Our Economy Was Pushed Off the Edge.

I found out about this fraud some time ago thanks to Financial Sense Online.

They have a fantastic resource page called Crime of The Century: The Truth About Naked Short Selling in Juniors (the problem is more widespread than just juniors but it's concentrated there). It includes a series of interviews (8 of them with transcripts); some editorials; and info on how to file a complaint with regulatory authorities in both Canada and the US.

Some of the material also contains information on the lawsuits being filed and the leading lawyer is one of the interviewed guests.

If this topic interests you at all and you want a better understanding of how it work, what it means and what you can do about it you should spend some time listening to these. They really have done a fantastic job of laying it all out.
.

Think Billy Sol Estes only on a grander scale.

reply to post by Perseus Apex


...Right, well aside from childish commentating on a subject you, apparently, don't know anything about...

Shareholders of the bank, are banks themselves.. thus, Chase, for instance, would be a share holder of the Federal Reserve.. which is a conglomerate of private banks that operate the procedures of the banking industry..

Given the nature of private bank's ability to generate money from nothing, ie, create a loan at a certain ratio to dollars held, the Federal Reserve, threw member bank deposits, backed by Congress's declaration creating the board, can issue money at interest to be re-paid to the bank..

However, the Federal Reserve can only lend money to banks, because it is a board that governs the banking industries..

The Federal Reserve, being a board, cannot own positions in the US economy, that is, when the Federal Reserve's member banks became loaded with "bad debts" or debts that never produced income above expenditures that wanted them taken from their books. The Federal Reserve, being a skeleton of an entity, could only issue loans from generated money that had to be paid at interest.. resulting in some institutions, like AIG, to sell huge parts of their corporations to remain solvent while paying the Board. HOWEVER, to actually own a position, or a security, that is a bad debt, the treasury threw the sale of securities must purchase, as the US Government can own anything they desire, while a Reserve Board cannot.

No personal shares are sold from the Federal Reserve.

No personal bonds are sold from the Federal Reserve.

The Federal Reserve is not "owned" .. it is maintained by the largest standing banks that make up what in corporations would be considered "the board" ..

So tell me, who is the majority share holder of the following:

Bank of America
Chase
Citigroup
Wachovia
Wells Fargo
U.S. BC
Suntrust
HSBC North America
Keycorp
Statestreet

TELL ME MAJORITY SHARE HOLDERS common, lil buddy, you can do it.. I know you can .. do some research .. and if every one of those banks, which represent the Federal Reserve, is in fact owned by the Rothschilds or any other family you described then I will eat my hat.

Scaremongering and irrational view points are, to say the least, not welcomed by me, sorry.

Rockpuck

i am growing in confidence the financial crisis is a problem reaction solution set up.

we are all under stress in our lives (some more than others) but to me and i wouldn't think to you there is much of a leap of faith needed to at least losely agree with the following (or believe it is a strong possibility)

not every step was designed , but FINANCE and Debt was made a larger and larger part of our Economy for the last several decades with financial powers/ lobbyists gaining more and more influence over washington, then within the last 10 years , the financial industry was deregulated, which was akin to a last get rich quick party, giving wallstreet and there paid off "establishment party in washington gov't a last hurrah before the SHTF i.e before the collapse and the subsequent consolidation of power occurs as well as some robbing of liberties during the chaotic period that follows

i believe President Clinton's mentor Carrol Quigley was right! he jConcluded in his book "tragedy and hope".....in the 1960's that

www.liveleak.com...

[T]he powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole...... This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences.

think bilderberg group members'/Trilateral commission

i.e David rockefeller's quote from the 1991 bilderberg convention

www.rense.com...

"It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries."

with this in mind


1. deregulating the system in the late 90's was a big part of this Premeditated plan. Allowing banks to have leverage of up to 30-40-50X the amount of capital is ASKING/INVITING Trouble...Literally! This is not something that is Unknown, people chalk it up to those running the businesses being greedy and having only a short time frame for which they care what happens, but the system was deregulated with the blessing of the FEDERAL RESERVE and ALAN GREENSPAN, there was pressure applied to company's to become "reckless" and this only gave those that were in positions of $ and greed (bankers) the push that was not always required to have a last reckless party before the SHTF! I don't KNOW who tells the FED what to do, but they do not do things for the betterment of the country and they IMO like to rule by secrecy.

