Music stars unite to seek control

Music stars unite to seek control

news.bbc.co.uk

Robbie Williams, Radiohead, Kaiser Chiefs and The Verve are among the acts who have signed up to a new pressure group, the Featured Artists' Coalition.

UK pop and rock stars are taking action to try to gain ownership and control of their work from record labels.

It wants artists to keep the rights to the music they create and to have a greater say in how their songs are sold - and a bigger slice of the takings.

It is a sign of a shift in power in the music industry in the digital age.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.contactmusic.com
www.wtop.com

Hooray for Robbie and friends...

It's about time these greedy record companies stop complaining about copyright theft when it is them that do most of the thieving..direct from the performers themselves.

If these artists can take more, or all, control over all that they do, then this will not only free themselves of contracts, but allow a bigger audience and may even change the copyright rules and regs.

Many agencies, including the media, regularly dish out free music. This free music is then spread around. But who is actually paying the artists for this free stuff?

Is this part of the problem?

What can ATS and its members do to assist, if anything?


news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 4-10-2008 by Extralien]

I had the music business explained to me by the great songwriter,singer Mickey Nuberry and the goal of this coalition is what he had been advocating for years. An angel is smiling on these guys, may they benefit from their creativity and the corporate manipulators burn in Hell.

The vampyre music executives suck the artists dry, and then toss them to the side. Examples, are Little Richard, Bod Diddly, John C. Fogarty. They outright stole the music, or in John's case, wouldn't let him play new music because it sounded too much like Credence!
I hope these vampyres get a stake through their hearts, and then are left to burn in Hell!
There it cost less to manufacture a CD than a tape or vinyl, but the price just keeps going up!
To the artists out there. Good Luck! I'm behind you, and will do anything I can to help!

Oh i sure hope more artists unite. I always get scared thinking about the music industry and the thought that those artists might not even own their music. And than to think they aren't getting all the money they earn. Makes me want to start a record label that get's it's funds off of sponsors rather than profiting off the artists. It'd work more like a radio station works. This way, an artist can LEGALLY put their album up on the internet or never put it on here at all

edit to add: i completely agree with you kettlebellysmith, cd's should NEVER cost as much as they do right now, i'm not rich enough to support all the artists i like which increases every day, and today it's in the 300's. Let's say each artists has 3 albums...that $900!! I can't spit that!!

[edit on 4-10-2008 by screamo]

To highlight the point of what all these artists think and feel, I have to add this from the news report.

It sums up exactly why this group has been formed and what they aim to achieve. The strangle hold these record companies have on the market as a whole is immense and has been going on for far too long. I feel for all the artists who have suffered at the hands of these comapnies.

In the last 12 months, big names have seen their options multiply after a string of stars shunned traditional record contracts and found new ways of releasing music.

At the same time, many acts have felt they have been ignored when their record labels and music publishers have struck new digital deals.

The coalition also wants its members to be consulted more fully on how their music is used, the ways it is sold and who gets the money.

"Record and technology companies are signing agreements to deliver music to fans in new ways," its charter says.

"Artists are not involved in these negotiations and their interests are likely to be overlooked. Artists should receive fair compensation as part of these new deals."

news.bbc.co.uk...

All we need now is for Robbie to pop in and add his view on it all.
Heck, get Radio head in here too!!!

Let them all have a voice where we all know it will be heard loud and clear.

Here on ATS

Everything about the current record industry model is wrong. I'm struggling to think of a single positive feature of the current model. I could write pages on this but www.boycott-riaa.com... has some good basic information.

For years, the likes of the RIAA have had the gall to say they're protecting artists despite it being apparent to everyone that profits have always gone before the artists, who are no more than performing monkeys whilst the consumer is no more than an open wallet.

Steve Albini summed-up just how wrong a typical recording deal is in the early 1990s with this piece. This is the reality for most musicians in the music industry.

I really don't understand how this all actually exists. I'm not naive when it comes to crooked industries and politicians but this is a rip-off and extortion that has run into God knows how many billions over the years. I think many people think of it as 'only' entertainment as are blinded by the actual scale of what's gone on over the years.

