It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Afghanistan war 'cannot be won'

page: 1
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 09:26 PM
link   

Afghanistan war 'cannot be won'


www.news.com.au

BRITAIN'S commander in Afghanistan says the war against the Taliban cannot be won, the Sunday Times has reported.

It quoted Brigadier Mark Carleton-Smith as saying in an interview that if the Taliban were willing to talk, then that might be "precisely the sort of progress" needed to end the insurgency.

"We're not going to win this war. It's about reducing it to a manageable level of insurgency that's not a strategic threat and can be managed by the Afghan army," he said.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 09:26 PM
link   
[sarcasm]
Of course the Afghan war is being won! Look at the profits rolling in for the military industrial complex! Look at how they are blooding troops for combat and testing weapons and tactics.[/sarcasm]

Seriously, what does it take to end this friggin useless war, especially when you have top people in the US and UK forces stating that it can't be won?


But another top US commander, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Mike Mullen, said in September that he was not convinced the United States was winning in Afghanistan.

The United States plans to add 8000 troops to the 33,000 troops in Afghanistan by early next year.


www.news.com.au
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 09:29 PM
link   
What's wrong with it? Most COINs end with a negotiated settlement and the insurgents retuning to politics...



posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 09:32 PM
link   
He's exactly right. Afghanistan- unlike Iraq- can't be pushed into the modern world by military force. However, you can't stop the rain either, but that doesn't mean you don't use an umbrella to block it. NATO will probably be- and should be- in Afghanistan for a long, long time, until it moderates and modernizes on it's own.



posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 09:34 PM
link   
IMHO, The problem w/ the Brits is they try and flood area's w/ personnel thinking that will suppress the problem w/ just their presence. I bet this commander is taking his experiences of Northern Ireland and thinking there is no way they can suppress the Taliban.



posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 09:36 PM
link   
To much profiteering off of people`s deaths. But maybe the financial crash will reduce capital to nothing, disabling the war profiteering act. Maybe it takes a tragedy to bring even the sickest people to their feet, begging for redemption. Capitalism will realign itself in due time. The system is good, but it`s killing itself. It`ll take a restructuring to make things better, including getting out of the middle east. Let them deal with their problems. Western nations need to stop being world police.



posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 09:41 PM
link   
Wow, a simple look back into history tells anyone that. I would find such irony if it turned out that Russia has been funding the Taliban to defeat the US army in a war of attrition.




posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 09:42 PM
link   

Originally posted by Sublime620
Wow, a simple look back into history tells anyone that. I would find such irony if it turned out that Russia has been funding the Taliban to defeat the US army in a war of attrition.


After Russia douched the countryside with "yellow rain", I don't think too many Afghans want to deal with them. Shoot them, but not deal with them.

But then again, I could be wrong.



posted on Oct, 5 2008 @ 09:53 PM
link   
This is my take on Afghanistan, I served there on three occasions so I have some time in country and have had substantial time meeting with persons of interest and taking in what others have expressed so here it is:

Afghanistan is a very interesting country, The weather is harsh and the terrain is unforgiving and will leave even the fittest of soldier gasping for air. This country has been at war for years and will continue to be, Taliban actually means "Students" and AQ(Al qaeda) means "the base" these people are fanatics who wil die for what they believe in, They beat General Gromov and the Russians out of there and across Friendship Bridge in Feb of 1985 and we have seen signs that its not just afghans and other middle eastern freedom figters, its Uzbeks and Chechans that are also going there to fight, I believe that we are doing a stalwart job there, ISAF(I SUCK AT FIGHTING) is as useless as a screen door on a submarine, Great Britain is alot of help but we are going to be there for a long time. However we will prevail but at what cost, You cannot put a price on human life and its an expensive war because of the equipment and weapons we are using and the type of soldier there is not your average garden variety grunt and the time and training that are spent on getting soldiers ready for a special operations war takes time. In my own opinion and in closing I feel that we need to be there maybe not Iraq but we are needed in Afghanistan.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 06:02 AM
link   
HAHAHA the world's best armies cannot defeat hillbilly's on camels with sticks as Donald Rumsfeld quoted when the war started in 2001.


The US, British and NATO forces always seem to make excuses like 'ohh the terrain is very harsh and we start to have fits when we fight in higher altitudes',Well DUHHHH you guys are paid and trained to fight in these 'harsh terrains'.

Coming back to the topic
This is just typical British reaction when the pressure builds on them.We have seen how the British retreated when the Mahdi militias mortared the crap outa British forces in Basra and they finally came down to negotiations and chickened out.

The question that seems to come to my mind is that do the British retreat because they don't wana loose thousands of soldiers for the interests of US/Israel or are they really incapable of fighting tough enemies?



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 06:32 AM
link   

Originally posted by jerico65
IMHO, The problem w/ the Brits is they try and flood area's w/ personnel thinking that will suppress the problem w/ just their presence. I bet this commander is taking his experiences of Northern Ireland and thinking there is no way they can suppress the Taliban.


< sarcasm on> Exactly! Dropping bombs on them from high altitude or having CIA operated drones firing off missiles at everyone with a beard is surely the way to go. Ok, a lot of innocent people will get killed too but hey, you gotta break some eggs to make an omelette!