2. The solution to the current "problem" will interesting to watch. The solution will be provided when the PUBLIC ENDURES ENOUGH PAIN to illicit the reaction that clamors for the solution the Elite (think Bilderbergers/Trilateral commission) want to accelerate there plans for a NWO with the intelligency agency's and the world financial system with powers that outstrip the soverign country's gov'ts EVen more than they already do, this solution will be less freedoms, more intrustion (think micropchips) but first the pain has to be heightened so that people will think the solution is actually acceptable.

3. the consolidation of power during this time is = to order out of chaos ...you could look at it like consolidation of power and stripping of liberty's out of chaos.

there is zero media network that puts these things in this perspective so people don't seem to get it, but there is enough there to give me a very strong belief that the "ball was intentionally put in motion for a crisis like we have now to occur" with a solution in mind when the time is right. I think the answers are there for those willing to stomach a inconvenient truth

the elite didn't think people should be informed of this plan, they didn't think you would swollow it well, Carroll Quigley was a globalists but unlike most of the elite, i guess he thought people should be sold this idea (i.e be "educated" /know about it)

I am reminded by the metaphor usually linked in religious discussion/ (bible?) i'm not really " religious" but believe there are many lessons to be learned from "advice" /warning's in these books so the statement

that the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist

reminds me the greatest trick the purportators of this conspiracy may have pulled was convincing the majority of people (that anyone who questions or hints at the possibility that there are co-ordinated attemps by an elite in power to have coniving intelligent and secretive plans for more power and control) that these people (who bring this up) must be dismissed as crazy, and if you don't , you may be associated with there "crazyness"


[edit on 8-10-2008 by cpdaman]

reply to post by Rockpuck


"Childish commentating?"

Where do get off with that kind of language?

You need to 'check' your ego at the door and stick to the facts as they are.

The same banksters who own majority interests in most of the banks mentioned in your post are the same banking cartel who owns operates the IRS, the Federal Reserve, IMF, World Bank, Bank for International settlements, the Reserve banks with housing most of the world's gold.

The same cartel own a majority share ownership of the worlds largest banks, oil companies, gold mining, diamond mining, and any other important commodity used in the market today.

Since they own majority ownership of the industries above, they control the supply of those commodities, as well as subequent products produced from these inputs. When you control the 'supply' you control the price of those products, commodities and other inputs. They now have a monopoly.

Its a world monopoly of the worlds commodities as well as real estate and banking assets.

You want to know more, I'll give you a homework assignment. Look up the 'institutions', funds, private investors, insiders, holding companies and figure out for yourself who has 51% or more, controlling shareholdership of the banking stocks you mentioned above as well as the controlling shareholdership of

Perhaps you really don't know? This was by design. Do you really think that Rothschild, Rockefeller, Morgan, Warburg and a few others are going to put their NAME on these investments? lmao. If they did this, it would be a serious violation of anti-trust laws of which have been hijacked long ago.

It would take a book to explain the details. You can't tell me, or anyone hear that you honestly read the Rothschild dynasty link and the Zeitgeist video hyperlinks I posted above.

Enough of the manipulating language and personal insults. All they do is reveal your lack of character and ignorance to the facts.

I've been an active stock, commodities, and precious metals trader in the past for many years. I have a Marketing/Finance degree cum laude from a highly respected University. Regardless of these facts, I can't see how you could reply once again asking me for facts when you clearly have not reviewed the links I provided.

They both clearly state how the Rothschild family banking dynasty began, how the Rothschilds 'invested in' or loaned funds to the other banksters to ensure loyalty among the cartel members. Those who were believed to have revealed the system or were suspected of sharing secrets held close among the cartel members have 'disappeared', been assassinated (suicide, plane crash, overdose, auto accident etc.). These people throughout history has proven time and again that they will stop at nothing to further the agenda of a NWO that their forefathers envisioned long ago beginning with Rhodes. Yes the same Rhodes that offers scholarships to its future puppets to bide the will of the bankster cartel.

