Israel expected to bomb Iran, French foreign minister says

Rook1545

The activities carried out under the Jewish flag are frightening. Many Jews are scared of what Israel is doing because it is done in their name when they really want no part of it.

Very true.
I know some who have said nothing on earth would ever make them visit there,let alone live there.

A Rabbi i know is the first one who mentioned to me that the Jews have no right to the land because they are not keeping God's Divine Laws.He,and many others are deeply ashamed.




breakingdradles

that could be the best post i've seen on ATS ever

Which post







[edit on 24-10-2008 by jakyll]

reply to post by mind is the universe

Israel hasn't threatened to wipe out anyone. Iran has. That's why it isn't an offensive threat to the region for Israel to have nuclear weapons, but it is beyond sanity for Iran who has threatened Israel to have the bomb.

Note I didn't use the word you seem to favor - Zionists. Why don't you show us all on the map where the Zionists nation is.

And finally Mind, I've had no problem answering you or Jakyll. I just can't type slowly enough for you to understand. And it isn't looking good in the future, either.

Well, I am really not on either side of this debate at this moment, but I must ask this question - if Israel is so hell bent on destroying any of its neighbors and taking over the entire region, or destroying the entire region or (insert favorite rant here), why have they not nuked 'em? what are they waiting for? It is obvious to me that they care little for world opinion or they would comply with current UN mandates.

Seriously, opinions please!

Originally posted by dooper
Israel hasn't threatened to wipe out anyone. Iran has.

Right wing propaganda precisely.

Prove Iran has.

reply to post by mind is the universe


Don't bother trying to get through.

People like him cannot grasp the fact that Israel threatened Iran first and that is why they Iran is in this position:defending themselves.

As i said in an earlier thread,people like this fear knowing that they have been lied to and manipulated.So they deny the evidence thats right in front of them.





[edit on 25-10-2008 by jakyll]

reply to post by DisgustedOne

It is obvious to me that they care little for world opinion or they would comply with current UN mandates.

Yup.
You just need to look at the various evidence i've posted on this thread to see that they never have.

The question is;why have we and the US been turning a blind eye to it all??

Originally posted by Max_TO


"Iran with an atomic bomb is unacceptable at all,” Mr Kouchner said. “Is the alternative to bomb first? I

(visit the link for the full news article)



ANY country with an atomic bomb is unacceptable at all, not only Iran, N. Korea etc....
there are more than 28000 xxxxx xxxxxxx....atomic bombs on this planet...

you and your govern!mental! friends from all over this world, give up your stupid bombs and do what you are suppose to do, leading this world into a better place , for all of us and not just for your chosen ones.

Before you even start thinking about killing ....

And dear mr. kouchner and all the other people manipulating this world..., I m sure someone in charge will read this post, be aware of this: truth cant be hidden, because when you almost have forgotten about it, it will kreep out of somewhere.

puuuhhh....


[edit on 25-10-2008 by mae_thoranee]

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by DisgustedOne

 

It is obvious to me that they care little for world opinion or they would comply with current UN mandates.

Yup.
You just need to look at the various evidence i've posted on this thread to see that they never have.

The question is;why have we and the US been turning a blind eye to it all??

Yes, but.... why don't they just they it over with? I have followed this thread for some time now, I think I know what the positions are in the debate. As I stated before, I am basically politically neutral on this subject, there is enough wrong headedness on this to go around; everybody has some, myself included. I probably should take a stand either way, but I am not ready to do that yet. I'm a big boy, I'll take the criticism for that. If I must take a stand for anything, it is this: complete disarmament. But I am a realist, it ain't gonna happen, and we all know the reasons why not: Man is a barbarian. And that brings us back to the question - If I were Israel, what is stopping me from nuking my enemies and and living a safer, happier existence?

reply to post by DisgustedOne

If I were Israel, what is stopping me from nuking my enemies and and living a safer, happier existence?

Because they would find themselves alone and universally condemned.
Having support from others helps add validity to actions.But right now even the US,Israel's greatest ally,is having 2nd thoughts about the bombing of Iran.

reply to post by DisgustedOne

And that brings us back to the question - If I were Israel, what is stopping me from nuking my enemies and and living a safer, happier existence?

The only possible reason - Israel is a normal country, with pluses and minuses. It is not full of blood thirsty zionists that are there only to shoot on peaceful Palestinian streets and kill as many children as they can while stealing inner organs, and it is not filled by angels striving only for the best of humanity. Israel does not nuke anybody for the same reason UK/France/Russia and others do not nuke its neighbors.
It is just very easy due to numerous reasons for any person to draw horns on Israel and feel good about himself, as if his country did not do something nasty throughout the history. Israel exists for 60 years, it was born in a war and this conflict continues with changing ferocity. And the funny thing is that the more Israel tries to reach peace with its neighbors and Palestinian population, the worse it is painted by people that are at least a little hypocritical.
Edit- Fpelling..

