There is hope...a solution to end suffering in our time

reply to post by mike dangerously


Exactly. "Its Anti-religious, blasphemous, communist propaganda!" they'll say.

If people are going to dismiss it in virtue of its religious critiques or break downs, then they should just skip over those parts. Of course the 9-11 part would probably get people to stop as well. Cannot win all the time.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by Unlimitedpossibilities]

Im bumping this old thread of mine.

I just got back from seeing the movie "The Day the Earth stood Still" and it got me reflecting again on this topic.

At one point in the movie, the alien needs food so he approaches a vending machine. He gazes at the input device where money goes in but of course he doesnt have any. He merely touches the vending machine and it gives up the food.

I found that point to be quite clear and profound.

And I stand by my belief, money would be an "alien" concept to any civilization capable of intersteller space travel. They would have no word for it.

Originally posted by admriker444
I've said it before and I'll say it again, money has got to go. Its the power of money and its scarcity principles that enable suffering on a world-wide scale.

Unfortunately our society today can not fathom a world without money. There are numerous reasons...

an education system corrupted by the elite's monetary system - They teach my son about how to be a good worker, how to be more productive, how to get and maintain a good credit score....what they dont teach him is how to be a thinker. As Rockefeller said after he founded the General Education Board "i want a nation of workers, not a nation of thinkers"
The education system simply exists to continue the system of a slave work force.

lower intelligence due to toxic wastes such as flouride, pestisides, and genetically modified foods with purposely designed lower nutrition levels.

Scarcity - We begin our existence only knowing scarcity. Shortages of food, water, clothing, etc forced humanity to covet hoarding. This led to today's system of profit. We know nothing else and the powers at the top of the pyramid dont wish us to know. It would end their power. However with today's technology there is no need to force scarity on us. Its artificial.

The solution is obvious, abundance of resources. We have plenty to go around. We could give every human being on this planet an acre of land and it wouldnt fill up the country of Australia. We've been lied too, there is plenty to go around.

Abundance would mean the end of money. This in turn would lead to the end of power, slavery, and control by the global elite. It would end wars and poverty. It would make crime signifigantly decline as there's no need to steal and rob to survive anymore. Drugs would practically disappear as there's no more profit in it and the users will have no need to escape their pain.

So how do we achieve this abundance....through technology. Technology can free us from mundane tasks. It can give us more leisure time. It can end hunger. It can end inefficiency and waste. We have the knowledge today to end dependance on fossil fuels and the solution is abundant in nature.

I urge you all to visit The Venus Project to see how we can achieve a totally new way to live.

www.thevenusproject.com...

They go into some detail on how this utopia can happen if we only allow it.

Taken from their website here www.thevenusproject.com...

"Money is only important in a society when certain resources for survival must be rationed and the people accept money as an exchange medium for the scarce resources. Money is a social convention, an agreement if you will. It is neither a natural resource nor does it represent one. It is not necessary for survival unless we have been conditioned to accept it as such."

If you havent seem it, the zeitgeist folks have made a new movie that references The Venus Project numerous times. It goes into great detail about the monetary system being inherently corrupt and unsustainable.

video.google.com...

If you wont watch the whole video, at least tune into the 1 hr and 7 minute mark area. It talks about scarcity and how it controls us.

There is hope folks but time is running out. We must realize that no elected official is going to save us. There is no law thats going to make us safe and well fed. We need a total change and getting rid of money is the means.

You are on the right lines apart from the venus project as its a money making scam.

Have a read here for the real answer

www.abovetopsecret.com...

i decided to post this on a site for a MMORPG called Star Trek Online. I was pleasantly surprised by so many positive posts in support.

Kinda ironic that sci-fi fans of a video game are more open to a world without money over a conspiracy site

forums.startrekonline.com...

reply to post by admriker444
Wow,admriker444! they are more opened to listen to the ideas of the Venus Project and Zeitgeist I would have thought there would be a more knee jerk reaction to it then there was.

reply to post by mike dangerously


Yes see. The elites just want us to think we are too radical of thinkers. Any segregation is beneficial to them. We must give other "sleepers", the outsiders, more credit. One of human being fallacies, that we are all subject to at any time.

[edit on 10-1-2009 by Unlimitedpossibilities]

Originally posted by mike dangerously
reply to post by admriker444

 

Wow,admriker444! they are more opened to listen to the ideas of the Venus Project and Zeitgeist I would have thought there would be a more knee jerk reaction to it then there was.