My assumption, after examining your posts, is that you currently work for one of the banks you mentioned above, most likely Barclays bank which is headed by Rothschild himself with the other cartel members, along with Rothschild hold controlling inerest in the banks stock.

Perhaps you need to find out who owns controlling shareholdership of the investing entities in the banks shareholdership as well as the controlling shareholdership of the worlds largest stocks.

These banksters conceal their identities in trusts, shell corporations, shell corporations invested in funds of which are cumulatively majority shareholders of the funds above.

I discovered these facts through many sources though on a personal level, I as well as any other trader in the past have been swindled through various means of stock manipulations, naked short selling, share dilutions, PIPES, hedge funds.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Here's some good ole fashioned 'home schooling'. You could have 5 doctorates in todays education system and you wouldn't have a clue as to the information below. This same banking cartel own majority shareholder interest in the publishing companies as well that 'teach' the youth what they desire.

Here's another link. Perhaps your attitude of 'knowing it all' is your worst enemy. Let me guess, you know quite a few with your attitude at the workplace or in the family? You got this attitude from somewhere and it only holds you back. You need to liberate yourself of your own ignorance before claiming the 'ignorance' of another.

Fed. Reserve

Relax, Rockpuck, no one knows it all. Stick to the facts from here forward rather than engaging in childish insults of which solves nothing but a lack of character and arousal of suspicions as to your motives.

Another poster in the past revealed the links below. I think he was banned somehow since he no longer posts anymore. If you still have doubts as to what I say, why not hear it from the banksters themselves as well as their victims past and present:

Rothschild quotes


Illuminati quotes

NWO quotes




[edit on 8-10-2008 by Perseus Apex]

reply to post by cpdaman


There was no doubt a MASSIVE deregulation of the banks..

And there has, from cause and effect, been massive CONSOLIDATION ..

Which has happened before.. banks have been consolidated, but eventually the Capitalist system balanced it's self out.

I honestly have to look back to 1989 to where our current problems stem from.

1. We spent the USSR into bankruptcy, and managed to stay affloat ourselves, however, we had Japan and Germany to thank for that.. they purchased more debt (Gov. sold securities at interest) then all the world combined. This allowed us to use massive borrowed funds that Russia could not get because their list of wealthy allies was .. short. 1990's come along and we went from helping protect the World from the USSR, to policing the world from petty criminals.. we still kept our spending high all the way up until Clinton was elected..

Essentially, the Military Industrial Complex kept us afloat..

1990's Clinton saw the second largest economic bubble in America's history expand beyond belief.. the Internet opened a world wide boundaryless market place to sell goods, advertising space, and reach people once unreachable. Instead of setting up show in NYC at a high price boutique.. you could sit in your mother basement, make more money, and sell to people all over the World.

Result was HUGE stock market inflation .. huge loans.. huge risky "new market investment" .. and it all failed, because when it came down to it the little guy with a generic website selling god knows what could not sustain the economy.. could not, in the end, after market inflation of internet real estate and advertising, produce as much as a corporation. So the DOT COM fails.. which propped us up threw our last great era of prosperity...

We sink into a rather severe recession .. it was played over, it was talked down.. it was not THAT bad after all, right? No, it was utterly TERRIBLE...

WE NEVER GOT OUT OF IT!..

America's wealth was drying up, after 9/11 our markets crashed once again, but that does not give a tell tale story to the economy.. stocks, in the end, honestly only determine weather or not your getting paid next week. But to save the market place, they destroyed the Dollar, reducing interest rates from bank to bank so cheap, you would have been stupid not to loan your money out and cover it at the end of the day with a loan at .5%...

Decreasing Dollar meant more money for Arabs.. who then in turn, turned around sent the money back to us, in the markets.. we saw China and the Middle East become the major sources of debt purchases. So while we wage a war against a country all the other arab countries despised, they soaked in the money from our crashing dollar, used the billion to buy our stocks, inflated the market, and soon enough very, very wealthy investors began purchasing real estate.. tracks of land, loaning out money to development companies they had interest in..

