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Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
reply to post by Dave Rabbit
I know you didn't include the Helix Nebula and I'm not sure if this is relevant, but I just always found it interesting.
I've been to Yellowstone and seen "The Morning Glory" pool when I was a kid on family vacation. Later on in life after seeing a picture of the Helix Nebula, as seen by the Hubble Telescope, I could never figure out why it looked so familiar to me, then one day it hit me..."The Morning Glory" pool.
I put these pictures side by side. I've overlaid them also, but the perspectives are to far off to judge properly although when I have overlaid them, many aspects are the same. I believe them to be the same thing, but without having a direct overhead of the pool it is too difficult to judge. See what you guys think.
I've seen a few UFO's right over downtown San Diego that I honestly can't explain away to be "ours" though SD is a huge military contractor. What I saw were "burnt orange" orbs hovering directly over downtown in broad daylight. If our universe is what we are told then I don't see how others could not be out there. Enjoy
Size of Milky Way
The stellar disk of the Milky Way galaxy is approximately 100,000 light-years (9.5×1017 km) in diameter, and is believed to be, on average, about 1,000 ly (9.5×1015 km) thick. It is estimated to contain at least 200 billion stars and possibly up to 400 billion stars, the exact figure depending on the number of very low-mass stars, which is highly uncertain. Extending beyond the stellar disk is a much thicker disk of gas. Recent observations indicate that the gaseous disk of the Milky Way has a thickness of around 12,000 ly (1.1×1017 km)—twice the previously accepted value. As a guide to the relative physical scale of the Milky Way, if it were reduced to 130 km in diameter, the Solar System would be a mere 2 mm in width.
But, I am not one of those people who, a few hundred years ago, would have believed that the earth was at the center of the universe either.
Several specialists now claim they have found the long-sought "final evidence" of visits made to earth by ancient astronauts. The myths of the Dogon tribesmen of Mall, West Africa, contain astronomical knowledge which the native people could have neither learned by themselves nor guessed. Obviously, the researchers say, some more advanced civilization told them. These fascinating Dogon legends speak of Jupiter's four moons and Saturn's rings, which were not seen by human beings until the invention of the telescope. They speak of the star Sirius and of a pair of invisible companions. One of them circles Sirius every fifty years, the legends declare, and is made of a metal that is the heaviest thing in the universe. Astronomers have discovered that such an object (called "Sirius-B") does exist but only the most sophisticated and sensitive instruments -- unavailable, of course, to the Dogons -- can detect it." from The Sirius Mystery, by James Oberg
Originally posted by ZeroGhost
Then there is the question of what IS intelligence.
Of course we think WE are intelligent. But what of a civilization ten thousand or a million years older who stopped killing and abusing themselves so long ago that we are insignificant in comparison?
Imagine we are listening to an early simian version of the first bipedal ape-like pre-humanoid, thinking maybe they are the bar for intelligence. What would you think was true?
I believe we are pre-intelligent. When we are not threatening our own survival, defecating in our own bathwater, using each other and climbing on piles of dead bodies to get up to some illusion of power, blind to the complete transcendent beauty of the Earth, that we are just seeing what we can extract from her for profit, comfort and power, when we are beyond such behavior and sheer ignorance, only then I would consider such a label such as intelligence possible.
You must imagine that to be truly intelligent you would need to survive ignorance first.
Not there yet, but there is a chance. Our age of evolution might be the time to make the effort. If time is left.
Recognizing the gift and grace our lives are, and honoring that in all others would be a good start.
We might not get out of the nest until we make that happen.
Originally posted by ManInAsia
reply to post by SuperSecretSquirrel
This is not a debate but I will be brief. The current situation for humans (homo sapiens) is unusual. For almost the entirety of human history we have shared the world with other homo species (homo neanderthelasis, homo erectus, Homo floresiensis -flores man). Neanderthals existed until about 24,000 years ago and have been proven to co-habit territories where humans were present in the same time period. Neanderthals probably had language ability (they had the Fox2 gene and voice box) and they also made advanced stone tools equivalent to ancient humans in complexity and had the ability to light fires. Flores man was almost certainly a distinct human species (notable for its small size) which existed in Indonesia until 13000 years ago or so.
This situation where man does not see any animals that are closely related has led to a strong anthromorphic character to our reasoning, because we don't have very similar species to us extant that can talk and make fire (the really major differences to the other apes IMO) we assume we are special.
[edit on 7-10-2008 by ManInAsia]