Yeah it was a nice surprise to see folks on a non-conspiracy site not flame me to hell.

Gene Roddenberry's vision didnt include money so it was an easier pill for them to swallow

Originally posted by LowLevelMason

There is no proof or evidence that "greed" is holding back advances in technology. In fact, the proof is just the opposite: greed drives advances in technology. If there was a shadowy cabal of bankers attempting to keep us from advancing for profit, please tell me why we have computers, the internet, cell phones, or any of the other technological advances of the past 40 years?

You mean cell phones that we have to replace every couple of years because they've made a few slight changes to the latest version or the current one has crapped out because of shoddy workmanship?
I don't disagree that their has been advances but only advances that can be tied with profit. Anything that could be had that would provide an abundance would destroy the market value, hence the profit. No one is interested in technology you can't make any money off of.

The auto industry is a excellent example of why greed is good. I don't want any company pushing some electric car on me that I don't want. I'm not going to buy into environmental fascism to have people force me into what type of vehicle I choose to drive. I love my gas driving SUV and when it dies, I'll buy another one. If you want to drive a matchbox on wheels that's your choice and you can do so - don't force me to do it.

That is amusing that you don't want any company "pushing" an electric car on you. You don't think you are getting gas powered cars "pushed" on you? You assume you have a choice, but in reality you are sold what companies want you to have. The choice is an illusion.

The truth of the matter is Z:A is propaganda. There is no free energy solution, and if there was oil companies would jump at it - all of the methods Z:A talks about can still be owned and sold to consumers. Unfortunately none of them are viable alternatives: wind energy is a LULU item, solar panels are not efficient enough compared to traditional electric power, tidal current power is in its infancy, and geothermal is extraordinarily expensive to operate.

I agree it is propaganda, Peter Joseph would agree with you too. Anything that tries to convince you or sell an opinion is propaganda. About free energy, why would oil companies jump on geothermal energy that would make energy so abundant that it would be ridiculous to charge for it? Do you understand the concept of ROI? Unless they consciously restricted the energy, it would take forever to make a profit from geothermal or solar. None of those excuses you've given couldn't be conquered with some solid investment in R&D, what is preventing that is profit from oil revenues is easy and it is easy to restrict to drive the value up even higher. Scarcity and inefficiency equals profit. Abundance and efficiency equals shelved tech.

Greed is good. Its what drives innovation, and it is what has brought us all of our technological innovations today. There is a reason why you can't name one technological innovation that was created without someone making a profit of it: without that greedy urge to make a profit, no one would bother.

I can name one off the top of my head, Jonas Salk's polio vaccine. And most inventors don't invent because of the profit motive, they invent because there is a problem that they can solve. Money comes after.

The whole "you vs the elite" is a illusion drawn to make your life easier. People want to believe in some evil elite group hell bent to control their lives because it makes it easy to explain their life circumstances and blame someone else when life doesn't go as they like it. Its fear mongering, and its not based in reality.

I let the monetary system stand as it's own argument for the corruption of the system as a whole.

reply to post by badmedia


I have to say, I'm shocked that I agree with you considering how much you were against Z:A on that other thread. But then again we both agree that the current system is corrupt, and it isn't just the government, it is the Federal Reserve and the bankers as well. We just disagree on what to replace them with.

Originally posted by LowLevelMason

Originally posted by admriker444
The only people who will really freak out are those who stand to lose a lot of power and control.

for everyone else in a money-free society we stand to gain a lot.

Populist propaganda. You stand to lose all your technology and innovations. But you'll be happy, because you got to stick it to the rich!!

Maybe you would like to qualify that statement? Why on earth would we lose all our technology and innovation? I would think that freed of the constraints of having to go to a job that we hated everyday and spend more time enriching our minds we could become more innovative and creative than before not less.

Consider this, we have the capacity to feed everyone in this world, but yet we do not because we don't have the money. Why is that?

Originally posted by LowLevelMason

Originally posted by caballero
The fact is LowlevelMason that the way the world is run is outdated.

Outdated? Well, its the best thing tried so far. Could be a better system, but I have not yet seen one.

Originally posted by caballero
Before in human history it was necessary to have money to expand. The only things that could collect resources and expand society were the worker classes, but now we have machines.

Its still necessary because we need someone to create, maintain, and upgrade those machines. Work still exists which is necessary to survive, its just that the type of work has shifted from a industrial society to a knowledge society.

Work keeps getting more efficient and effective because efficient and effective work drives profit. Remove the profit, remove the incentive to bother.