Some areas explode, like NY, California, Washington, Florida.. Home owners see their house they bought at 100k go to 150k .. they sell, and buy two houses, or move to another area and pay top dollar for a house.. soon every one is getting # ton of money from mortgages everyone is on top of the world.. some invest their money, further inflation of the markets, but all in all, the crashing dollar takes it's toll and those who bought a house in 04 find in 08, with currency being 30% worth less then what it WAS in 04, they get burried in debts, and default sending a tidal wave cascading into the financials.

HOWEVER

Without the highly inflated house prices, people raking in the dough doing absolutely nothing except selling at the right time.. we increased consumer spending, thus production, thus our gdp, low and behold, aside from record poverty, unemployment not seen since the 80's .. we are in this era of prosperity no one is even feeling ..

So .. was it a cartel that plans all this out? I personally say no .. people can link to NWO, Illuminati, Evil Masons, Reptillians from Niboobooroo I don't give a damn what youtube crap is out there.. I have seen a cabal of countries, through politicians and bankers alike, adapt a system that, while flawed, possibly fraudulent, and completely unethical .. which saved the country from possible bankruptcy. If in 2001 we did not start a system to produce SOMETHING .. no one would have purchased our debts..

I see the Western World, Europe, and North America, combining their economic powers in a massive cross continent economic zone.. I do not think that it is a bad thing either.. I don't think we will see "one world government" .. to many differences, to much distance.. quite frankly we American's tolerate a lot.. but we will never tolerate being united with the French..

If we don't like the crooks, the fiends, the greed corporate bastards in their 500k cars they don't even bother to drive themselves... DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT ..

Or better yet, move to a Communist Country..

So the bankers perhaps both saved us, and killed us.. kind of like a drowning victim clinging to their savior and both drown and die.. but I just don't see that "goal....

Though, as you know, I deeply respect your opinion on the matter.. what exactly do you think the actual outcome.. the final goal is?

Deliberate short selling...????
OK rewind the tape, and take it fom the beginning...

I write a computer program to trade. It looks at the market and trades "with the herd"

Someone else does the same thing.

And another. And another.
You get the point.

Now, an unusual event, such as a loss of confidence due to Fannie Mae, causes someones computer to short stock.

This in turn cause the stock price to go down, which then triggers another computer, and another and another.

Now add the complexity of leveraged investments, plus virtual shares - also known as naked trades, which then *amplify* this effect even more.

All the computers act in unison and the market is now locked up in a vicious cycle.

Folks, the stock market is nothing but a bunch of computers programmed to follow the herd as accurately as possible.

Is it any wonder why everything is crumbling to sand?

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the volatility! But there are some novices who are really getting hurt out there. The fact is the market is totally disconnected from reality, and the same goes for realestate prices also, so you better make the chaos work for you now, while you still can.


[edit on 8-10-2008 by ATS4dummies]

reply to post by Rockpuck



32degree? Is that for real?

[edit on 9-10-2008 by Perseus Apex]

WOW!!!

"Treasury has the right to take ownership positions in the banks, including healthy ones."

www.reuters.com...

Treasury officials told the newspaper the $700 billion bailout bill gives them the authority to inject cash into banks that request it, a move that would quickly strengthen banks' balance sheets and hopefully persuade them to resume lending.

Health banks could be at risk under this bill.

reply to post by Perseus Apex

Rockpuck, are you a 32 degree mason as your ATS ID suggests?
I know something about the freemasons myself having a relative of which was a Grand Master Mason and a few others at various levels.

And what, do tell, does this have anything to do with the topic? Seriously.. and there is no such thing as a Grand Master..

Would you care to debate this?

No, I honestly would not.. the absurd crap you already posted regarding your knowledge on the subject is already shameful enough to waste the server space it has.

So I ask, once again.. what the hell does any of this have to do with the discussion at hand?

reply to post by LookingAround


Banking consolidation right on schedule and 'just' in time.

I like to watch Paulson sweat it out though I don't like his constant barrage of deception spinning the public logic into a quagmire of confusion.