You can't really be serious? Flood Afghanistan with personnel? From where?
Northern Ireland is a relatively small area with some towns / villages surrounded by green fields and trees and some small hills. Afghanistan on the other hand......



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 06:56 AM
link   
I can not believe that war is the best solution. No one won the last war, and no one will win the next war.
—Eleanor Roosevelt

It is as true in morals as in physics that all force is imperishable; therefore the consequences of a human action never cease.
—Tennessee Claflin


The world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its labourers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children.
—Dwight D. Eisenhower



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 07:16 AM
link   

Originally posted by tezzajw
Seriously, what does it take to end this friggin useless war, especially when you have top people in the US and UK forces stating that it can't be won?


"Useless"? Please for a second consider the long term geo-political, military, humanitarian, economical etc... implications of this conflict. What the General is referring too, if I'm understanding correctly, is not that the war cant be "won". Rather that a complete and formal cease to hostilities (i.e. Japan in WWII) is not likely. We are not fighting a state force, but factions with a common goal. That goal is to create as much instability as possible to undermine the national Afghan government and derail all the positive strides they have made. By waging an unconventional war of attrition these thugs hope to force a NATO pullout. If such a thing happens before the ANA can manage their futile attempt at bringing back the Taliban days then the implication will be catastrophic. Even in Germany in WWII resistance continued for years after the formal end of the war. And that case involved civilized people, not foreign and local idiots from all over the world with a death wish and an outdated, yet vicious, vision of the world. Personally if we can strengthen the Afghan Army and their government to deal with these people on their own then that's a victory.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 07:20 AM
link   
I questioned this from before they went ahead and surged in, guns blazing, Texas Ranger style..

When you kill people, some members in their imediate surroundings will, themselves, become vulnerable to extremist indoctrination.

When you destroy a country's modern ammenitys, you force them to fall back on a tribal pattern, again, increasing the vulnerability to extremist indoctrination.

When you arrest and torture a family's breadwinner, innocent of everything except being Afghan/Iraqi or what have you, once more, you create a fertile ground for extremist indoctrination.

all they have been accomplishing is turning an entire region into a cesspool of anti-Western sentiments. 'Victory' in Afghanistan is now further away then it ever was.

btw, azureskys, Dwight D. Eisenhower forgot one currency it is spending in it's war.. the blood of it's innocents!

*edited for spelling*

[edit on 6-10-2008 by Phatcat]



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 07:22 AM
link   

Originally posted by t0ken
...Coming back to the topic
This is just typical British reaction when the pressure builds on them.We have seen how the British retreated when the Mahdi militias mortared the crap outa British forces in Basra and they finally came down to negotiations and chickened out.

The question that seems to come to my mind is that do the British retreat because they don't wana loose thousands of soldiers for the interests of US/Israel or are they really incapable of fighting tough enemies?


The thing is, the Brits were actually one of the few armies (the only??) to be able to defeat an organized guerrilla force. Also, and to other posters, the situation in Afghanistan bears no resemblance to what happened in Northern Ireland.

It was probably the first realist statement I ever saw from anyone involved on these enterprises.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 07:25 AM
link   
reply to post by Phatcat
 



You do remember that NATO just didn't go into A-stan because it was a slow week and the golf links were filled.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 08:15 AM
link   
Actually we've done incredible progress in building Afghan to standards and life style they have never seen before. Wars take time against Religious Fanatics
of Islamic bent it takes longer but in the end the last pages of their movement are now being written.

Many of the fanatics have been driven out of Iraq like frighten animals. They now trying to make their last stand if Afghanistan. Actually we wont their with
great precision and used the Northern ALLiance do most of the blasting using
our SF and Air-power and satellites we hunted them down from mountain to mountain.

The Rebels will fight for their rights to the end. Their right to beat and kill their woman as they see fit. Their right to Kill non Mohmadans in their quest for Global domination. The only way to win is to break their wills and America has plenty of Daisy Cutters to do the job. We should spry their mountains with the words Resistance is Futile.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 08:21 AM
link   

Originally posted by torresm1
Actually we've done incredible progress in building Afghan to standards and life style they have never seen before. ...


You do know that outside main cities there's still no semblance of law and order in the country?



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 08:28 AM
link   
when i read that first thing i thought was "has it been 9 years already"

we have 2 more years then we are out wether they think they have won or not, russia gave up on afganistan after 9 years, personaly i think they are just treading water till we get to 9 years and a few months, so we were in longer than the russians.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 08:29 AM
link   

Originally posted by jmlima
You do know that outside main cities there's still no semblance of law and order in the country?


Did you know that Afghanistan has some of the most inhospitable and undeveloped rural areas in the world? Not to mention the centuries old tribal traditions and the ever persistent (enter whatever name you wish) fighters. Oh, and need I remind you that anything resembling a central government was essentially nonexistent for decades in Afghanistan. The country and its people have been ravaged by conflict, poverty etc... for decades. And you expect what? Something resembling a Western nation to be built up in 7 years? Get real.



new topics




 
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join