Persecution or Imagination

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posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 11:55 PM
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Originally posted by daeoeste
Some Christians here in America believe they are persecuted because of their new interpretation of ancient texts are rightly ridiculed when they shout them out at the top of their lungs and try to legislate these insane ideas.Proselytizing a belief system does not have to include making it secular law.It is wrong that some Christians overseas are still persecuted and it should stop.Just because Christianity has been responsible for mass murder in the past does not make it right to murder them here in the present.But,you will find that contemporary persecution is not limited to Christians in these countries that have been mentioned in this thread.Dissenters of all kinds have been persecuted.Political and religious.So the argument that Christians are still being martyred wholesale is ludicrous.By the way, "Rapture" is probably one of the silliest(and newest)ideas I have ever heard.It ranks right up there with the "lord xenu" myths of the scientologists as far as I am concerned.

[edit on 113131p://1217 by daeoeste]

Exactly. And thank you for staying on topic.

It restoreths my faith in human intelligence when responders get the point of the OP.




posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 11:56 PM
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Originally posted by mmariebored
You just proved my case that "christians" are the ones who run around persecuting people who don't believe what they do. Just look at your very judgmental avatar...oh yeah, that's going to get me to join your faith...and you stole that artwork without permission, by the way, shame on you..."christian"...


????? Are you now claiming that YOU are persecuted? On a glorified message board? If so, you are elevating petty annoyances to uncharted heights.

And are you implying that someones AVATAR is complicit in that persecution? This is getting more ridiculous by the minute.

And to top things off, you say that her avatar is judgmental and then accuse her of theft without having any first hand knowledge of the situation. Are you the owner of the artwork? Have you contacted the artist to see if the rights were given away or sold? Talk about being judgmental.

Sheesh. Get over yourself.

Eric

[edit on 5-10-2008 by EricD]



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by mmariebored
 


Ah, I recognize you now.

You are ignored... troll.

But not before I remind you of your own words:


I don't believe it's so much "persecution" over there, as it is preventing mass stupidity.


Yes. Agree. Kill them, torture them, confiscate their property, imprison them... to prevent the spread of Christianity... er 'stupidity.'

Ignored.

"Preventing" mass stupidity does not mean I give the thumbs up to kill anyone. Like I said, it's better to close the door on a person pushing a retarded belief to prevent it from infecting you.

"Troll"? That really made me laugh. So, anyone who doesn't believe what you believe is a "troll"? You're funny. Ugly and nasty, but funny.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by asmeone2
Yes I take serious umbrage to the way that some Christians here in the states put someone challenging or ridiculing their beleifs on the same level as someone being killed for them.



Wow. I would feel exactly the same way. If that ever happened. Ever. Which I have never seen nor heard of. Ever. Not once.

But that's just me. Maybe you live in an area populated by mentally unstable Christians who equate people demeaning their beliefs with being killed or tortured.


Eric



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 12:06 AM
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Honestly, I think that we as a country are just whiny in general when it comes to religion. Athiests are persecuted for not believing in any religion, Christians are persecuted by that whole separation of church and state thing, Muslims are persecuted by everyone because of a few idiots from overseas, etc. etc. And yes I do agree that a good chunk of those in the US who claim they are being persecuted really aren't, it's just in their head. What strikes me as amusing though is that there are people who will claim they are being persecuted because they can't post the 10 commandments in a courthouse (just an example), yet turn around and persecute everyone who doesn't believe exactly as they do.



Disclaimer: Yes genocide is bad. No I don't think anyone should be killed for the religious beliefs or lack thereof. Yes some people really are persecuted. No I don't believe my post or the original post contain anything that persecutes Christians, or anyone else for that matter.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by EricD

Originally posted by mmariebored
You just proved my case that "christians" are the ones who run around persecuting people who don't believe what they do. Just look at your very judgmental avatar...oh yeah, that's going to get me to join your faith...and you stole that artwork without permission, by the way, shame on you..."christian"...


????? Are you now claiming that YOU are persecuted? On a glorified message board? If so, you are elevating petty annoyances to uncharted heights.

And are you implying that someones AVATAR is complicit in that persecution? This is getting more ridiculous by the minute.

And to top things off, you say that her avatar is judgmental and then accuse her of theft without having any first hand knowledge of the situation. Are you the owner of the artwork? Have you contacted the artist to see if the rights were given away or sold? Talk about being judgmental.

