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So... Who's Going to Join the Zeitgeist Movement??

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posted on Nov, 11 2008 @ 07:57 AM
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What a scam this movement is, it is never ever going to happen. Its all in your mind. Do something great today, help someone who needs your help. Stop looking for a pie in the sky idea, that has been around for along time and think for yourself, instead of directives from a bunch of people who you will eventually disagree with.




posted on Nov, 11 2008 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by RobertPaulsim
 


That makes sense and I do appreciate you replying to me.
Problem is, that is such a HUGE job.
You'd literally have to rebuild every single house on the planet and every single house would have to look exactly the same.
That's what my point is. If this utopia were to be created, there would be no difference between the houses people live in because if you had differences then some people would still get the short end of the stick.
You would have to tear down a lot of culturally relevant houses because although they are beautiful houses, there will be no one to decide who 'deserves' to live in a culturally beautiful house and no one to decide who lives in a 'normal, utopian house'
It would be the hardest thing in the world to literally tear down and rebuild every city, and I personally don't want to live in a world where everyone's houses are exactly the same.
And I don't want to live in a world were to be fair with people, you tear down old culture and rebuild it so that everyone is living in a house that looks exactly the same as the rest.
Do you see my point that in order for the Venus Project to happen, everyone is going to have to live in houses that look exactly the same and are the same size?
And then we get to the concert ticket - who decides who gets to be front row? Better yet, who decides who gets to be back stage? In this new world, with no laws, what do you think will happen to famous people? Do you think there will even BE famous people? I would assume there would be but they would be pretty screwed without security guards if all of a sudden one crackpot decides "Hey, I want to go backstage and meet So-and-So, the upcoming wonder" or whatever.
(and they wouldn't have security guards because... there are no jobs! haha.)

Oh and as for the jobs thing:
Jobs can't all be done by technology.
Cheap labor can be done by technology but there has to be someone managing the technology.
In all those factories of cheap labor, who is overseeing everything to make sure there are no problems? I would assume it would have to be a human.
And then we get to people who build instruments.
I know there aren't that many of those but I was thinking, the best guitars out there are hand made by humans and the cheap ones are the ones that are just assembled on assembly lines.
So I was thinking, I really wouldn't want to live in a world with no jobs because then, all the best guitars wouldn't have that human quality in them that makes them have such a beautiful sound.
And then we get to teachers.
Hah!
I am not going to send my kids to a school where they are being taught by robots.
School will NOT be taught by robots.

In the Venus Project system, there really is no government, so who oversees road construction?
Who oversees the garbage system, the education system, the transportation system?
People don't realize it but government is prominent every single day in every single thing we do.
In a world with no laws and no politics, who gets to decide "I think we should build a new road over by the library"
It doesn't make any sense. It wouldn't work. People can't just live without government.
Obviously, or else we would already have a society that lived like this utopia.
There always HAS to be some structure to a society or else it will fall apart.
If there are no laws, who is the person who is going to apprehend the angry drunk who is hitting his wife?
What wins out - the morals or the alcohol?
Is there just not going to be any alcohol in this utopian world? Of course there is. Nothing is illegal, so they can't take anything away from you.
What if you wanted to go and get a machine gun?? Shoot up everyone you know because you have problems but, since there are no jobs, you don't have a counselor to go to?
The Venus Project does not make sense.



posted on Nov, 12 2008 @ 03:57 AM
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posted on Nov, 12 2008 @ 04:20 AM
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reply to post by Shocka
 


Okay, hold it why are we doing half the things on this list? I must have missed that movie.



posted on Nov, 13 2008 @ 09:28 AM
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Zeitgeist baby! I'm in! I think it will be a good thing to have Zeitgeist t-shirt or any clothes with the Zeitgeist movement website written on them. So we can send a message and saw other members of the movement. Just an idea...



posted on Nov, 13 2008 @ 11:09 AM
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reply to post by difsjf
 


Thanks for posting.

I see your points. Its very complicated and we (with the
society we have today) CANT predict what WILL work.

You can solve a problem with the same level of understanding
we created.

So we need to learn, study and try out.

You are a very down-to-earth like me, you need to know the steps and
everyday thingies we deal with.

I think you´re at least interested in the concept or feels robbed just like I do.

I stated earlier that when a group of people try a test city (god bless you
heros) eventually things bought on the tech of monetary system will
start to degrade and need replacement.

This is when the experience gets reall hard.

How can you advocate tech society without resources?

