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Our Economy Was Pushed Off the Edge.

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posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 05:56 AM
Can somebody help me with this . . . to correct me if I am on the wrong track . . . .

nakes short selling = cheque kiting

If you write a check on one account, then write another cheque on another account to cover the first cheque written on the initial account (plus a few bucks to spend), then you write a third cheque to cover the second cheque which covers the first cheque . . . all the while you never really have the money but the 'loan' is in electronic limbo until you either run out of cheques or the authorities catch on and arrest your ass for breaking the law.

Am I on the right track here (except nobody has gotten arrested in this NSS scam . . . yet).

posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 06:17 AM
reply to post by GoalPoster

Naked shorting is simply selling stuff that you dont have.

Its like post dating a cheque when you have nothing in your account, but you hope to get something into your account in the future at a lower cost than you could obtain it at today.

Confusing eh? Probably because its paper based trickery!

posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 06:31 AM
Excellent post! I now know a little more about Wall Street dirty deeds. The only thing MORE confusing will be trying to figure out who did what, not that an investigation would ever go that far. Thank you so much for doing something to educate a financial dummy like myself.

How in the world could any of this mess ever be sorted out?

posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 06:46 AM
it seems it would be a pretty straight forward process to know when 'naked shorting' is taking place.

if company XYZ has 100 millions shares, there can be no more than 100 million 'shorts',

then it's a simple as having a algorithm that alerts the SEC regulators that 'shorts' are exceeding the allowable limit... which then leads to discovering the brokers which are issuing the 'shorts' & the clients who are buying the 'shorts'.

the big institutional financial houses which operate as 'custodians' have a full knowledge of all the shares of each stock they are holding for their client accounts. I'm certain that all the Mutual Funds are required to have such a breakdown on hand, instantaneously... so the regulatory bodies can keep track of 'shorting' activity.

the naked shorting phenomena is distracting the public from the precious metals & ETFs flimflam which has several more layers of phantom accounting devices to 'trade''sell' 'swap' non-existant bullion

good walk-through thread,

posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 06:57 AM
The irony of it is a few weeks back they banned naked short selling.

How do you ban something that was illegal in the first place?

What a crock of poop!

[edit on 10/7/2008 by Relentless]

posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 10:01 AM
Wow, great thread OP!

It has already been mentioned, but I still find it a bit strange that when the tables get turned on some of the elite, they start whining and complaining about being wronged, and somebody needs to be punished.
I have never had much confidence in the market, it all just seemed a little bogus...interestingly enough, I recently earned a Master's Degree in finance, and am even more leery of it as a result. What I find most disturbing is this Cede and Co. listed as the legal owners of so much stock;
it would seem to give the investor/owner little recourse should this company say 'we're not giving you your stocks, we are the owners...see, it has our name on it'. They can't say it is impossible to show the names of the real owners of said stocks, with current technology and all, but it would be inconvenient in the future when they don't want you to get what should be yours.

posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 10:04 AM

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by Maxmars

It really is criminal how this seemed actively hidden or ignored by almost everyone as long as this didn't affect the big guys.

What's really interesting, is it looks like they really don't plan to permanently fix the problem. So whatever goes on today will or could all happen all over again.

[edit on 6-10-2008 by loam]

They created it,,why would they want to fix it?

In their minds...and its the old saying..."If it aint broke..dont fix it".

They just add more to it and call it a fix. In the it has happend before...bailouts are a term applied to the phrase "take the money and run".


posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 11:02 AM
That has to be one of the best and most informative OPs I have ever read!

Like your premise says, looks like the economy was given a push over the cliff. The sheer audacity of these people is completely breathtaking. What they are getting away with, mind-boggling.

Thanks for a great read

posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 11:10 AM
Great thread! S&F!

Some of the dirty laundry begins to be aired...

And as long as the consumer-based greed finds a willing agent in the Wall Street thievery-scheme, the economies will be in danger of this kind of cynical maneuver.

The fact that a simple solution like living within one's own means could be so unpopular, only maintains Wall Street's sense of invulnerability...

Who said it before, that they would have to outlaw something already illegal?
Brilliant, very sadly true, and it seems, necessary....

posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 03:19 PM
I'm well aware of the naked short selling scheme conducted by the international bankster cartel with DTCC as an unregulated and controlled 'tool' of the trade.