There is nothing wrong with people having more than other people. Being rich is not wrong. Remove the incentive to be successful and you will have anything but peace and abundance.

See I take issue with the whole "without money to motivate greed, there just ain't no incentive to do nothing, no how." I am paraphrasing. I like to eat, I like to have a roof over my head, I like to have clothes to protect me from the elements. If money disappeared tomorrow, I would still want these things...in fact I would still need these things. I would contribute however I could to society so I could get these things. Currently I do so today by selling my labour for fiat currency. In a resource economy I would better myself and contribute in other ways, because I'm a pretty smart guy and quite frankly would love my low stress life and would gladly donate my time and labour furthering society for everyone.

As for nothing wrong with being rich. Those who have millions or billions of dollars are essentially telling other people that they can starve because they can't work hard and have merit.

reply to post by LowLevelMason


"Wrong again! If he didn't get any income from it and knew he would never be rewarded for his success, he would never have invented anything."

This is kind of a straw man argument. By saying that because someone received money or reward for an innovation that becomes the reason for the innovation. It is impossible to say that money was the motivation without asking they guy if that is why he did it. The guy who discovered insulin, he won the Nobel Prize, is that why he worked so hard to discover a treatment for diabetes? Or did he do it because without insulin diabetes was a death sentence to every child who had it. You seem to think that with no money motive that everyone would sit around and let these children die. I hold the human race in a bit higher esteem.

In a society that is driven by money, money is in everything. So invent something, discover something, money is inevitable. Unless your like that Russian math dude that told them they could take their Nobel prize and shove it.

Originally posted by seize
It is Greed that is the root of all evil. Not money. It is greed that will never go away. It is innate in human nature to be greedy. Greed is what drives us to work and 'move up' in the ranks. It's to make more money and 'better our lives.' I'm not saying we don't stare at propaganda all day long, because we do. I also believe money is an easy way of obtaining a view of wealthy. The easier it is to be wealthy to less productive things we do. This is why the 'elites' push so hard for money to retain its value. For easy wealth. It's a lot easier to have a piece of plastic and a bank statement along with any recreational possessions to prove my overall wealth versus a mansion, several million gold coins, an abundance of cattle, food, clean water... etc. So there is reason why people in power remain in power. Because they own and control the flow of money. I see both sides in their own respects. "Bartering" can never not occur. Therefore exchange always exists. Money is so widely accepted because of its portability. It's a lot easier to 'lose' its value; however, when it is so widely spread to only so few. People eventually will abandon money if this continues to go on and go back to the old days of bartering. Money thrives on that greed, corrupting more people than simple bartering would. Not to say crime wouldn't exist. But certainly the people would 'take care of the problem' if need be. I don't have the answer but I certainly don't mind sharing my opinion. I hope to hear others as well.

What is human nature? I don't think any behaviour is truly innate. Without any stimuli none of us would develop language. Environment makes us greedy. Scarcity makes us greedy. Inequality makes us greedy.

reply to post by seize


Money was developed as an efficient means to allocate resource scarcity. This no longer applies today. Case in point the average farm back in the day would support 6 to 8 people. The average farm today, same area mind you, would support about 200. We have the ability to generate abundance. We just don't because of money.

Think of money like apron strings. Time to cut those apron strings.

Originally posted by Syndular

Originally posted by admriker444




...... We have plenty to go around. We could give every human being on this planet an acre of land and it wouldnt fill up the country of Australia. We've been lied too, there is plenty to go around.....

As of October 2008, the world's population is estimated to be about 6.7 billion (6,700,000,000).

From : en.wikipedia.org...

and then this ....

The land mass is- 7,686,850[sq. km]

From : wiki.answers.com...



Now I think much of what you said is true but one problem that would need to be solved is earths population. I don't mean kill people but something has to be done to reduce it. Maybe in the form of better birth control or limits on how many kids a family could have. I DON'T have THE answer but am just throing things out there that are better then killing people off.

Sure would have enough land to hold oll our current population, just not in one little country though. However what you have to think about isn't just the land for the pop. but the other things that come with that... rescources, waste,etc. Right now with our current pop. and it is always on the rise... just waste alone is a BIG issue. So having a better controlled pop. would in some ways help reduce the waste issue alone with the other ones as well.

Anyways just my thoughts on that.

Why reduce it? I mean we have oceans to live on, and under. We have space. But I see what you are getting at, but I think allowing everyone access to education, food and shelter will serve to reduce the birthrate all by itself. The same effect you see in first world countries contrasted against third world countries.