[edit on 25-10-2008 by ZeroKnowledge]

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


Peace in the ME. It makes you wonder if it's going to be possible. If Israel maintains its Jewish majority through whatever means is there ever going to be the possibility of peace in a land that is very Muslim and apart from Israel is becoming even more so with the demise of many of the Christian and other beliefs. Surrounded by a millios of hostile peoples how can Israel survive, especially as these countries gain the knowledge through modern WMD to destroy Israel in seconds if the situation arises.

reply to post by ufoorbhunter


I do not know what will happen and how things will evolve - and i think that no person really does. So the scenario you describe can happen. And it can be different. There are periods i think that peace is possible if time will heal mutual wounds, and sometimes i think that there will be not enough time and extremism will drown the region in blood.
But one thing i know - Israel is in the Middle East, with Arab,Muslim neighbors. This is a well known fact, of course. But to me it means that at least an attempt to become if not friendly (i see no possibility of that) but at least passively negative neighbors should be attempted. How can a person live in neighborhood while all neighbors not only dream, but do things to throw him out? To fight for existence while trying to make things less edgy is an only option. But it is next to impossible. So, as i said, i do not know what the future will bring.

It does make one wonder how on Earth this thing will ever be solved, without one day Israel being attacked by nation states or more probably by a terror cell with WMD that will kill say a million Israelis. I say this as technology becomes more accessible year on year. I just don't see how peace can be achieved. You know as well as me it's pure hatred out there. Even Israels ally Turkey is a set up, I was out there on holiday years ago and tested the locals. I visited about a hundred shops and market sellers asking for an Israeli soccer shirt, most wouldn't even look once I'd mentioned Israel, they'd turn nasty immediately and ask you to go! I lived out in Israel for a year Zero and got friendly with quite a few Arabs etc. Even a Druse told me confidentially he wanted Jews out of the region, they consider it their land stolen, right or wrong that's how they feel and sixty years makes no difference to them, none at all, I mean it's hardly a lifetime in the history of the region. I just look down the line when this inevitable thing happens, terror can be fought and fought and fought in Lebanon and Iran then another will appear, then another, then another. Just maybe making Israel an internation state for all religions will appease the terrorists but will the Israeli Zionist establishment ever go for it? I'm so pro Israel Zero but sometimes I just feel that a state of the US or Canada should be given to the Jews and all the people should relocate there before what I see in the future becomes a reality. I mean how long can a person continue to fight and expect to deliver the knock out punch every time, when he knows just one counter punch taken badly will leave him open to certain murder at the hands of a mob hell bent on revenge?

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

But one thing i know - Israel is in the Middle East, with Arab,Muslim neighbors. This is a well known fact, of course. But to me it means that at least an attempt to become if not friendly (i see no possibility of that) but at least passively negative neighbors should be attempted.

I quoted this in another thread,because it appears that Israel and Iran were,as you describe,passively negative neighbors.

But it wasn’t Iran that turned the Israeli-Iranian cold war warm – it was Israel. In October 1992, prior to Iran’s material support for Palestinian rejectionists, the Shimon Peres/Yitzhak Rabin government undertook a major campaign to depict Iran and Shi’a Islamic fundamentalism as a global threat.
Even though Iran was weak militarily after the devastating war with Iraq, Rabin told Israel’s Knesset (parliament) in 1993 that Israel’s “struggle against murderous Islamic terror” was “meant to awaken the world which is lying in slumber” of the dangers of Shi’a fundamentalism. “Death is at our doorstep”, Rabin said of Iran – though he only five years earlier dismissed Iran’s rhetoric as inconsequential.

The Israeli reversal on Iran was partially motivated by the fear that its strategic importance would diminish significantly in the post-cold war middle east if the then president (1989-97) Hashemi Rafsanjani’s outreach to the Bush Sr administration was successful. Also, the geopolitical map of the middle east had changed. Israel no longer needed Iran to balance Iraq and the Arabs – rather, Iran was now a potentially powerful regional player who could become a threat. And according to Israel’s military doctrine, potential threats are to be treated as existing threats.

www.opendemocracy.net...

If they existed in such a way before,then they should be able to do so again,but only if Israel leaves Palestinian land.If they do,Iran will have no need to support the terrorists/freedom fighters of these areas and Israel has no reason to fear Iran.