Ugh.

Edited to add an example of what's wrong with all this. If people can remember how bad Iraq was in 2003, what the country lacked in infra-structure and basics due to the war (I think both pro and anti-war can admit that) think on how the RIAA's Hilary Rosen was helping rewrite Iraqi copyright laws to make them more in-line with the 'Disney copyright extensions'. Because copyright infringement was just such a pressing issue at the time.

[edit on 4-10-2008 by Merriman Weir]

I am to the point where is what I do now is when I steal a CD online..
I wait for the artist to show up in concert near where I live and and them 20 bucks for the CD..

To date I owe Type O Negative like 60 bucks and 3 Doors Down 40..

They should be rolling in this summer... However i have directly handed about 15 artists money from CDs I have stolen.. that way I know they actually get the money that is due to them without going thru some record store or site where they barely see any of that money.

[edit on 10/4/2008 by ThichHeaded]

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Steve Albini summed-up just how wrong a typical recording deal is in the early 1990s with this piece. This is the reality for most musicians in the music industry.

I was just about to post that.

It should be photocopied and handed out free with every purchase of a guitar, bass, keyboard, or drum kit (I'm sure the drummer can find someone to read it to him).

Back in the days of the Seattle grunge/ indie explosion, backstage areas were littered with walking sacks of excrement from various labels. I have two friends who spent roughly 10 years digging themselves out of the debt they incurred recording and touring an album that the record company made bank on - and then left them high and dry in contract limbo for years. Albini summed it up pretty well: you'll actually make more money working at the 7/11.

Thinking about that one: I've actually heard the line "It's not about the money, duuuuuude, it's about the Muuuusiiiic.". It's very important to remind these people that it may not be about the money for YOU, but it is completely and totally about the money for other people in the equation. they don't care about you, they don't care about your music. they care about money. big label, small label. no difference. Bend Over.

Thinking back to those days, there were scores of bands emerging. If you've ever asked "Where are they now?" - about a band you saw second or third on the bill, odds are pretty good they were placed in Purgatory by the record company, and had to stop preforming to settle their debts. In some cases, they aren't even allowed to preform together under the old name, or play any of their own material, because they don't own any of it anymore.

/rant

Robbie, if you are reading this thread, stick right up them mate. They have sucked you and other artists like you, dry for far too long. They are nothing but greedy SOB's that seek only to put a higher grade of fuel in their private jets.

I do not think there are too many ATSers that would not be behind you 100% on this mate.

Artists lose the rights to thier music because they sign them away in contracts.

It really is thier own fault, they get enticed by signing bonuses (which have to be paid back if the album fails) and the promise of riches, huge tours etc. Its their own greed. If your stupid enough not to read or understand what you sign I have no sympathy for you.

These artists are all huge draws, why? because MAJOR labels spend tons of money on thier promotion. Radiohead? Robbie Wiliams? Talented artists but they NEVER would have reached the level of sucsess they have without the Major's promotion. These huge artists are 1 percent of actual working muscians. Its comparing apples and oranges.

Who pays for the flashy videos?, Who pays DJs to play thier music (yeah that's how it works)? Who gets thier songs on the new teen drama tv show? Who pays for posters in your local chain cd store? Who get thier songs on commercials and video games?

Remember that only 1 in 10 albums actually make money for major labels.

And don't get me started on the amount of money that used to be paid for recording time in studios. Millions and millions of dollars used to be paid for a "BIG" artist to spend months in the studio with some big name producer stroking his ego, and if the album failed the younger artist suffered, that was wrong, but the major label needed someway to recoup thier investment. Its a business don't forget.




I would argue that the vast majority of indie artists who are on independent labels that may or may not have distribution deals with majors still have all rights to thier music. WHY?

They have learned from the mistakes of thier predecessors.
They aren't consumed with owning castles in Spain and having a garage full of ferraris. They only want to make A LIVING doing what they love. Isn't that what we all want?

Robbie Williams might consider a record he makes that sells 1 million albums a dissapointment. After the promotion expenes he may even get dropped from a major label, but indie artists that tour small venues and own thier own music might consider 100,000 records a huge finacial sucsess. Its all relative.

