Originally posted by badmedia
When it comes to judgment, I look at it like this. I think there is a difference between judging someone, and having an opinion about an action.
I get annoyed at people who judge others. I don't get annoyed at peoples opinions on things.
I see it the same way, and I have no problem with opinions. Everyone is entitled to theirs. But for someone who really is no better than me or anyone
else tell people that they are going to hell for not having the same belief is a step over the line. That isn't an opinion, that's a judgment.
reply to post by Bigwhammy
Thank you, like I said I couldn't recall. It has been awhile since I have read it, so some details are fuzzy to me. So thank you for that.
Originally posted by Lightmare
Although I can look them up for you if you want. If not then thats cool too. I don't want to seem like I'm thumping my Bible at you or anything
like that.
No worries. Like I said, I enjoy a good conversation about religion.
In regards to what happened to you when you were 13, I must say that really sucks. I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. That would have
pissed me off too. Please understand that type of behavior is actually confined to very small sects within Christianity. Even most
"fundamentalists" know better than to act like that.
That's the thing. They weren't a small sect. They weren't wacky crazy people. And they weren't even hard-core fundamentalists. They just decided
that that was the only thing that would "help" me. Apparently listening to the opinions of a "heathen" was the worst thing possible and they
weren't even willing to try. These were people I knew extremely well and they had never acted like that before and haven't since that I am aware
of.
As for the "judge not" thing, I think we agree that the scriptures are quite clear...except for one little problem. I think we can both
agree that we will never meet a "perfect" person from any religion. Which means we will never meet a "perfect" Christian either. The scriptures
will also agree with this. Basically, it sounds like you're saying Christians should just sit down and shut up and not bother to speak the message
at all since we can't be "perfect". This is fallacious on many levels.
For one thing, if anybody, Christians included, could actually be that perfect, there would have been no reason for Christ's redemptive work on the
cross. And thus...no Christianity.
And that was my point. Not that Christians should just sit down and shut up, but that no one is perfect. No one is any better than anyone else. And
assuming that Christianity has the whole religion and God thing completely correct, they are not in a position to tell anyone they are going to hell
for anything. As I have said, it doesn't bother me one tiny bit if someone wants to tell someone else what they believe and why. And I do like the
occasional religious discussion, even though I am wrong about the occasional detail. (Apparently since I keep on coming back!
) However, once it
crosses from discussing their religion to saying theirs is the only way and if you don't follow it too you are going to hell it crosses over into
judging when that is one of the things mentioned in the Bible that you shouldn't do. Just because it isn't in the 10 Commandments doesn't mean
it's ok to do it.
Second. The verses you quoted do not in any way cancel out Christ's call to spread the message. Neither do they indicate that Christians should not
speak out against things that are wrong.
I never meant to insinuate that they did. I believe that everyone, not just Christians, should speak up for those who have been wronged. No one should
stand idly by and allow atrocious things to be inflicted upon fellow human beings. However, there is a difference between spreading a message that at
it's core is a great one, and basically saying it's my way or the highway. That goes for any religion, not just Christianity.
Third. My statement from my previous post still stands. The whole "judge not" thingy was never intended as a means for one person to say
to another "No!!! Don't judge me!!!". It was an admonition to be mindful of one's own walk with the Lord and to have their own act together
before forming any type of opinion of some else's. Hence the part about "then shall you see clearly to remove the mote from your brother's eye".
But it was never intended to be used in the way most people try to use it.
Anyways...sorry for rambling on like that.
No, but I think that my point is still valid. No one is in a position to judge someone else. No one is perfect, everyone makes mistakes. Some more
than others. And really, I don't think there is a person alive who has their act together, as you put it, enough to declare themselves judge of
another's life with the exception of judges in the legal system but they don't declare themselves, they get voted in. It isn't a means to say
"Don't judge me." But it is a reminder that you shouldn't judge anyone regardless of whether or not you think you have the right to. (Generic you,
not specific you.) It is a reminder that just because you think you are right with your God doesn't mean you actually are. It has been my experience
that many of those who do the shoving of religion down others' throats are the very ones who shouldn't be casting stones. Glass houses and all.
And I don't mind the rambling. I do it myself!
