Gays, medically born Gay? Gays superior to Strieghts?, page 4

reply to post by Ghost147

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We have COMPLETELY mapped the human genome, there is NO gay gene.


Meaning = Not "born that way'.

reply to post by Ghost147

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I would have to disagree due to the studies quoted earlier concerning brain development. Those studies showed a simularity to straight women thus the emotionality of gay men. I, on the other hand, am not very emotional at all. If my brain were to be studied, I think they would find that my brain would resemble that of a straight man. In fact, almost everyone is surprised to find out that I'm gay when I tell them. I haven't cried since I was a child, choked up once in a while, but unable to cry, and I'm pushing 50.

I think in order to put this to rest, then they need to do a simular study with a 'butch' vs. 'fem' analysis in both gay men and lesbians. Now if someone can show me no difference in brain structure in a study like that, then I will concede my original point.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

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Im not accusing there to be a "gay gene". However, that doesnt rule out being born gay, as we've already found the research towards that fact.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

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You have source material to back that up? I find it hard to believe they completely understand the entire DNA structure and the effects each base pair.

Originally posted by Ghost147
reply to post by NOTurTypical

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Im not accusing there to be a "gay gene". However, that doesnt rule out being born gay, as we've already found the research towards that fact.

It's NOT a "fact", it's theory until a GENE is found.

There isn't one, the entire human genome has been mapped.

In order to be born this or that, there needs to be a GENE.

Does this make sense to you?

reply to post by JaxonRoberts

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The Human Genome Project (HGP) was an international scientific research project with a primary goal to determine the sequence of chemical base pairs which make up DNA and to identify the approximately 25,000 genes of the human genome from both a physical and functional standpoint.

The project began in 1990 initially headed by James D. Watson at the U.S. National Institutes of Health. A working draft of the genome was released in 2000 and a complete one in 2003, with further analysis still being published. A parallel project was conducted by the private company Celera Genomics. Most of the sequencing was performed in universities and research centers from the United States, Canada and Britain. The mapping of human genes is an important step in the development of medicines and other aspects of health care.

Human Genome Project

Humans turn to the same sex when there isn't a positive, loving parent in that person's life in the very early years. It's a psychological reaction to that.

People think they are "born that way" because by the time they begin to look at others in a sexual manner, the psychological affect has been done.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

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Then you completely missed all the studies on the brain structure and massive biological difference that have been carried out for decades and are still releasing the same definitive and undeniable evidence. I know I didn't.

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
reply to post by NOTurTypical

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You have source material to back that up? I find it hard to believe they completely understand the entire DNA structure and the effects each base pair.

Here too:

The US president and the UK prime minister have hailed the rough draft of the entire human genetic code as "the most wondrous map ever produced by human kind".

news.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by mystiq
reply to post by NOTurTypical

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Then you completely missed all the studies on the brain structure and massive biological difference that have been carried out for decades and are still releasing the same definitive and undeniable evidence. I know I didn't.

I didn't miss anything. Anyone with a high school education knows that there must be a gene for a trait to be acquired from birth, or passed by DNA.

There is no "gay gene". The entire human genome has been mapped.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

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They have hardly mapped all the genes, especially all the junk dna, which is like a computer language with the "junk" appearing to be the differing clauses that pertain to a variety of circumstances. But they have looked intensively at the brains, which seem to form via hormone baths in the womb. There also seems to be a tendency for sexual orientation to run in families, as I noticed from friends, and acquaintances. That certainly implies a genetic connection, rather than a mistake happening with the hormones. I really appreciate a world with all the different configurations in people. Think how boring, rigid and repressive it would be otherwise.

Originally posted by mystiq
reply to post by NOTurTypical

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They have hardly mapped all the genes, especially all the junk dna, which is like a computer language with the "junk" appearing to be the differing clauses that pertain to a variety of circumstances.

I'm supposed to believe YOU, when the scientists completing the Human Genome Project state otherwise????

Absurd.

This is a very interesting article that pertains to the genetic link, with a very strong indication of the role genes play, bringing the normal 4% to 50 % with identical twins. But there are obviously other factors. Though this still doesn't lead one to assume aha, its environment, because I don't see environment making brains so noticeably different, but hormone development does that in the womb. Also, one youth I met was bisexual, and he had been sexually abused as a child by his uncle, who was gay. Though confused, he still liked women. I never knew if he was bisexual naturally through a different variation of the genetic material, or if his was completely because of the abuse. He had so many issues to work through and I felt sorry for him.
Though other factors are also involved, they could be as simple as additives in food that make a hormone misfire, or stress during pregnancy or numerous other causes. Because the brain change is still evident. But the results showed a large genetic connection.

news-service.stanford.edu...