So, to me, this VP needs a LOT of pre-conditions to be self-sustainable,
but this does NOT invalidate the idea.

Who 'controls' this society?

My guess are: independent science groups show projects and based on
peer review and test data, gets approval to get the resources and build what is needed.

No democracy. Democracy never worked, and its only function is to perpetuate lies and promisses never fullfilled.
We should learn by this now.

If we need energy to power 200 houses and the area we are talking about is perfect for wind energy, so this will be reflected on the project forecast data and we will act accordingly.

I see this working beautyfully with no biased parties.

You agree?

[]´s

Robert



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 04:05 AM
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The movement that zeitgeist presents is the only chance we have to survive as humans and not as robots of the SYSTEM!!!
Look around you people SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG!!
Everyone thought I was crazy when a year ago said that this system is going to collapse!!*THEY* are trying to do something all these years and now is the time!!!The economical panic is just to make us except more easily what *THEY* whant to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And from the first zeitgeist we all know what *THEY* want to do!!YES PEOPLE THE MICROCHIPS!!!!!!!!!!!
In 6 months time top,when the system crashes totaly the only solution to save ourselves *THEY* will say is to make a total new economical system based on what???YES THE MICROCHIPS!!!Every nation is going to cry for financial support where?????To the world bank !!!!
I come from Greece and not much to do from here for now.The base of the problem is all the american citizens that feed the system!!!We have to spread the word in the US first and then to the hole world!!HIT THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE SYSTEM!!
SPREAD THE WORD! NOT MUCH TIME LEFT !
EVERYONE MUST KNOW



posted on Nov, 16 2008 @ 01:39 PM
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Whatever..

The Zeitgeist Movement is total bull..
If something like that would ever emerge someday it wont be on the internet first but rather in local communities.

The Venus Project are what you could call "Useful Idiots", they will be infiltrated by the NWO very fast if they havent been already.



posted on Nov, 16 2008 @ 02:02 PM
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i am , im portuguese and im doing campain im portugal because the all point of the movie is for a better future it can be 50years but wy work for the next generation be more free from det slavery.
the zeitgeist movement portugal.



posted on Nov, 16 2008 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by RobertPaulsim
 


Of course we need sustainable energy. I am all for that, and a lot of things that were said in Zeitgeist I agreed with.

But the Venus Project is advocating for a world in which there are no laws.
What about the laws against rape and child molestation?
I would think that humanity itself would need to be revamped entirely to eliminate the cruelty that humans seem to innately possess.
But again, who knows if cruelty is a human trait... it could be a societal trait... but who really knows?
I see this world not working out though, because there are jobs that HAVE to be done by humans but that a human who is not gaining anything by doing these jobs might not ever do.
There has to be someone managing the robots doing the hard labor.
There has to be someone who decides when the road needs to be fixed on Section Street, and there has to be someone who takes the lead into organizing the robots to go and fix that road.
There has to be someone who designs the cities.
There has to be someone who does all of these things and without getting paid to do these things, why would anyone step up to the job?
Morals?
Perhaps humans really are moral creatures at birth and society shapes them to be evil.
But we have to remember that humans originally were the ones who shaped SOCIETY.
And I think that if this utopian society were possible, then wouldn't humans have started out doing this?
Or maybe we have grown up, and our bad morals came from our primitive ancestors??

I am not COMPLETELY invalidating the idea.
I am just saying, that, with my observations of the way humans act now and the way they always have seemed to act, the society would crumble.
There are too many people who only want stuff for themselves, who only want to be in power, and who don't care about anyone else prospering.
One could argue that society causes us to be that way...
but a), we don't know if that's true
and b), humans are the people who created society in the first place.
It just seems incredibly unlikely.

And back to my concert metaphor.
If there is no money to buy tickets to a concert, who decides who gets to sit front row and who has to sit balcony?
Is it a first come first serve basis?
Because then, the people who are faster and stronger start becoming the ones who get the front row tickets.
The people who are faster and stronger are the ones who get further in life because they have the capabilities to move quicker and get farther in a set amount of time, while the weaker ones get left behind.
Who knows if morals would really kick in, but is it even feasible that humans would somehow be moral and give the weaker ones the front row seats?
No.
Humans have a survival instinct, and that instinct causes humans to be selfish during times like this.

