently, the important lesson here is that it's not as powerful as a .357 magnum and that if Egwuatu was armed with an assault rifle or something this wouldn't have happened. Also, the other lesson is that next-time, he should just 'suck it up' because being shot in the face by a racist in an unprovoked attack with a 'child's gun' doesn't really hurt. Not only was he asking for it, he's just really soft and not obviously a real man. Or something.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 06:46 AM
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reply to post by Fathom
 


This is the first time I've heard the word. Wikipedia has me thinking Chav = *snip*

I thought, christ how awful to have your country overrun by these idiots to the point that legislation has to be passed and that pocket knives in sweatshirts equate to national security crisis then I remembered that the area they are talking about is probably the size of Colorado.

It more equates to NYC being a *snip* but NY state being quite lovely I think.

So many people being packed onto an island is never a good thing.

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.





[edit on 10/8/2008 by maria_stardust]



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 06:51 AM
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reply to post by Merriman Weir
 


Ah, well then thanks for those tips!


In light of that, I shall wield my dual katanas at all time, and wear plain white shirts.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 07:15 AM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by Fathom
 


This is the first time I've heard the word. Wikipedia has me thinking Chav = *snip*



I think this is one of the things that has frustrated some of the British posters on this forum - I say that as I genuinely doubt I'm the only one - on threads such as 'hoodies with knives' and so on. Non-British people don't really understand what is actually being meant when a lot of these stories are talked about or the context behind them.

Whilst hooded jackets are worn by a variety of people, the 'hoodies' that people are talking about as being an issue are 'chavs' - not workmen trying to keep warm outside, or what other weird point some people have tried to make. Chavs are similar to the worst aspects of rednecks and 'white trash' stereotypes mixed in the *snip* you mention above. It's not a very appealing hybrid to be honest. It's a chimera that's really making the rest of Britain difficult to live in at times.

I'm working class myself and I live in a very working class area - I think it would be best described a 'projects' in America and I'm see this people and this behaviour everyday. Often, the British middle-class will bleat about the demonisation of chavs, seeing it as an expression of class-hate. I've never agreed with this at all, as I live in the same areas as these people and come from the same kind of background - the only difference is I didn't limit myself by buying into the stereotype that because you have limited opportunity due to finances that you have to become a thug, a thief and act like you've got learning difficulties.

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.



[edit on 10/8/2008 by maria_stardust]



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by Merriman Weir
 


We have plenty of these idiots too but they're pretty well rounded up into urban areas and trailer parks. Within the trailer parks they keep to themselves but in the urban areas where residents are encouraged by local police and politics not to defend themselves and local politics support and feed and otherwise subsidize the bad behavior of these idiots through wealth redistribution and clinics and half-way houses and more they thrive. Eventually they spill out of their "ghettos" and begin to assault and harass the non-"chav" people who just happen to live there.

I used to live in a city that did all of that. I fought and fought for change but it never came and the politics of the city only worked more and more in the favor of the trash living there so I up and left. Along with some other reasons most notably being the states selective disarming of law-abiding residents.

You cant escape them entirely. Even in the tiny town I currently live there are some idiots who dress like neon clowns and speak as improperly as possible but since the politics here encourage self-defense and so far do not financially or otherwise support and subsidize bad behavior they haven't crossed the line into actually acting out their little "ghetto trash" fantasies.

My hope is they find life here very boring and move off to NY or Boston or CT and go behave like psychotic circus freaks there before the liberal politics that seeks to subsidize bad behavior and discourage self-defense makes any inroads up here.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 09:07 AM
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reply to post by ufo reality
 


Up to and after. He is a HACK.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 10:22 AM
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I remember as a kid them rifle pumps would certainly kill at close range and to the head. I remember my uncle said lets see what it can do and held up a phone book. Reluctantly I agreed but, he never believed me. It went through the 3 inch phone book then through a 1/4 inch oak cupboard door and shattered a coffee mug ROFL
That was just one pump.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by Merriman Weir
It appears from the other reports on the story that the victim - and yes, a genuine victim, there's no need to use quotation marks as you're doing - pushed buttons simply by having the 'wrong' colour skin ...