Sheesh. Get over yourself.

Eric

[edit on 5-10-2008 by EricD]

Eric...every person I've ever seen use the phrase "get over yourself" has ego issues of their own.

Aww, are you protecting your friend? How sweet.

Oh, you didn't notice your friend's very colorful posts puking all over my thread? Verbal abuse is a form of "persecution". NOT that it bothers me one teeny little bit, I'm just pointing out a fact.

(and if this thread is so ridiculous, why do you keep coming back?)



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by mmariebored



I don't believe it's so much "persecution" over there, as it is preventing mass stupidity.


Yes. Agree. Kill them, torture them, confiscate their property, imprison them... to prevent the spread of Christianity... er 'stupidity.'

Ignored.

"Preventing" mass stupidity does not mean I give the thumbs up to kill anyone. Like I said, it's better to close the door on a person pushing a retarded belief to prevent it from infecting you.



Oh, c'mon. You clearly misspoke when you said that it isn't persecution so much as preventing mass stupidity. To try to backtrack now and assign a different meaning is demeaning to yourself and anyone you are conversing with.

Clearly what you wrote implies that you believe that the steps taken against Christians in oppressive regimes are not persecution, but actions taken to limit the populaces ability to engage in self destructive (stupid) behavior.

Unfortunately for you, the steps taken by these regimes include murder and torture.

I don't think that you actually meant to say that or that you actually believe that. I think you made a mistake. To try to go back and change or retrofit your meaning is base sophistry.

You made a mistake. So what? To quote the great scholar Tom Cruise, you were being glib. No bigee. Just don't try to claim otherwise after the fact.

Eric



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 12:12 AM
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reply to post by EricD
 


I think we can all agree on that. Everyone and every group gets ridiculed or laughed at. I would be equally upset if I saw someone actually saying they were on par with Eastern persecution because someone laughed at them. Or called them a 'retarded Christian.'

Just to reiterate, my problem was not with the O.P. itself or the fact sometimes us Western Christians can be melodramatic when we sense we're slighted in some way (I've had my prima donna fits as well). That is totally understandable how the world would look at that and think, 'Huh? Spare me.' The thing that truly pissed me off was the flippant attitude towards Eastern persecution.

[edit on 10/6/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 12:12 AM
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But that's just me. Maybe you live in an area populated by mentally unstable Christians who equate people demeaning their beliefs with being killed or tortured.


Eric


I do live in the Bible Belt... if that's what you mean...



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 12:15 AM
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The Cathars had it coming.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by mmariebored

A) Eric...every person I've ever seen use the phrase "get over yourself" has ego issues of their own.

B) Aww, are you protecting your friend? How sweet.

C) Oh, you didn't notice your friend's very colorful posts puking all over my thread? Verbal abuse is a form of "persecution". NOT that it bothers me one teeny little bit, I'm just pointing out a fact.

D) (and if this thread is so ridiculous, why do you keep coming back?)


A) Thanks! What do I owe you for the down and dirty psychoanalysis? Shoot me a U2U with the payment details and I'll get a check right out.

B) Sorry. I guess I shouldn't have pointed out that you were the pot calling the kettle black.

C) Let me make sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying that I should have commented on her (supposed) verbal excesses in order to have any validity in discussing this thread?

D) Beats me. I'm flipping between this and setting up my fantasy football teams for week 6. I sometimes feel that I don't have the education necessary to 'play with the big boys' on the apologetics field, but this one is pretty easy pickin's. Maybe because it's so easy to reach for the low hanging fruit?

Eric



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by EricD

Oh, c'mon. You clearly misspoke when you said that it isn't persecution so much as preventing mass stupidity. To try to backtrack now and assign a different meaning is demeaning to yourself and anyone you are conversing with.

Clearly what you wrote implies that you believe that the steps taken against Christians in oppressive regimes are not persecution, but actions taken to limit the populaces ability to engage in self destructive (stupid) behavior.

Unfortunately for you, the steps taken by these regimes include murder and torture.

I don't think that you actually meant to say that or that you actually believe that. I think you made a mistake. To try to go back and change or retrofit your meaning is base sophistry.