Notice how they like to say they have the 'right' to do this and the 'right' to do that? They don't have the right to exist in the first place. The Fed. Reserve, as per the US Consititution, is in violation of being a PRIVATE bank being the sole source of the Treasuries money supply. It's also unconsitutional that the Fed. Reserve was never approved or ratified by Congress as clearly stated in the Constitution. Assassinations, threats, blackmails, payoffs etc. has been the glue holding this SH_t together.


Lets break this BS down.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Treasury Department is considering taking ownership stakes in many U.S. banks in a bid to restore confidence in the badly shaken financial system, the New York Times said.

Lie #1 The US Treasury is not buying ownership stakes, its broke, the Fed. Reserve (a private international banking consortium) is.

Lie #2 Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson spoke of the department's new authority to inject capital into banks as one of the powers in the new bailout law.

You have no authority other than which the US Consitution gives you and thats nada. To make it worse, your giving yourself the 'authority' not as a bank's option to take over any bank in America as your boss sees fit.

Lie #3 "We will use all the tools we've been given to maximum effectiveness," he told a media conference on Wednesday, "including strengthening the capitalization of financial institutions of every size."

The tools you were given?; rather extorted.

Lie #4 "Treasury officials worry that if not done properly, government purchases could alarm bank shareholders by appearing to be punitive or be interpreted as a sign that target banks were failing, the paper said."

Interpretation: Do it NOW before my arse is thrown out in Abu Graib.

Lie #5 "The bailout law calls for limits on executive pay when capital is injected into a bank and bars banks from paying its chief executive a "golden parachute" package."

Interpretation: I'll limit executive pay ONLY if you allow me to make deposits into my competition until my boss owns the REST of the rare non-cartel American Banks.

Lie #6 "The Treasury plan resembles one announced on Wednesday in Britain whereby the government would offer banks up to $87 billion to shore up their capital in exchange for preference shares. It also would provide a guarantee of about $430 billion to help banks refinance debt."

It doesn't 'resemble' the British 'solution', it is from the same authors.
Your 'preferred' shareholdership position guarantees that if a bank defaults into liquidation, you get paid back first which basically means you will take it over with those trillions your boss has in inventory collecting millions a day in interest while the worlds 'societies' are crumbling at your helm.

Wow, time for some music. I just can't believe the American public, Senate and House of Cowards are allowing this to happen. I'm ready for some "Long Gone" by Chris Cornell. He left last year, wonder why?

What's up? What you gonna DO about it?

Guess, you'll leave it up to me or another of endeavor?

Do I have to do this myself?

Attention all you MF's in uniform.

There's a good reason you havn't killed the phantom Osama Bin Laden. It's not time. They haven't completed their mission yet.

Secret Societies, wake your ASSE's up. Your living a lie base on GREED. Defend the Consititution, the Bill of Rights and establish a new Declaration of Independence from the International Bankster Cartel. Who the F these guys think they are. lol at U!!

[edit on 9-10-2008 by Perseus Apex

[edit on 9-10-2008 by Perseus Apex]

I posted this elsewhere tonight, but this is relevant to this thread. so forgive the dual post:

Look To The Past!

Everyone, I'm looking for video of this, but in the meantime, I found a transcript.

On October 15th, 1992, Bill Clinton, George H.W. Bush, and Ross Perot held a townhall debate.

The candidates were asked to discuss how they would deal with Pensions, Social Security, and Medicare. Perot gave a long-winded answer, Bush kind of evaded the question, and then Clinton said the following after already covering Social Security and Medicare first and second:

Number 3, on the pension funds, I don't know as much about it, but I will say this. What I would do is to bring in the pension experts of the country, take a look at it, and strengthen the pension requirements further, because it's not just enough to have the guarantee. We had a guarantee on the S&Ls, right? [Referring to the S&L Crisis of the 80's and 90's] We had a guarantee -- and what happened? You [the taxpayer] picked up a $500-billion bill because of the dumb way the federal government deregulated it.

The Transcript I used is here.

The government relies on the amnesia of the public.

Folks, I'm 30. I don't remember the S&L scandal, so I don't have the appropriate frame of reference for outright anger in knowing that, what we are going through now, we've been through before. It's all razzle dazzle. The whole "ohh my gosh, we could have never seen this coming" is bull. They've seen it before. They've done it before, and what's worse, it's probably the same people orchestrating it.