[edit on 25-10-2008 by jakyll]

reply to post by jakyll

So you assume that handing over land to the Pals will appease all the hostile people and states out there to Israels existence? I doubt it will. Look at Gaza as an example. Where did giving land there lead to more peace. Or southern Lebanon?
To be honest I don't think the enemy of Israel will ever be appeased as long as a 'Jewish' state exists in the region. Can you see a time when the two sides can live in peace?

reply to post by ufoorbhunter


Hatred is there, of course. But not by all - there is an Israeli football player in Turkey and he is not the first. Also, as long as it does not materialize into leader whose hatred will out-weight his practical choices this situation is not "deadly". I am sure that current leader of Turkey is not very fond of Israel. But political situation inside and outside his country dictates certain behavior (like two countries being allies). This is something that is fine with me. Israel will not be liked by its neighbors even if it will behave as a white fluffy likable bunny. As long as practical needs will out weight emotional or other drives, the situation will probably not evolve into conflict.
As for massive moving out, i think that it is not an option. For lot of reasons. Frankly (and personally) if i was that journalist from Vienna, i would not start this despite all the dreams, prayers and persecutions. But Israel exists now, it is a home to many and home is not something you leave even if situation is not bright. Consider this simple motive - for two thousand years saying "If i forget Jerusalem - forget my right hand" and then after so much blood and sacrifices simply turning off the lights (with active right hand) is not possible, even on subconscious level. However i really understand and appreciate your concern.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

Zero after all the things Israel has had to live with it's wonderful you have that attitude. Home is where the heart is and as you say after two thousand years it would be a bit daft to give it all up now. Israel is a miracle no two ways about it.
I also understand the need for a 'Jewish' state following the history of the Jewish people and its inabilty to fight back against all the historic enemies with no organised fighting force or threatened response to crimes and persecution of its people.
It's going to be a hard battle but it as you have stated can be won on the personal level. I have met many Israeli Arabs who do see a future with the Jews, Egyptians and Lebanese too who will accept something and know Israel is not going to disappear. If anything many I've met have a respect for the Jewish people and acknowledge the need for this home.

If Iran is taken out of the equation through whatever means, political, military, maybe then the Hamas and Hisbollah will one day go away but I don't know. It's a crazy world we live in and you guys are right there in the middle of it all. I just don't want all the wonderful people I know hurt in the future due to some evil act of terror.

reply to post by ufoorbhunter

So you assume that handing over land to the Pals will appease all the hostile people and states out there to Israels existence? I doubt it will. Look at Gaza as an example. Where did giving land there lead to more peace. Or southern Lebanon?

Not at all,but its a step in the right direction.
And Gaza hasn't had peace because of Israel's illegal occupation of it.The same with the Golan Heights and the West Bank.


And there actions are not against the Jews,it is against Israel.

The day Hamas won the Palestinian democratic elections the world's leading democracies failed the test of democracy. Rather than recognise the legitimacy of Hamas as a freely elected representative of the Palestinian people, seize the opportunity created by the result to support the development of good governance in Palestine and search for a means of ending the bloodshed,the US and EU threatened the Palestinian people with collective punishment for exercising their right to choose their parliamentary representatives.We are being punished simply for resisting oppression and striving for justice....

Our message to the US and EU governments is this: your attempt to force us to give up our principles or our struggle is in vain. Our people who gave thousands of martyrs, the millions of refugees who have waited for nearly 60 years to return home and our 9,000 political and war prisoners in Israeli jails have not made those sacrifices in order to settle for close to nothing....

Our message to the Israelis is this: we do not fight you because you belong to a certain faith or culture. Jews have lived in the Muslim world for 13 centuries in peace and harmony; they are in our religion "the people of the book" who have a covenant from God and His Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) to be respected and protected. Our conflict with you is not religious but political. We have no problem with Jews who have not attacked us - our problem is with those who came to our land, imposed themselves on us by force, destroyed our society and banished our people.
We shall never recognise the right of any power to rob us of our land and deny us our national rights. We shall never recognise the legitimacy of a Zionist state created on our soil in order to atone for somebody else's sins or solve somebody else's problem. But if you are willing to accept the principle of a long-term truce, we are prepared to negotiate the terms. Hamas is extending a hand of peace to those who are truly interested in a peace based on justice.

www.guardian.co.uk...

reply to post by jakyll

So if the muslim world will never accept a Zionist state and the Israeli leadership unable to make peace with the numerous enemies of the state we seem to be at a never ending deadlock of perpetual conflict. considering this, do you think that Israels destruction through armed conflict or more likely an act of terror using WMD is only a matter of time?

reply to post by ufoorbhunter


No.
Israel can exist without the Zionist regime,just as Russia has survived without Communism.

Don't forget,Zionism is just a secular political movement,and there are even Jews who do not support it.Israel's survival does not depend on them.


Israel's actions in the last 60yrs have done a lot of damage,but bridges can be built because the countries of the Middle East do not want another all out conflict.That course of action would help no one.





[edit on 25-10-2008 by jakyll]