You made a mistake. So what? To quote the great scholar Tom Cruise, you were being glib. No bigee. Just don't try to claim otherwise after the fact.

Eric

No, it wasn't a "mistake", Eric. It just wasn't meant how she took it.
Because the thread is about a different form of persecution than what goes on overseas. Plus, I believe that the ones killing Christians, as stated already, are killing EVERYONE who doesn't follow the rule systems over there. EVERYONE. Not just Christians. That in no way means I agree with their particular rule system and how they handle people who disobey it.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 12:27 AM
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Originally posted by EricD

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah etc etc etc

Maybe because it's so easy to reach for the low hanging fruit?

Eric

That was witty, I'll admit it.

(writes that one down)



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 12:33 AM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
The thing that truly pissed me off was the flippant attitude towards Eastern persecution.

Oh spare me. You added meaning to what I said...so typical of so-called "christians".

Get the log out of your own eye before searching my eyes for splinters.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 12:36 AM
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reply to post by mmariebored
 


So would you agree that maybe you conveyed yourself poorly? I'm not trying to be a jackass here, but I think that it clearly reads that Christians are not being persecuted, it is the state that is protecting it's charges from their own proclivity for stupidity.

That protection is and has been the torture and murder of people practicing that stupidity.

The fact that Christians aren't the only ones being persecuted isn't germane to the discussion (when strictly discussing your quoted statement, I certainly concede that it is germane to the overall discussion).

Eric



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 12:42 AM
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Originally posted by mmariebored
Oh spare me. You added meaning to what I said...so typical of so-called "christians".


Nope you said:

"I don't believe it's so much "persecution" over there, as it is preventing mass stupidity."

Like someone else already pointed out, unfortunately the 'prevention techniques' include murder, torture, and imprisonment.


Get the log out of your own eye before searching my eyes for splinters.


That's rich coming from someone who is questioning imagined persecution all the while claiming a Christian avatar is persecuting them.

Get real.


"Troll"? That really made me laugh. So, anyone who doesn't believe what you believe is a "troll"? You're funny. Ugly and nasty, but funny.


No- I called you a troll because I just recognized you as the one who had left those profile comments on my profile several weeks ago I had to delete. You really weren't worth remembering at the time but your comment above jogged my memory. So, yes. Troll.

[edit on 10/6/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by EricD
reply to post by mmariebored
 


So would you agree that maybe you conveyed yourself poorly? I'm not trying to be a jackass here, but I think that it clearly reads that Christians are not being persecuted, it is the state that is protecting it's charges from their own proclivity for stupidity.

That protection is and has been the torture and murder of people practicing that stupidity.

The fact that Christians aren't the only ones being persecuted isn't germane to the discussion (when strictly discussing your quoted statement, I certainly concede that it is germane to the overall discussion).

Eric


Eric, what don't you understand about the difference between persecution and enforcing laws in an entirely different system than we have over here in America? You're not going to get from me what you want so forget about it.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 12:45 AM
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Originally posted by AshleyD

Originally posted by mmariebored
China and India have every reason to worry about the spread of religions... I don't believe it's so much "persecution" over there, as it is preventing mass stupidity.


You sick bastard!!!

(Oh and edit to add: Millions of Christians were killed in the concentration camps of WWII. I was so incensed, I forgot to mention that).

[edit on 10/6/2008 by AshleyD]


Now, now...
That kind of language isn't very Christian of you, is it? What have they been teaching you at bible school? Shouldn't the example, and the "teachings", of Jesus put you above the swamp, your words have just put you in?

As for the poor Christians in the concentration camps, there where many more executioners, then executed...



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 12:46 AM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
That's rich coming from someone who is questioning imagined persecution all the while claiming a Christian avatar is persecuting them.

I said your avatar is persecuting me? Can I see a quote on that?

Oh, wait, you added meaning to something I said again, didn't you.

Naughty naughty, shame on you.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 12:48 AM
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Originally posted by NorthWolfe CND
Now, now...
That kind of language isn't very Christian of you, is it? What have they been teaching you at bible school? Shouldn't the example, and the "teachings", of Jesus put you above the swamp, your words have just put you in?


You are absolutely right. My apologies.

I should have gone with brood of vipers, swine, or dogs, or one of the terms Jesus himself used. My bad. Please forgive me.

[edit on 10/6/2008 by AshleyD]





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