Women genetically less intelligent than Men?

Well to answer your question it has been known for decades that iq tests can be made to favor men over woman or vise versa we think differently that doesn't make one better over the other however. Oh and woman tend to do better in logic and guys handle abstract better opposite of what most people think. You see this in how directions are handled by male and female a guy can say you go to particular street turn right a woman will use land marks like turn right at the wal mart.

reply to post by Sonya610


Im white, and on the whole we have a lot to answer to ...dont you agree?

IMO the white man is forcing his views on how the world should be down evey N*****S throte?

Sorry for the profanity but sometimes you have to.

Originally posted by Heike
Now, my point. In order to postulate that women have been "dumbed down" by generations of repression or lack of education, one would have to assume that men have selected women for reproduction based on lack of intelligence.

Thus I think it likely that men chose in favor of intelligent women despite lack of formal education because their basic potential intelligence caused them to be more successful in other more "acceptable" areas of their lives.

Historically speaking alpha males in advanced societies have chosen wives that were of reasonably equal social status and/or from wealthy families. A very rich or a highly educated male typically would not be allowed to find himself an attractive scullery maid who came from simple family with a very low iq and decide to make her his wife and have her bear all of his children (he may keep her as his mistress and have children with her, but she would NOT be his wife, and she would NOT bear the heirs to his family fortune).

Even though the men often would not choose their wives specifically for their intellectual abilities the requirement to choose women from “good families” assured that in all probability the women would be reasonably good choices. Since the definition of a "good family" directly correlated with the success of that family, either in business, by blood, or through military prowess, it did typically mean that good families had above average iq's.

In fact when it comes to sex appeal men of course have a tendency to choose looks over brains, whereas women choose brains/success over looks. Social structure and various rules of conduct have probably done a lot to ensure the overall intelligence of some genetic lines (i.e. it keeps bright men from making stupid decisions and marrying the dumb chick with the large chest).

[edit on 5-10-2008 by Sonya610]

reply to post by skeptic1


I'd say, as a Guess recessive genes for higher intellect at work on both sides of the equation (mom and dad)

and... these are funny times growing up with so much media, hard to say that (and I honestly think) these generations are getting progressively brighter in terms of raw ability thanks to the overload of infromation available

reply to post by Valhall


Val whilst i take your point i bring up personal experience. I know an actual, verified genius and she has given up engineering to have a kid. Whilst her male counterparts actually gave up the idea of kids she just couldn't. She now has a kid and is enjoying being a parent but i lament the fact that she could have contributed so much.

So basically yeah my opinion i'm leaving as it is, out of personal experience. I'm well aware of all the links you provided, i'm not that ignorant. You seem tainted by them, i'm looking at it logically.

The DNA thing should have been awarded more fairly.

reply to post by N.B.A.Y.S.O.H


I would say... exactly the opposite would be true. I have little recolection of forceing anything down anyones throat ( intellectually ) in my life.

But rather I am forced to accept and listen to tons of racist tripe about what I am and expose myself and deal with and respect endless cultures regardless of my beliefs the last 20 years or so.

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Could be recessive genes, but no one in my family is a rocket scientist. In fact, there are several mentally disabled (from birth) members of my family.

Genetics may provide a basis for intellect, but I honestly feel that environment plays more of a "growing" role in how smart we become and how we expand the basis we are all born with.

Yes, and royalty interbred for years and turned out some pretty strange maladies. In genetics the larger the gene pool the greater the genetic health. The pretty skully maid had a real chance of possessing good genetic material to increase the genetic pool.

Originally posted by dragonridr
Oh and woman tend to do better in logic and guys handle abstract better

You're kidding right?

Why do you assume "men" and "women" are so clarifiable?

6.5 billion individuals....nothing less.

Originally posted by mystiq
Yes, and royalty interbred for years and turned out some pretty strange maladies. In genetics the larger the gene pool the greater the genetic health. The pretty skully maid had a real chance of possessing good genetic material to increase the genetic pool.

Genetic resistance to disease perhaps, but intelligence is not improved on the high end by "diversifying" the genepool and mixing individuals with iq's of 140 with those of 85.

And yes the inbreeding practices of some royal families caused genetic problems, however it also produced geniuses.

[edit on 5-10-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by Ghost147
*slaps lucid* lol i hope you didnt actually mean it when you asked that. damn internet, it can show love, rage and respect, but never sarcasm.