Anyways, who knows.
When you really think about, and go over it a few times in your head, you realize that the VP is only possible if humans are born inherently good and have the capability to shun the selfish survival-of-the-fittest instinct and come together as a race.
Perhaps I am being pessimistic but we created the filthy society that we live in today, so I am not so sure that it's possible for humans to be completely moral like the Venus Project believes we can be.



posted on Nov, 16 2008 @ 03:11 PM
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I joined ,we need something and this is a start nobody knows,how the eventual product will turn out ,but the way things are now are ridiculously unfair brutal and unsustainable. I don't know what to tell people who hide in the current slave master paradigm ,it's their security blanket,but when they see how betrayed they are and that their faith in the system is their doom maybe they'll wise up and look for an answer and see this as path to freedom and sustainability
one thing is for sure there's nothing to lose by trying,act as if, if you want something better



posted on Nov, 16 2008 @ 05:24 PM
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Very good observations,

To the point: When they say VP has no laws, i believe the imply that when
things are stable there only be exceptional laws, derived from persons
with pathological or chemical unbalance (crazy, addicts).

There is this excerpt from the site i want to you read:
"A truly sane society, which understands what we are and how our value
systems are created, would take the individual and learn the reasons
behind his or her violent actions. This information would then go to a
research department which considers how to stop such conditions from
occurring through education."



I see this world not working out though, because there are jobs that HAVE to be done by humans but that a human who is not gaining anything by doing these jobs might not ever do.


Answer: this is the current monetary world view. With no need to survival
(you have a place to live and food to eat for the rest of your live) this
things are out of place and incentive comes from a healthy cycle of giving
and receiving.



There has to be someone managing the robots doing the hard labor.
There has to be someone who decides when the road needs to be fixed on
Section Street, and there has to be someone who takes the lead into
organizing the robots to go and fix that road.


Answer: I see this very decentralized and regional, done by the local
technicians who will constantly learn better ways to sustainability and
sharing this info to all other areas. I point this earlier in my post, with
research deps and peer reviews and forecast, experiment data.



There has to be someone who designs the cities.
There has to be someone who does all of these things and without getting
paid to do these things, why would anyone step up to the job?


Answer: The point of a resource based society is not to give 'jobs' for
everyone, thats the OLD way. The point about this society is create
abundance, with constant automation of hard-labor activities, while
the individuals whom benefits from a safety net (housing, food, energy)
VOLUNTEER work for the constant upgrade of everything that us humans
need to have a decent, free life.



Perhaps humans really are moral creatures at birth and society shapes
them to be evil. But we have to remember that humans originally were
the ones who shaped SOCIETY. And I think that if this utopian society
were possible, then wouldn't humans have started out doing this?


Answer: I strongely disagree. A child behaves like the education of his
parents. If a society prepares you to be a sheep, and the world outside its
survival mode in wich profits are the main goal, you cant expect good
behaviour. Its impossible. If you live in a poor town where there is no jobs
what can u do? Go to school where you stop earning the available sweat-
shops gives to buy your food? People WILL join crime.



I am just saying, that, with my observations of the way humans act now
and the way they always have seemed to act, the society would crumble.
There are too many people who only want stuff for themselves, who only
want to be in power, and who don't care about anyone else prospering.
One could argue that society causes us to be that way... but a), we don't
know if that's true, and b), humans are the people who created society in
the first place. It just seems incredibly unlikely.


Answer: I think we dont shaped society, the ones who did it they dont
report to anyone and thats the main problem. A child born in the deep
amazon forest learn to live from the environment. We, the modern
civilization, live from the profit of anything with scarsity as the goal.

This society is insane, while indians lived milenia before us.
This is something for you to think.

(continue on next post)



posted on Nov, 16 2008 @ 05:27 PM
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And back to my concert metaphor.
If there is no money to buy tickets to a concert, who decides who gets to sit front row and who has to sit balcony?
Is it a first come first serve basis?
Because then, the people who are faster and stronger start becoming the ones who get the front row tickets.
The people who are faster and stronger are the ones who get further in life because they have the capabilities to move quicker and get farther in a set amount of time, while the weaker ones get left behind.
Who knows if morals would really kick in, but is it even feasible that humans would somehow be moral and give the weaker ones the front row seats?
No.
Humans have a survival instinct, and that instinct causes humans to be selfish during times like this.


Answer: Ok, lets analize this situation. You reported a event in the
monetary world. You assume a valid points over this system, wich : a)
you have to be elite to see it. b) pay more for better sits,

If you remove the money and elitism in this picture, all events will be
more like the following: a) how everyone could see the show. b) how
everyone could see the show in the best way possible.