This has been going on for a long time and every effort to stop it has met a iron door of resisitence. I'm currently involved in a class action lawsuit of which is involved in naked short selling.

I advise everyone out there to get together and get your money back from this massive act of worldwide financial fraud. Come together as shareholders and form a class action lawsuit whereby distributing the fees among the class action litigants. Get your money back or remain a victim. You can do it if you come together in unity.

Many times a securities attorney will accept payment at the resolution of the case without requiring much money up front to take the case on. DTCC is owned by Rothschild, Rockefeller, Morgan, Warburg and a few others who basically own half the worlds assets though conceal their ownership in shell accounts and trusts further hidden in offshore foreign bank accounts with nondisclosure clauses of which allows the banksters to conceal their identities.

This truely is the largest scam in the history of the world. Their consolidation of the worlds banking assets, of which is 'on schedule' as well as any other major commodity of the world is a means to the end of a NWO where they are to be the supplier of a one world currency and enslave the world at large via perpetual indebtness.

If the investing public was defrauded, as they obviously have been, they should be legally entitled to retrieve those assets of which were confiscated via fraud (illegal gotten gains). Get your money back. Audit all the firms involved and that will do the trick. Exposure is what they fear the most. They have their agents in control of every important financial post in the financial industry. These agents are groomed from childhood, often via 'scholarships' to assume these positions of power and influence to serve these unseen masters whom control your lives more than you know.

Audit the IRS, Federal Reserve, IMF, The World Bank and the Bank for International Settlements. Form a consortium of international auditors to conduct a thorough investigation into the massive stock, option, commodity, futures and naked short selling markets.

Once this is achieved, their 'system' will come tumbling down and the people may finally find justice and retribution from those whom have perpetrated this massive scheme of fraud, deception and manipulation.

Expose them and rid them from the worlds financial system all together. Imprison them for life for the crimes against humanity. Its up to you to demand restitution and to fix the financial system. The laws they have set up for themselves to protect their activities are null and void since they violated the very laws they were to uphold in assuming ownership of the entire financial industry.

Serious Anti-trust violations are at work here as well since this same international bankster elite own majority interest in the worlds largest stocks, commodities and any industry of any importance. These same banksters own 51% to 90% of the worlds gold mines, diamond mines, oil companies, defense companies, intelligence software companies and every important industry in between. In other words they a 'controlling' shareholders and can move the stock market at their discretion.

If you desire to know more, refer to my prior posts here on ATS.
Demand justice or remain a financial slave to a system of which was 'designed' to crash for the international bankster cartel to consolidate US assets for pennies on the dollar. Its a repeat of what they're families did in the Great Depression, the crash of 1987 etc. Their consolodating the worlds assets for their control and your financial enslavement in perpetude.

Fight the system and demand justice. Take your assets back of which was stolen via fraud and foreclosure.

[edit on 8-10-2008 by Perseus Apex]

posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 05:00 PM
Blaming naked short sellers is ridiculous. Short sellers can only make the stock price go down. They can't make the business fail. Once the stock price gets low enough, the company and/or other investors can start buying up the stock, and then the short sellers have to cover, and the price of the stock goes back up.

Even if they are naked short sellers, they still have to worry about margin requirements. In other words, they have to put up so much money to ensure they can buy back the stock. If they don't, they automically have to buy it back.

The ways for fraudulent short sellers to make money don't require naked shorts. If you controlled the company in question, you just short the stock, steal all the companies assets. Next, the company goes bankrupt, and you don't have to cover your short. Everyone who invested in the company loses their money.

posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 05:10 PM
i think to blame naked short selling as the main culprit is akin to blaming the rain (instead of the driver) for someone driving 100 mph down a wet road and crashing.

all these company's desired and made the CONSCIOUS decision to increase profits by increasing LEVERAGE (and RISK) to absurd levels from 10-12X 1 to 30-50x 1 and then when there are minor changes in the values of underlying (inflated assets) there capital base is subject to being wiped out, they have so much bad debt on off-balance sheet vehicles and none of them trust each other, and large groups of traders with big $$ (i.e hedge funds can gang up and short certain company's to drive there price down) doesn't have to be naked short selling, just short selling. Also world Food and Oil prices can be driven up by the same type of Leveraged Speculation, which traders tend to pile into either way when they anticipate a sustained move either up or down in the Dollar. The company's themselves taking the risks, and the regulators (clue-less , paidoff, and fraudulent) are the Main culprits IMO

[edit on 7-10-2008 by cpdaman]

posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 05:52 PM
reply to post by loam

Thank you Loam.. that was one of the most inciting postings I have read on ATS in god knows how long..