All I can hope for is that, with the advent of the Internet, cheap terabyte storage, and more sites like Youtube, that ALL debates, politician promises, and their comments will be readily searchable and catalouged online, so that when the taxpayer is put through something like this, we can refer back: When, if at all, did this happen before? How was it handled? who were the culprits? That way, we can discourage such outright lying and scamming.

TextThese people throughout history has proven time and again that they will stop at nothing to further the agenda of a NWO that their forefathers envisioned long ago beginning with Rhodes. Yes the same Rhodes that offers scholarships to its future puppets to bide the will of the bankster cartel.

Anyone know what's wrong with the above? Somethings not right. If you know, thats valuable; beyond the obvious implication of course.

This site is like one huge 'discovery session' as in legal terms. There are so many links to so much valuable data here on ATS that the law may even subpoena the "content" of this website as evidence or source rather a source to discovery of the facts. Interesting medium.

See there. Everyone here has something to offer. Even if it's hilarious. Where's that little doobie? Gotta light?

Don't worry lol, I'll plead the 5th.

Ceres-Demeter is of the mind that I'm to be forever blessed.
Its been sweet.
WhachatalgonaboutWillis
aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh without a paddle......what happened? What you gonna DO about it?
Where's that dam rat-trap!!

You need to climb out of your cages people.



[edit on 9-10-2008 by Perseus Apex]

Did you hear that Gmail, bless their little hearts, are now requiring the 'folk' to answer five questions before one can send an email after midnight? lol. It's the sign of the times brothers and sisters.

Get on that wagon to nowhere! Smack! No where but down.

I want to see what YOUR going to do about it?

reply to post by tommy_boy


Ross Perot, God bless em. That lil feller knew his charts. I voted forem.

[edit on 9-10-2008 by Perseus Apex]

reply to post by tommy_boy

All I can hope for is that, with the advent of the Internet, cheap terabyte storage, and more sites like Youtube, that ALL debates, politician promises, and their comments will be readily searchable and catalouged online, so that when the taxpayer is put through something like this, we can refer back: When, if at all, did this happen before? How was it handled? who were the culprits? That way, we can discourage such outright lying and scamming.

That's it. Innocence is golden. Others allow 'others' to hijack their conscience. Cowards. There are some heros in the world. They just need a swift kick in the arse. Mothers' what you waitin fA? Don't forget about what Rainer Maria Rilke had to say about Dragons and Princesses?

To all you illuminati folk, NWO boneheads, and the other 'institutions', 'organizations' of familiarity; get lost AH's. Get real losers. You really think your going to create a NWO here in America?

Banksters, the "troll brothers", honestly, I drop my tie, you think you can turn a FREE, EDUCATED, and soon to be 'informed' public, into a FASCIST governed peoples? You guys are a bunch of MORONS!

Don't re-elect any current Senator, House of Losers, or anyone else who's shown cowardice and ignorance. Ron Paul and a few others who, for the record, 'the record' for the 'people' are the exception.

Are their any 'real' Americans in charge of this country? All I see are cowards and weak people who sign their 'retirement' checks. America was not founded on this. I'm shocked at what has gone on here? Wow, its incredible how a 'media' can own the minds of the masses? eh? Well Huh?



[edit on 9-10-2008 by Perseus Apex]

You see. You don't. I'll explain.

You are the law.

They are the mirage.

You have the power.

You 'consent' your power to the other.

Makes me want to throw up, what I see going on here.

It's disgusting. I've never seen so much scum in our government.

They have already learned their lessons, though have not been punished while you maggots sit there and allow this to happen to you?

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...maybe I'm in a different country, though is it not the, "land of the free", "Don't tread on me", "Truth is self evident", and so on?

You've been had. I personally see most of you as serfs. I really do. You do nothing concerning your fate. Are you all a bunch of morons?

You are being taken advantage of "my freinds" You sit there and take it? I've cashed out. Your still in the 'system' hoping, kneeling for the best. Hope you find what your looking for: all I see are crumbs.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Silence is golden they say?

[edit on 9-10-2008 by Perseus Apex]

Thanks for ruining one of the best threads on ATS .. death threw ignorance..