Yes the indusrty has changed and the model of a Major label is broken, its based on the ideas from the 60s,70s and 80s, but who cares? The artists on majors in the modern era aren't even relevent to whats going on in music.

Laying all the blame on the labels is nieve(sp). The artists of the past were just as much a part of the problem.

I cant think of any good musicans in the last 10-20 years who started from the get go on a Major. Instead the groups that will matter started on indies, toured, created a fanbase, made a living and then maybe after 10 years a bunch of EPs, LPs and splits signed to a major. At that point they already had the fanbase and power to dictate what kind of contact they would sign. They used the major to expand and the label used them for credibility and a good investment. Thats one of the few ways a major deal can be good for both parties, but its still rare.

Very very few people become millionaires in this business, but if you work hard, dedicate yourself and your GOOD (if your in this business you realize most bands and artists are not) you CAN make a living doing it.

I say if your so concerned with the artists, get off your couch turn the fotball game off wipe the chips off your shirt and go out and pay 5-10 bucks to see a REAL band who is actually relevant. You might actually enjoy it.

That is what you can do.




[edit on 5-10-2008 by drock905]

Strange how these major pop stars are victims to their contracts, squeezed for every penny going, and yet still manage to live in mansions and snort buckets of coke off of the arses of their admiring fans, then drive around in one of their many penis-compensating cars.

Amazing what you can achieve without money, innit?

Originally posted by drock905
It really is thier own fault, they get enticed by signing bonuses and the promise of riches, huge tours etc. Its their own greed.

These artists are all huge draws, why? because MAJOR labels spend tons of money on thier promotion.

Who pays for the flashy videos?, who pays DJs to play thier music(yeah thats how it works)?, who gets thier songs on the new teen drama tv show? Who pays for posters in your local chain cd store? Who get thier songs on commercials and video games?

They only want to make A LIVING doing what they love. Isn't that what we all want?

laying all the blame on the labels is also not right. The artists of the past were just as much a part of the problem.


but if you work hard, dedicate yourself and your GOOD


[edit on 5-10-2008 by drock905]

With respect, I beg to differ, though to an extent agree. Yes there are those who are in it just for the money, but it is these that are, IMO, the majority of the problem.

Let's take a look at someone like the Spice Girls for example. Bunch of nobody's who become famous over night... Then there is the Sex Pistols, couldn't sing, couldn't play instruments... but famous.

The difference is, the Sex Pistols did it because they enjoyed it, they wanted to put a message across. The Spice Girls did it 'cos they wanted to be 'famous' and make lots of money.

I've no idea where you got the info about DJ's being paid by these artists promotional companies to play the music. Last I heard there was the PRS (performing rights society) running around everywhere ensuring every business, shop, restaurant, radio station and outside toilet was paying money to play music. And from what I remember, a list had to be provided to show what songs were actually being played.

Radio stations pay DJ's. Radio stations pay the PRS. Nightclub DJ's are paid by the nightclub.

Yes, they do want to make a living but it s not always from their music. Most do it for the pleasure, as I'm sure we can all agree on that. Here's one example of such a band who broke away from the norm and spread the word on the internet;
VNV Nation

2003 : VNV Nation form their own label "Anachron Sounds" to exclusively handle all future releases by VNV Nation. The first release is the Honour 2003 EP in June 2003.

I know at one time they were putting their music online for free for people to download.

Being a good artist depends on personal tastes of the listener...
Take the band Violent Femmes
To some they are just noise, to others they are downright disgusting and to others still, they are some of the best performers going. Takie the time to listen to some of their lyrics... they are strange to say the least, yet from a listeners point of view and with the appreciation of the artists message, I can see their point. Same principle with Rage Against the Machine

What radio station is able to play their music at midday or 5pm without the lyrics being editted... what then?... what further coverage can groups like this get? Everyone deserves a stab at what they enjoy, yes...

So open up the internet, open up the choices, give them the freedom to perform and be appreciated for it.