Then we go by my other assessment; the guy is nuts and does not represent any general population. I was only stating that tying this into a political debate between Obama and McCain is asinine.

Btw, I still could think that the other guy may have helped provoke the situation. I could care less how many articles are printed to lean one way. Sometimes there are two sides to every story. Maybe the victim did not start it, but he could've helped after the initial "name calling".

Either way, this is not a good way to smear any political campaign. It's almost like saying anyone who is against Obama is racist, in a subliminal manner. (and if you disagree, look at the post right above this)

btw, shocka, where does it say the attacker is a McCain supporter? He is in the UK, he probably could care less who wins.
[edit on 8-10-2008 by AHostileMe]

[edit on 8-10-2008 by AHostileMe]



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by Merriman Weir
 


We have plenty of these idiots too but they're pretty well rounded up into urban areas and trailer parks.

...

I used to live in a city that did all of that. I fought and fought for change but it never came and the politics of the city only worked more and more in the favor of the trash living there so I up and left. Along with some other reasons most notably being the states selective disarming of law-abiding residents.

...

My hope is they find life here very boring and move off to NY or Boston or CT and go behave like psychotic circus freaks there before the liberal politics that seeks to subsidize bad behavior and discourage self-defense makes any inroads up here.


Unfortunately, this isn't a localised thing. This is genuinely a problem across much of the country and as you said yourself, there's a lot of people on this island. We don't have the opportunity that at least some Americans have to move into wide open space away from it all.

Regarding the "liberal politics" comment, I think much of the current problems in this country are down to "conservative politics" as much as anything else as many of the traditionally working class jobs vanished in the course of a decade or so due to us not having any kind of manufacturing industry any more. Although that's another argument though and not really applicable to this thread.

EDIT: apologies for cutting down the quoting of your post, I was worried about the 'excessive quoting' thing.

[edit on 8-10-2008 by Merriman Weir]



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by AHostileMe

Then we go by my other assessment; the guy is nuts and does not represent any general population. I was only stating that tying this into a political debate between Obama and McCain is asinine.


Well, I for one wasn't tying this into an Obama vs McCain thing. I think it's foolish to think that someone against Obama and his supporters is necessarily a McCain supporter; I'm certainly not suggesting this. The guy who attacked Egwuatu was a racist, that much is proven by the comments he actually came out with. However, I'd place a safe bet that whilst he dislikes the idea of a black president, he couldn't name any of the things McCain stands for in terms of policies. In your edit, you point out that:


He is in the UK, he probably could care less who wins. (sic)


Why do you not see that, rather than being provoked, the racist was actively looking for an excuse to have a go at Egwuatu?



Btw, I still could think that the other guy may have helped provoke the situation. I could care less how many articles are printed to lean one way.


Really? Based on what? Although all the coverage says differently, you think Egwuatu still was at least partly responsible? I find this a bit troubling to be honest. You don't think it possible that this could have been an unprovoked racist attack? Egwuatu had to play some part in it? You've said yourself, this wasn't an Obama vs McCain issue and the story points out that the guy was making extreme racist comments. Egwuatu isn't some young bad-ass from the projects, pushing attitude on the street to every whitey that walks by. He's a 36-year-old civil servant who works for the Immigration department who'd driven to the shop to get a mobile phone top-up when he was attacked by a racist.

Were you there? Are you calling Egwuatu a liar?



Sometimes there are two sides to every story. Maybe the victim did not start it, but he could've helped after the initial "name calling".


Oh yes, sometimes there is two sides to a story. Sometimes there isn't. I'm still not sure how or why you seem to be so certain which is the case here.


Either way, this is not a good way to smear any political campaign. It's almost like saying anyone who is against Obama is racist, in a subliminal manner. (and if you disagree, look at the post right above this)


Not really. Some people might think that, but I'd hedge a guess that they're in a minority. However, I'd also hedge a guess that honestly, underneath it all, there are people that don't like Obama because they are racists. Not everyone who disapproves of Obama, but some. That fact that racism exists actually proves this.


btw, shocka, where does it say the attacker is a McCain supporter? He is in the UK, he probably could care less who wins.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


Any airgun over here gets refered to as a BB gun, it can fire .177 or .22 ball bearing OR pellets, and depending on what, and whether or not the attacker had a few 1 or 2 pence pieces shoved behind the spring, they can be quite harmful. You could take someones eye out, or, in some of the more powerful "modded" ones, pierce right through the skin, I've personally seen someone shot right through the cheek with one, its not nice.