Resolving this situations will come to this: we have the resources? we
have a project thats describes and solves this particular problem with
predictable results that can be measured and improved?

This is one way to resolve this issue, im sure inteligent people can come
with better schemes.
You get my point?




Anyways, who knows.
When you really think about, and go over it a few times in your head, you realize that the VP is only possible if humans are born inherently good and have the capability to shun the selfish survival-of-the-fittest instinct and come together as a race.
Perhaps I am being pessimistic but we created the filthy society that we live in today, so I am not so sure that it's possible for humans to be completely moral like the Venus Project believes we can be.


Answer: Fear is not understanding. When we understand things, get more
information and truly perceive things as they are, the fear is gone.

I hope people in this thread are loosing their fears based of
understanding, not blindinly embrassing any 'new-age' idea just because
fills their gaps of personal problems.

I strongely recommend the ATSMIX of David Icke, when he addresses
the 'croud' and 'sheep' society of today. I think Peter joseph, if released a
new addendum version in 2009 should incorporate some of his
testimonials. We are infinite consciousness, i cant agree more.



difsjf,

Sorry for not responding well your questions before.


invisiblewoman,

I wanna give you a big hug




Peace is coming!

To sum up this post:
Embrace and love your fears, thats the way of understanding life, thats the way for oneness.

[]´s

Robert

[edit on 16-11-2008 by RobertPaulsim]



posted on Nov, 16 2008 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by Shocka
 



posted on Nov, 16 2008 @ 07:21 PM
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This an excerpt from the show:

David Icke:

"...We are gonna realize, that this crazy, insane, stupid juvenile
world that we call it, is not the cutting edge of human evolution. Its
a playground for idiots. Its a world wich the fast you destroy the
planet your living on, the more economicaly successfull you are
perceived to be. (...) Tic, tac, you... are... feeling... sleepy.... (...)
Bore is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength. (...)
Everything is backwards, everything is upside down: doctors
destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroys
knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media
destroys information and religion destroys spirituality."

Robert.

[edit on 16-11-2008 by RobertPaulsim]



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 01:47 AM
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i AM in this too! Power Companies are taking advantage of us, I agree with them that we need to fight back, support the people who are trying to maximize the use of renewable resources



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 04:23 AM
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The second major flaw of the christian religion is the practice of the "remission of sins"......unbearable

God only knows how bright the world could be if we practiced only "moderation" as the ancients did...

[edit on 17-11-2008 by ThePetrus]



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 06:13 PM
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I agree and accept many ideas of this movie, but not joining any movements as it would contradict to my beliefs and the ideas of author's. Why? Just because it criticized political systems, finance and any other hierarchy seen as controling our lives and restricting us. By joining any group you accept the fact that any organization has its own leader and you cannot avoid any confclicts within the group, because of different needs of every human being. That means that someone will have to direct actions of the movement. But what is the purpose of this movement... To ignore existing systems and create anarchy? What will you achieve by ignoring news, politics and other contemporary tools, that help one to survive in this environment? No one can survive without money in today's world, you need it, more or less. Nevertheless, I think everyone should learn from this film and take the message that author is trying to send us: start thinking of ways to become independent from huge monopolies, like oil industry, start being environmentally friendly by using alternative energy sources, therefore decreasing the need of money and slowing its turnover. The idea is to turn back and think what we really are and what is our purpose in this world, and why should we pay someone for living our own lives. So in conclusion, I think people should seek self consciousness, self-improvement and progress, and be aware, that the seek of profit of industries will always try to slow it down. Innovation and thinking. And people with religious belief should not be blamed for their philosophy (please note that religion and fanatism are totally different things, "Everything that is small amounts is a cure, in big amounts is a poison"), as wisdom leads to morality. This is just my opinion and choice of way of living explained, I hope that some ideas of mine will be relevant to you aswell. Thank you.



posted on Nov, 17 2008 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by RobertPaulsim
 


big hugz back atcha! I actually am working on a proposal that might be a start in the right direction towards this, something in the vain of what VP is trying but less pie in the sky and more practical and less grandiose.

I'm trying to get it framed out step by step goals and methods of implementation .
I think I'm going to introduce it as it's own thread,and get some feedback that way

I think about this all the time ,and I really think I'm on to something this time



posted on Nov, 18 2008 @ 02:17 AM
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You're ALL sheep... if all it takes is another piece of propaganda, with information at face value to start a new revolution, then we truly are doomed.

Before you try to save the world, try to save yourselves and the world shall follow.



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