When I got off work (I work for one of these big banks right now..... and for some reason They do not allow news to be watched on campus?) anyways, I get off work, I had read your thread in the morning and all day we where debating whether or not the markets would be up .. or down .. I said down maybe 100 points at the most.. I mean, it cannot get beaten two days running? ... my God.. I literally cannot say what I said out loud when I got home and saw my Etrade market streamers flashing red all over and it says -508 ...

Where will it hit bottom? I am usually pessimistic when it comes to the markets, I trade more conservative then most, and hold off buying when ever I even get the inclination the markets will take a hit.. but even this today surpasses my range of comprehension ..

The DOW is nearing 8,999 with accelerating speed..

FIVE YEARS of economic advances wiped out..

Top news story? Who will win the debate...

I sent a letter to CNN which I USUALLY defend as being the fairest and most honest news network .. I would post my E-mail but most of it would break censor rules.. don't want to ruin Loam's thread now..

I have never given into fear.. never promoted it.. I always with my threads and posts declare rationality king above all else.. fear only generates fear, and fear causes irrationality. A cycle of self destruction .. I am sure most of us have seen the ATS thread where a member went around asking banks when the bank holiday was and posted a thread saying all the banks where shutting down on Monday .. (Columbus Day) .. fear distorts our rational way of thought, creating fictitious scenarios that arouse more fear, coupled with stronger irrationality, where do you draw the line from reality, and a world you develop around your self with self imposed lies?

But now.. I have to wonder.. when do we, through rationality, begin to fear? Panic? And if it arouses irrationality, is it possible to rationally irrational?

The DOW nearing 8,999 so fast, makes me wonder.. the handle we have on our Capitalist system, how strong is it? Are these interventions being used to secure the wealth and capital of a few, while the masses are being prepared for slaughter? Financial doom? EVER action our government has taken has benefited no one but themselves.. from proposing a bill that rapes our constitution, to raping the bill that rapes our constitution, politicians get what they want, in this dillerious wilderness they live in.. we see through them, powerless, watching our 401k's and mutual funds and private trading accounts drop like rocks..

All the while the headlines read "Fed to loan hundreds of billions ... Treasury to buy hundreds of billions .. World countries unite to infuse hundreds of billions.."

In the hopes that through some obscene, undescribed way trickle down economics will help us? That in the end WE benefit.. that WE, we the people cannot exist with the like of Bank of America, Chase, Berkley, Royal Bank of Scotland, Fortis, etc, etc, etc ..

So I really, really have to ask.. have to ponder, WHEN do we start FEARING, through rationality, embrace irrationality and protect our selves from this system? .. I for one .. am very close to pulling all cash reserves from my bank, taking all funds from the market and hiding in my closet for the next year..

How bad will it get, and when will to bad be bad enough to make things ..... really bad?

posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 05:59 PM
Just in today from the Federal Reserve... the Federal Reserve will be buying Commercial Paper .. essentially notes that are borrowed at short term intervals for short term funding .. such as California, instead of borrowing 7billion from the Gov, could have borrowed Commercial Paper..

Many objected saying this would cost the Federal Reserve substantial amounts of money to operate.. however.. the official announcement was "The Federal Reserve essentially produces money from nothing, even it cost us anything, the Federal Reserve can print the money to cover the cost"

Makes sense right?

posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 06:02 PM
reply to post by loam

That was a great post
Full of information and tidbits that I plan on sharing with my friends.

Starred and flagged!

posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 07:35 PM
Do you belive that it's a big conspricy to demolish the middle class and turn this into a third world country?

posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 08:47 PM
Starred, Flagged, Dugg, and linked to from my Myspace. I think everyone should do the same. People need to know what's going on in the world.

I wish somebody would flat out [snip] the [snip] in their [snip] sleep.

Pre-snipped for the moderators' convenience...

posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 10:37 PM
best. thread. ever.

Thanks OP! good work

posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 10:42 PM
Loam - well done. excellent post.

