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What's the purpose of a production system...Production and Surplus or Profits?

The bailout will shore up the production system, it was not intended to protect the profit system. That is why the stock market is falling.

For some reason people are under the very false belief that a rising stock market is good and a falling stock market is bad. The stock market can fall and the economy can grow. My proof: last year this time the stock market was at 14000+ even though there is constant chatter about a recession, no recession has been recorded. Indeed, the economy expanded while the stock market fell precipitously.

Stock prices are a combination of profits, growth in profits and expectations related to the two. Profits only exist in inefficient markets.

The people who want you to believe that a rising stock market means a strong economy are liars. The two don't have as much to do with one another as many think and others would have you believe. Therein lies the conspiracy.

The profiteers are fleeing the markets of the world with what loot is still there, as they realize no profits will exist in the future. The productioners are taking back ownership of the production facilities on the cheap. Its actually quite beautiful.

Just to correct an error I'm surprised nobody has caught yet, the Dow was under 10,000 as recently as 2004, not 1999.

Everyone has heard the story about the rich old man who was forced to go to work selling apples after the stock market crash during the depression. The part of the story no one is told is that the old man reagined his fortune and died rich. Nothing good or bad lasts forever. This to shall pass.

reply to post by burdman30ott6

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To further this point, the DOW actually closed at 8341 in December 2002.

It's been lower for sure...these just seem more drastic, but if SUSTAINED losses are felt then we'll know the S-really did-HTF ...time's measure rusts as it crawls, and it's the only way to find out.


AB1

Forever is a LONG time...its not a matter of IF it will pass...it will. But how long will it last is the true question.

I think some people might have confused some things said on bubblevision...er CNBC. They were saying earlier that the dow is at the same level it was in 1999 earlier.

Hold on there - You're jumping the gun WAYYYY to early by saying it didn't work and blaming the Dow's fall on the bailout. I am/was against the bailout like the next guy, but you can't expect something that big to take effect immediately, especially with the market being as volatile as it is. Read the market dispatches on MSN. The Dow is being brought down by European banks at the moment. And, the bailout that was voted in hasn't taken effect. It takes time for that much money to make it into circulation. I would imagine it will take at least a couple of months to see if the bailout has any effect at all.

reply to post by eradown

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With all due respect era, to try and comfort a nation where one man turns apples into affluence, while the other 99 around him drop dead of starvation is not exactly the solace I think most are looking for.

However, that being said, I DO have apples, and anyone interested.....


AB1

Actually, I believe the market dipped below 10k in 2003 last. However, even though I don't believe the bail out was right or will work, it is still simply too soon to reap any benefits from it.

My views on the bailout are completely different than the economy. I won't go there. This is a sign that things aren't going to get better anytime soon. Will we be forced into cannabalism like Russia during the middle part of last century? I don't believe so. But are we facing harsh, money tight times? Well, the writing has been on the wall for a LONG time. I think it's time to take the people responsible for this to task.

Our government is supposed to be there to represent us. Not to benefit from the bribery of large corporations. Well, it's time to tell them that it is simply NOT acceptable.

However, I fear that many will simply keep living their lives as they have been. Watching TV, say hi and good night to your kids for a total of 30 seconds of interaction a day, kiss your spouse (if you have one) goodnight for the 10 seconds of interaction, then simply sleep some more. I don't say go back to sleep because the bulk of this country IS ALREADY ASLEEP.

Time to wake up and make these people pay dearly for their thievery.

And to put this in perspective, it was when the dot com bubble burst. From Jan of 2002 to Dec of 2002 the DOW lost 16.76% of it's value.

The housing bubble burst may end up making the dot com look like a slow burst

I got in an interesting arguement with my roommate last night. He was saying if there was a global economic crash it would "not be that bad". He claimed governments would be able to have relief teams and food to go around. Are people really that stupid?

I'm just posting this as a point of reference. The Dow since 1928.

Looking at it can give a general overview (to those who don't already know it) of how it's looked over the course of time just prior to the Great Depression, and everything that follwed since.





AB1

The bailout package wasnt designed to take effect immediately. Just because it was passed didnt mean it went into immediate effect. In fact some of the first monies involved with package wont be available for weeks. A lot of people on here act like this money has already been distributed to the banks.

I don't think as many people will starve to death as the elites would like. There is a reason why no one was ever told that the old man did not starve to death during the depression ,that the old man regained everything he had lost and then some. The souless things responsible for the latest crash want everyone to give up. This to shall pass.

Ok I can't find a thread on this but have heard rumors...

Should we be taking money out of our bank today? ....Or is it safe? Can anyone report me to a link on this?

Sty: That is an awesome question. Who/what is behind all this? My gut reaction is to blame terrorists, who instead of putting fear into us with violence, decided to some how mess with the USA economic system (hence the rest of the world's as some "trickle sideways" effect). However, after looking at my friends and neighbors, who many of them are racked up to the sky with credit card debt, never pay their mortgage on time, 5 TVs, 10 cell phones, a mansion bigger than a king's, etc... I'm wondering if the "trickle down" effect now has some kind of odd reverse "trickle up" effect... where the little guy is truly affecting big business.

reply to post by sty

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Is your bank FDIC insured? If you have $250,000 or less you are okay. The situation at hand is with the stock market. You have a lot of stock? You may want to sell.

Yes it is. But even then, I heard that the money will be frozen? FDIC insured or not..?

This a very good prediction. Were most likely to see further and bigger drops tomorrow, once those who though the 'bailout' might work see the reality of it.