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by AHostileMeSometimes there are two sides to every story. Maybe the victim did not start it, but he could've helped after the initial "name calling".


The man had an argument inside a store, waited until he thought the man he was arguing with would be gone, then left the store to find the man, with a dog and gun, waiting for him. No matter what the victim said, it is wrong to chase down a man and shoot him in the face.

As far as the dog goes, I have met many very sweet Staffies and other "pit bull" types. But if I encounter a man I just had a verbal altercation with outside the store with a Staffordshire Terrier, a gun, and an attitude, I'm going to assume this is not one of the nice ones.

And no doubt I am neglectful of my rights as an American citizen, but I have never even held a BB gun, let alone a "real" gun. I wouldn't have any way of knowing what the guy was shoving in my face. As a woman, I may be particularly sensitive to the idea of having a scar across my cheek from being shot in the face with a BB gun, but I imagine most men would pass on that experience too. Let alone the prospect of losing an eye.


Either way, this is not a good way to smear any political campaign. It's almost like saying anyone who is against Obama is racist, in a subliminal manner. (and if you disagree, look at the post right above this)


You're right about this. It is not fair to pretend that this attacker somehow represents McCain supporters, or even inner-city British white men. I didn't see the OP or any of the earlier posts in support of the OP doing this. I think that started happening when some McCain supporters on the thread went straight for the "that's not a real gun" argument.

As for whether this should have been reported as news, or if it's the media making a big deal of nothing; the OP links to a UK newspaper. Thanks to strict gun control, being shot in the face probably still counts as news over there.

edit: Cause I'm not sure if the next post is responding to me not knowing what a BB gun looks like. I do know what one is and have seen ball bearings used in all sorts of other applications, so I'm aware of what we're talking about. But if someone was pointing a BB gun at me, I wouldn't know for sure that it wasn't something much more deadly. And again I'm just baffled by people who seem to think that it's no big deal to have an angry stranger shoot you in the face, even if the pellet were made of Nerf! We're talking about being chased into your car by an angry young man and his Staffordshire Terrier and shot in the face. Apparently for being of African descent (I'm assuming based on the name) and having the gall to wear a t-shirt that implies you support a black man for president of a world power.

[edit on 10/8/08 by americandingbat]



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 12:45 PM
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BB guns are a type of air gun designed to shoot projectiles called BB after the Birdshot pellet of approximately the same size. These projectiles are usually spherical but can also be pointed; those are usually used for bird hunting.

Some manufacturers also still make lead Ball bearings of slightly larger diameter and which are generally intended for use in rifled BB gun barrels, as were formerly used in BB guns. Some Asian companies make plastic BBs for recreation.

en.wikipedia.org...

The dude was shot with a bb gun, ouch, call the ambulance, actually if he had been hit in the eye it could have cause some damage. Maybe he was poisoned with the lead?


Edit to say NOT condoning him being shot, just that it seems to have been greatly exaggerated as to him being "shot". The guy that shot him should have more tolerance.

I have been shot with BB guns, growing up as a kid, we used to play "cowboy and Indians", my brother was the cowboy I was the Indian, I got shot with BB's and I actually "scalped" him once.


[edit on 8-10-2008 by amazed]



posted on Oct, 8 2008 @ 01:02 PM
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As to those quoting me, I am not really excusing the guy who chased the victim with a dog and then shot him with a BB gun. In no case is there ever an excuse to do such a thing, well, except for extreme situations, like the guy killed your child or something.

What I am saying is that the story seemed to simple. The article says the guy is wearing an Obama shirt and was chased while having racist comments yelled at him. That story doesn't jive. It paints this picture of a random shouting at a guy with an Obama shirt then chasing him, as if this Obama shirt caused everything, and if he didn't have an Obama shirt, all would've been well. I'm just not buying the story, ok?



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