Iraq War Vet Speaks out on 9/11 and orders given to kill civilians on sight

reply to post by MorningStar8741

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I think that's obvious: after the initial (luke)warm welcome (due to getting rid of Saddam) wore out and reality kicked in all Iraqis realized that nothing had improved in the grand scheme of things.

But now they felt their oppressor does not have similar control over the situation and that has encouraged them to take action unlike against Saddam.

No, I didn't give up. Arguing such things with people who are so easily duped by a charlatan and liar like Anderson and Macbeth and the others is just such a waste of life and time. You go ahead and keep believing whatever the latest pissed off angry soldier who wants to Stick it to the MAN! has to say. Knock yourself out, dudes.

Have you got any proof that Anderson is a liar and a charlatan, pinch or do you just enjoy slandering his character?

I'm looking forward to the proof that you're going to supply to back up your claim.

I have asked you about 4 times now to explain to me that those videos are lies then. I posted more than enough evidence of everything Anderson has said and you keep pretending that is not even there. Are you calling my videos a lie too? Seriously, you have not even tried to address them. You are just pretending that they do not exsist and that I never posted them. If Anderson is a liar, how do you explain the videos that I posted?

reply to post by MorningStar8741

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MorningStar8741, as I stand by, watching this thread run its course, its clear to me that a perspective unmoved is the position of both sides.

A person who is racist cannot be shown it is wrong.
A person who is not racist cannot be shown it is wrong.

Each in their own mind is right. But should Pinch be an Iraqi, perhaps his words would end. Should you be an American soldier, perhaps you would see that the video linked in this post may or may not be true.

As a former non combat serviceman myself, Andersons concerns and portrayals are real. From what I can see. A tactic not realized, but a tactic pondered. Either way, it appears he has identified is as a practice.
A real ethical concern for morality, and a real worry for potential Iraqi victims.

War is ugly. Rape, Oppression, death, and loss of life. Families destroyed, an innocent children become victims. The forcing of a political ideology that appears to be flawed in the recent United States crisis, and a moral way of life that many Muslims feel is deplorable.

The best we can do is see what is right, do what is right, and be the right we know to be. Life, liberty and the persuit of happiness is a truth we have identified, but what is right? Economies based on the oppression of mankind? Exploitative capitalism and excessive gains on the shoulders of another mans brother?

America has lessons to learn within her own borders, and it appears that, as Sharon Creech once said in her book Walk two Moons:



Pinch walk with Morning, and Morning with Pinch. Pinch and Morning in the mind of Anderson, and Anderson in the mind of the military complex and we the readers.

The Truth is we come in Peace. If it doesn't end in peace, love, equality and a justice fair for the deliverer as well as the receiver, then it isnt peace at all.

Peace will reign.


[edit on 14-10-2008 by HIFIGUY]

Peace through superior and more accurate firepower, perhaps.

We need to think carefully our actions before any undertaking as the equal and opposite reaction may be the result.

A superior and more accurate fire power has lead to an invisible telegraph and undertaking that caused the twin towers.

The difference is, that they do this unto their own people, as well as we the west. This action does not yield peace, either for the Muslim or the west.

Its one thing to change the world by force, its another to govern through oppression.

They are not without blood on their hands, nor are we. He who lives by the sword will die by the sword. The Truth will set both free.

Peace


[edit on 14-10-2008 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by HIFIGUY

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But I did not post anything that can be interpreted any other way. The only way to keep from changing your oppinion is to pretend that the evidence that is posted here does not exsist; which is exactly the tactic Pinch is trying.

Why are you even posting in this thread if you are going to just say such stupid things. You have called Anderson a liar over and over and have offered nothing in the way of proof.

I have directly addressed you about those videos and you continue to pretend that they are not even there and that noone ever mentioned them.

So why come back and call Anderson a liar again when everyone can see that you have nothing to base that on and you have surpassed willfull ignorance to plain stupid denial a long time ago.

Dont get me wrong. I believe Andersonn is sincere.
What I was attempting to do, was to get Pinch to understand your stance, and for you to understand his.

The response that was seen is this.



Thats the military industrial complex talking. Not dads, moms, and children. We are right, within our own country and set of beliefs.Not theirs.

Is peace behind machines guns and concrete barriers really peace?
At what point is that a temporary facade? Does the Iraqi mother go home and kill her children, or does she go home worried and scared that the one with the gun may come into her home at any moment be it American or other? Who is the enemy?

The morality of the videos shown originally indicate a practice that is ethically wrong and should they be true, we need to combat wrong.
Should they not be true, then let it be known. That being said, Anderson is in the company of many, who have shown their Military IDs and have testimony indicating that they are who they are.

I respect a soldier of ethics and morals more then one of might and brawn who acts blindly.

Peace


[edit on 14-10-2008 by HIFIGUY]

While I respect what you are trying to do, Pinch has made it quite clear that he is going to keep pretending that those videos are not even there. He will not acknowledge them. That is why he fled this thread to begin with. Why he came back boggles my mind. What is clear though, is that there is no rational discussion to be had with someone who cannot even acknowledge the evidence on the table enough to dismiss it, let alone look at it.

This is not a battle between yourself and Pinch, but a struggle between that which is right versus wrong.

We are Americans. We walk for a greater good, and while that good is not always clear, there are many that would seek to silence our very premise.

The undertaking of Iraq has found the lack of WMDs. The lack of nuclear weapons. The lack of chemical weapons. And the finding of American GIs being discriminatory and a host of other deplorable actions.

While some of those actions are abominable, I do not believe as a whole this is our military moral code. This is a select few, verses the very select of which compose the majority.

Peace

[edit on 14-10-2008 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by HIFIGUY

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Actually, it is a battle with Pinch. He called Anderson a liar and said these things never happen. I posted undeniable video proof and Pinch continues to call these lies without acknowledging the videos. That is what makes it a battle. If he is going to call BS, he needs to look at the evidence, and perhaps provide some of his own. What he is doing is slandering a good man for no reason with no proof. He is also denying the obvious. I never said this was the prevailing attitude. I said it was happening. Even once is enough. It makes our troops less safe and America less safe. If Pinch were half the soldier he claims to have been, he would hate these men as much as I do for what they are doing to his fellow soldiers.

Isn't the cell phone a remarkable little device. had we had one during the Vietnam war, just think of the things we could have uncovered and recorded.

as for anderson's video is concerned I do believe it along with the other video's, thing's of this magnitude should not go unchecked. The world will judge us as a whole nation.

reply to post by tiso_us

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Good point. I sure as hell do not want any misdirected animosity toward me by the victims of people like this because they do what they do with an american flag on their uniform.

MorningStar, there is nothing in any of those videos that backs up any of the above claims made by Anderson.

You do not see innocent people being shot at? You do not see an explosive device launched at a farmer walking with his herd? I am sorry, what did you see in those videos exactly?

You don't see Iraqi children being ABUSED by asking them if they f*** donkey?

You don't see Iraqi children being ABUSED by taunting them to chase a bottle of water?

[edit on 15-10-2008 by tezzajw]

reply to post by tezzajw

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I think Mornings emphasis was on the overall issue of abuses that are going on in Iraq. The Anderson video was on questionable military practices and the later videos on the post were in regards to yet even more deplorable behavior.

In a war where we are under a magnifying glass, we need to do it better then everyone else.

Those acts are of poor taste, and are a symptom of a much larger problem facing the America of today, and an infection, that many Muslims are seeking to avoid.

Peace

[edit on 15-10-2008 by HIFIGUY]