Yeah I meant it. I wanted to know which religion to add to my black-list

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


lol, might as well just put all of them on it. (i dont actually meen that, lol, just incase anyone thought i did)

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


That's interesting, I was a child prodigy, some times I talk about money or success in here, but the reality is... I have no desire but to free myself from slavery...

Wouldn't think it would take being "a genius" to realize what the rat race really is, but having a child and "not using that big IQ" is probably very indicitive of having that big IQ

I have...few motives to power or money beyond personal freedom, could care less about money and... make a bunch, but often just have gone broke because I choose to live and do things and have adventures above and beyond being trapped by it

High IQ and what others think of as success I think have little in common...

and this debate is kind of funny

because who wants such a High IQ anyway... life is very difficult when people always fear you, my life in many way has been a nightmare at times of people who can't understand me... at least if I was a Retard people would have compassion but when your smarter than everyone else in a genuine way your very isolated

Over 60% of gifted people are introverted compared with 30% of the general population. Over 75% of highly gifted people are introverted. (The percentage of introverts seems to increase with IQ (Silverman).) Introversion correlates with introspection, reflection, the ability to inhibit
aggression, deep sensitivity, moral development, high academic achievement, scholarly contributions, leadership in academic and aesthetic fields in adult life, and smoother passage through mid-life; however, it is very likely to be misunderstood and "corrected" in children.

Trust me I was "corrected" constantly

1) Since so much comes easily to them, they may never acquire the self-discipline necessary to use their gifts to the fullest. A gifted child who drifts in school unrecognized will work chronically below her capacity and receive daily practice in habits of idleness and daydreaming.

2) Gifted people are typically capable of so many different kinds of success that they have trouble confining themselves to a reasonable number of pursuits. Some of them are lost to usefulness through spreading their available time and energy over such a wide array of projects that nothing can be finished or done well.

3) Gifted people have trouble learning to suffer fools gladly, or at all. Failure to learn how to tolerate in a reasonable fashion the foolishness of others leads to bitterness, disillusionment and misanthropy.

4) Gifted people tend to become isolated from the rest of humanity. Gifted children strive to play with other children but their efforts are defeated by the fact that other children do not share their interests, their vocabulary or their desire to organize activities. As a result, forms of solitary play develop, and these may explain the fact that many highly intelligent adults are shy, ungregarious and even misanthropic and uncomfortable in ordinary social interaction.

5) Gifted people, detecting the illogical conduct of those in charge of their affairs, may turn rebellious against all authority and develop negativism to a conspicuous degree. Negative individuals abound in every high IQ society. (*Note - I'm not sure this is all bad, but then, I'm a cynic.)

correct on all counts

Those who test above 180 IQ are characterized by a strong desire for personal privacy.
The really difficult problems of adjustment to life and to people come to those who test above 170 IQ.
The more intelligent a person is, the less often can he or she find a truly congenial companion.
Studies of child prodigies have shown that a large proportion of them were first-born or only children or in some other "special" position in the family, perhaps a late last child.
Highly intelligent people are often very frustrated by the irrationality around them. Said Jeff Ward of Mega: "a fair number of [high IQ people] are reclusive or even misanthropic, with a common thread of frustration."
What is normal for the gifted is most often labeled as neurosis in the general population. (Azpeitia and Rocamora.)

Not exactly an easy life

from

and what are the results of having a High IQ in America? Do myou get anything? I was supposed to go to College in the 3rd grade... and my mother refused this...

At the University of New South Wales, Gross conducted a longitudinal study of 60 Australians who scored at least 160 on IQ tests beginning in the late '80s. Today most of the 33 students who were not allowed to skip grades have jaded views of education, and at least three are dropouts. "These young people find it very difficult to sustain friendships because, having been to a large extent socially isolated at school, they have had much less practice ... in developing and maintaining social relationships," Gross has written. "A number have had counseling. Two have been treated for severe depression." By contrast, the 17 kids who were able to skip at least three grades have mostly received Ph.D.s, and all have good friends.