# Several studies also have shown that homosexuality tends to run in families. The probability that the brother of a gay man is gay is about four times higher than normal. Similarly, the odds that the sister of a lesbian is also a lesbian is significantly higher than normal. However, male homosexuality and lesbianism tend to run in different families: sisters with gay brothers are not more likely than normal to be lesbian. A 1993 study that traced the pedigree of pairs of gay brothers found that homosexuality tends to run on the maternal side of the family tree: the brothers had a higher than average number of maternal nephews and uncles who are gay.
# Identical twin studies shed additional light on the genetic underpinnings of sexual preference. If there are differences in preference between identical twins, who share the same genes, then that difference cannot be genetic. Here, the research indicates that in cases where one identical male twin is gay, about half the time the other twin is gay as well. "This is way above 4 percent, so it's got to be genetic, but it is nowhere near 100 percent," Goldstein said. The percentages for lesbian twins are slightly lower, but generally comparable.
# DNA studies have identified the general location of at least one "gay gene." The maternal heritability of male homosexuality narrowed the region where such a gene must reside to the X chromosome, because sons get this chromosome from their mother. Analysis of DNA markers on the X chromosomes of sibling pairs has further narrowed the search to a region called XQ28. It consists of hundreds of genes and is located near the tip of the X chromosome. However, there is some indication that genes located elsewhere may have a similar effect on sexual orientation, Goldstein said.
# Fetal development studies suggest how such a gene might influence such a complex behavior. The development of a fetus into a male is accomplished by the development of the testes, which produce testosterone, which has a wide range of physiological effects. During the perinatal period, a week before and after birth, testosterone has an irreversible organizing effect on the body and brain of males. If the hormone is absent during this period, the individual's anatomy and behavior never can become wholly male. A testosterone surge during puberty activates male sexual development and behavior.
# Differences between gay and straight sexual orientation appear at a very early age.

[edit on 6-10-2008 by mystiq]

reply to post by NOTurTypical

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If there are differences in brain structure, then couldn't it be linked to the genes that are responsible for brain development? Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe in 'nurture', but also see a basis for 'nature' as well.

And I just googled Human Genome Project and Homosexuality and got this as the first hit:

www.haworthpress.com...

Abstract:
Recent scientific research which offers evidence of genetic and biologic influence in homosexuality has created serious concerns. ...

In conclusion, homosexuality should be understood from the perspective of autonomy as every person's right to experience a full and meaningful life.

I was confused when he brought up a genetic study that contradicted all the other studies, which I have followed throughout the years. But instead, he has misinterpreted the studies findings.

Edit to add:
But... then I find further articles that this one man is coming forth with his conclusion that while there is a genetic component it is small enough to not be the cause but rather something goes off that makes changes in womb. Considering that other studies finds 50%, and considering the physical manifestation of different brain structures, I don't think this guy has mapped the genes quite as well as he thinks, and it flies in the face of massive other studies.

[edit on 6-10-2008 by mystiq]

reply to post by NOTurTypical

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Humans turn to the same sex when there isn't a positive, loving parent in that person's life in the very early years. It's a psychological reaction to that.


I'd like to see what research has brought you to this conclusion? I have only met a few gay people in my life that fit this stereotype. My best gay friend has very loving parents who he told he was gay to in third grade, and they've been supportive since. I wonder if people who believe in this stereotype have met many gay people. I'm certain they'll find no valid research concluding all gay people fit this stereotype. It is a huge “gay myth”.

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage

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Yeah, have to agree with you there! I was the center of my mother's life, and she never showed me anything but love. *BUZZZZZ* Try again!!!

Originally posted by mystiq
reply to post by Mercuryae

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Theres so many natural variations, that it really doesn't matter. I find people who are much more relaxed about these things naturally more intelligent and inquisitive. One friend who I actual began by dating would never get close physically, but I found out afterwards that he had been considering marrying me. In the end when I was dating my ex husband to be, he
told me that he never knew if he was gay or not. He was one of many children in a family, and his father and grandfather were ministers. But he said he preferred looking at womens legs to men so he didn't think so.
And then there are bisexuals as well. Thats a whole different story. Whereas my lesbian friend was chivalrous and had honor and was a very decent "guy" with every vibe she gave out, and a great and sought after bass player, I ran from the bisexual woman who was looking at my loom and talking about us weaving somehow. Lol. I started to explain about the spinning I loved to do, and the different color combinations, and she interrupted and said this could go anyway I wanted. I said, "I'm straight, I'm straight. I have no choice that way." But she didn't stop pursuing me. Though this again is not all bisexuals, but it became my opinion for a while that they may be over-sexed as a group.
No, I don't want to get into any arguments over that, because bi-sexuals are probably far better at explaining things than I am. Of course meeting a male bi-sexual, who truly liked women as well, was no big deal. I would have dated him if I had been single at the time, because we liked each other. Perhaps I find that to be the bigger mystery.

Hmm...I thought and hoped I was bisexual but Im not ..thats not because I fear a reaction from the people outside ( really, that doesnt bother me since my genderexpression is so much more of an issue to people)

I probably am bi-romantic, I can find certain very charming and spiritual progressive men extremely "arousing"to spend time with and have the desire to kiss them...it just doesnt turn me on

And I also feel that bi-sexuals tend to be a little more on the sexual side....maybe its just the increase of possible sex thats around when you are Bi...I mean getting possibly aroused by men and women is a mean feat to withstand in a crowded area with lots of people

So how are you at this time period...I read you had kids? Hs it changed yiou

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