I would only add that -

1 - don't forget "uptick rule" cancelation by head of SEC Cox
several months back.
This rule was added in 1929 and basically prevented short
sales in lack of an uptick. Removal of this rule, again only
several month back, opened the gates of HELL for naked
short sellers to short as much, whenever, and whatever.

2 - to those who still claim that "naked shorting is NOT a problem"
I have only this to say:
"You gents are either disinfo agents or are asleep and if so WAKE UP!".
Naked short selling is THE PROBLEM. Try to finance a company
be it a young revolutionary biotech OR, by now, large US bank,
when you stock price goes down and down more.
Not a single lender will come to your help, and if they will the
conditions will be HORRIBLE - get GS 10% preferred share
investment by Buffet. 10% return! How about that!

3 - Warren Buffet himself said that US is under ecomonic Pearl Harbor.
What does it say to you? Not a tsunami, or a wildfire - but Pearl
US was attacked. Time will reveal the details BUT naked shorting
was the weapon. Period.

4 - also, reading some recent posts for past several days, I couldn't not
notice some clearly anti-semitic themes. Please - market crash has
nothing to do with it. I'm a jew and I have nothing whatsoever to do
with Rothchilds and other NWO proponents if any of these are indeed
such. If anything, and while we still have freedom of speech and free
internet, I want to say that anyone who contributed to this "scheme"
should become an embarrassement for ages regardless of their origin.

again, original post is great. And thanks for that.
best regards.

posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 10:49 PM
reply to post by crontab

How can one cover a position of which has become naked sold short? When a stock is naked sold short, assuming NO MORE SHARES are to be issued further diluting the shares outstanding, how is one to buy back shares (covering your short position) if those shares are not available to re-purchase? It's fraud plain and simple and don't try deceive those otherwise or try to convince those here that know not how the 'system' works.

It's called a death spiral. For those who don't know the term, Google it if you so choose to take that path.

Try your cloak and disinformation with another, but don't do it on my watch unless you are prepared to defend your position of which you never clarified to begin with. All I've seen is you trolling to see who knows what and spreading disinformation among those who know not how to judge the topic at hand.

How do stocks allow for covering shares of which were naked sold short? They do it by further diluting the shares outstanding and then some as necessary. One who has a controlling interest in a stock can choose to issue as many shares as they like (or can get authorized by the corrupt DTCC) to enable one to cover the shares of which were naked sold short. When one issues more shares to dilute the stock, they decrease the value of the stock, in essence they are manipulating the shareholders into selling their stock at depressed prices. These shares are depressed because they have been diluted.

Let's imagine that I'm a member of the Isreali or Russian mafia and I decide to enter the game of penny stock fraud.

I, as a penny stock fraudster, for example, can issue as many shares outstanding as I please. My shareholders have no say in the matter anyhow since they never have a controlling shareholdership of the stock in question. I do, therefor I make the decisions. Penny stocks are also not regulated as the other exchanges are; well as you were 'led' to believe anyhow.

It should be illegal for any 'firm', insider, hedge fund controlling shareholder or other 'PTB' to be allowed to NAKED short sell a stock with shares that don't exist to cover with in the first place. It's up to the DTCC to manage this and they 'manage' it alright.....right to their bank accounts. AUDIT THE DTCC. Then stand as the figure of Edvard Munch's, painting, "Scream".

Anyone supporting naked short selling should IMMEDIATELY be investigated for fraud. It is dishonest, corrupt, against reason and jurisprudence etc.

The problem is, we as a people have been led to believe that greed and selfishness is the way to happiness. I have news for those who, by freewill, choose this line of thinking. Look at your lives. When you violate human natural law, you suffer, plain and simple.

Greed, selfishness, dishonesty, disinformation, payoffs, blackmail, assassinations, etc. will destroy you within. It is a lie. Those guilty of the above will be prosecuted, persecuted, and live in their own self imposed hell in the cell. YOU become prisoners of your own making. This is how natural law works.

These are the works of the weak and desperate of society. Some may have great 'financial' wealth though NOT ONE has happiness. They are to live short, miserable lives. The longer they live, the more they will suffer by their actions. This is by design. You violate human natural law, you suffer the consequences.

This is the true law among humanity. Do unto others as you would have done unto you. You need not a man-made Bible to tell you this. It is self-evident as all truth is.

[edit on 7-10-2008 by Perseus Apex]

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