Depression? LOL

Since at least the mid-1980s, schools have often forced gifted students to stay in age-assigned grades - even though a 160-IQ kid trying to learn at the pace of average, 100-IQ kids is akin to an average girl trying to learn at the pace of a retarded girl with an IQ of 40. Advocates for gifted kids consider one of the most pernicious results to be “cooperative learning” arrangements in which high-ability students are paired with struggling kids on projects. [Emphasis, The Stiletto’s.]

failing

Of 120 Gifted children Male and Female not allowed to skip grades in the 80's when keeping things level was reccomended by most psychologists

4 of every 5 had failed lives

1 Drug addiction
2 Depression
3 Suicide
4 Incarceration

Americas Geniuses get 1/10 the amount of funding of our Retards
(please feel free to clip and apply to appropriate threads )

Worse... what happens to some of us

Many gifted and talented children (and adults) are being mis-diagnosed by psychologists, psychiatrists, pediatricians, and other health care professionals. The most common mis-diagnoses are: Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), Oppositional Defiant Disorder (OD), Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD), and Mood Disorders such as Cyclothymic Disorder, Dysthymic Disorder, Depression, and Bi-Polar Disorder. These common mis-diagnoses stem from an ignorance among professionals about specific social and emotional characteristics of gifted children which are then mistakenly assumed by these professionals to be signs of pathology.

misdiagnosed


So i have to ask ... when we Debate IQ and SEX... does it actually matter for the average person?

My answer would be NO

If your in this position in America you are at RISK regardless of Sex... Women in fact, sufer more than men do for a variety of reasons

ar Men more intelligent than Women?

I have seen Nothing to indicate anything other than relatively equal numbers... just perhaps that more girls get lost and ignored than boys do on this subject

surveys are meaningless, so is the educational system... most geniuses drop out... anything below that is irrelevant in a discussion of Intelligence

at the top of the IQ ladder is a mess, and just as many Girls are there as boys are

Girls smarter than boys, boys smarter than girls...

of those I was around in therapy lol... mostly your just happy when you meet someone else who's not unbearably slow...

I don't know that sex ever enters the equation at that level...or money, or power...

Originally posted by Ghost147
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

lol, might as well just put all of them on it. (i dont actually meen that, lol, just incase anyone thought i did)

Well I do.

This world would be a much much better place if all the Churches burned to the ground.

Sorry for the OT everyone.

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
most geniuses drop out...

I knew it!

I dropped out my Freshman year in HS. School was pointless to me. I am a genius. Granted, I later sneaked in some college credits at the local JC

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


I think the drop out rate can be attributed, in part, to boredom.

I started college during my junior year of high school.....by then, I was bored to death. Would I have dropped out? No, 'cause my Momma would have drop-kicked my sorry butt back to school.

reply to post by skeptic1


I don't know, I was so radically out of the ball park I suppose it is hard to say, frankly I always felt like some sort of mutant regardless of how I was around so maybe the adoption factor to a degree is just my imagination at work.

Although I will say this, I lean on genetics because

No one taught me to read at 3, no one in my house read lol... but me

I wasn't in a nurturing environment on most levels, emotionall, kind of, decent family,

but... like you no rocket scientists to add to my learning, I just was a little freak

Reading at 3

Fixed the house phone at 4

In Kindergarten I was reading Grendel a retelling of Beowlf from the monsters perspective, (looking back I was already jaded as hell) while the teacher was doing the abc's

My first book report in First Grade was James A. Michener's "Centennial" ( I got an F for not following instructions... the report was over 100 pages)

IN 2nd grade after city testing... I was at a HS graduating level in both Math and English

3rd grade they tested by IQ 186 and offered to put me in College


Nature vs Nurture... My Nurture did none of that LOL

I was thinking about this earlier, and something came to mind.

Helen Keller.

She was deaf and dumb, the world was invisible to her for most of her childhood. Yet despite that she not only learned to read and communicate, she eventually became a public speaker on philosophy and politics. She even wrote a book.

This isn't really convincing evidence to the OPs questions of course. I just view this personal account as the epitemy(sp?) of intelligence. Someone that used their mind against all odds and accomplished amazing mental feats... I love her story

Originally posted by skeptic1
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

I think the drop out rate can be attributed, in part, to boredom.

Yes boredom for sure. Lots of that.

The problem I have with school, including college (GE anyways) is that they tailor towards the common denominator. They also assess knowledge by testing on the memorization of facts instead of ones ability to abstract and apply what they learned in a dynamic situation.

reply to post by Ghost147


Lack of schooling is a guy thing too.

In the past (and in some countries to this day) if you were poor you either had no education or very little.

When women in Europe were allowed to attend universities,they were not held back by the fact that their female ancestors had no such education.The same with men who came from the lower classes.



And contrary to popular beliefthe brain is sexless and each one is capable of doing exactly the same things.What effects how we handle situations,for example,is the social world around us.





[edit on 5-10-2008 by jakyll]