If you start out as a nobody and work hard playing on the streets or in clubs for no money at all, then you're an artist.. if you go along to sign up for some boy/girl pop band audition then you're a wannabe, although some do break free from the mould and strike out to be something quite phenomenal.

I just remembered... The Sex Pistols were also as fabricated as the Spice Girls. They were created by Malcolm Mclaren, but John Lydon whent on to do rather well and nother member ended up dead and famous in his own little way. The point was on the styles and differences though and I'm sure you all know what i meant.

[edit on 5-10-2008 by Extralien]

Originally posted by C.C.Benjamin
Strange how these major pop stars are victims to their contracts, squeezed for every penny going, and yet still manage to live in mansions and snort buckets of coke off of the arses of their admiring fans, then drive around in one of their many penis-compensating cars.

Amazing what you can achieve without money, innit?

Thats another goodpoint, to add these type of Major pop stars live in a complete bubble. They think they know what is going on based on thier past experiences. It has all changed so much in the last 10 years and they are so out of the loop of reality they have no idea what actually happens.

A example would be Lars Ulrich's fight with napster 9ish years ago? How much of an idiot did he come across as? My friends who are in small groups embraced the technology when it became widespread, because it got people to go to thier SHOWS!!!!!!! Only the huge acts fought it because they didn't understand how it was benfical to young groups.

As far as I know Robbie Williams doesn't actually write any of his own songs (or lyrics), he simply "performs" them... I find it highly amusing that he would be attempting to gain "control and ownership" of them.

reply to post by NeuronDivide


That's the whole point. He wants to be able to write and sing his own music. At the moment he is just given a sheet of music and told to sing it.

Originally posted by NeuronDivide
As far as I know Robbie Williams doesn't actually write any of his own songs (or lyrics), he simply "performs" them... I find it highly amusing that he would be attempting to gain "control and ownership" of them.

Well that's where you're wrong, he DOES write his own songs. He had a partnership with Guy Chambers for a while, but yes he is a songwriter in his own right. I don't find your assessment of Robbie Williams amusing at all, it's downright ignorant and disrespectful.

Good on Robbie, good on Radiohead, and good on everyone else. This is how it should be done. I don't buy a lot of cds these days either, but when a concert comes to town I support them and all the merchandise, t-shirts, things like that.

To answer the question about radio stations, Ive talked to people maybe about 5 years ago who work in the field and they said how a band would get added to the "programing list" would be the label may fly the programming director to Hawaii or somewhere similar for a "listening party" of a artist to get them on the radio, because they couldn't outright pay them cash. I assumed this only applies to corporate owned stations. Which are another whole problem in the indusrty.

I agree with you that the major artists who are only out for the money do kill it for the ones that aren't, but that only applies to major labels. If your on an indie or have created your own label your not affected by them as much or at all.

Yes i agree music is subjective, I didn't mean to say that if I think its good, its just that the vast majority of bands are carbon copies of what they think people want or are more style then substance. As long as your interesting and have something to offer you can make a living at it. You will find the fanbase.

Violet Femmes although I'm not a fan I respect them because they are unique.

On a side note. I have to diagree with Sex pistols, they were a created band like the spice girls just not to the same degree. Not to say they weren't good or changed the scene but they were a Pop band in different clothes. For a such raw "punk rock" record the 1st album is claimed to be It sure is one of the more polished and produced early records in the genre.

With the internet and digtal recording being cheap its great that pretty much anyone can make a record and get it out there. Theres more garbage but also more to discover.

The way its changing is amazing and bands have all the control they didn't have in the past which is great. This is the best time ever in music IMO.

YESS OH MY GOD.

I'm excited for them, but even more excited for the young listeners. These people are born into a world where music has become formulaic in it's creation, and just low and shallow in it's means of marketing. You don't have to have any talent if your pants look cool enough and your hair swoops at the right angle.

Perhaps with this once again people who release music will also be the people that care about what a song sounds like and not the image of the band.

reply to post by drock905


Thanks for the follow up.

And yes I did remember about the Sex Pistols being created and edited my post accordingly, possibly while you were writing your last one here.

One person stands out who was an actual complete accident yet one of the most famous singers ever..

Elvis Presley

Goes in to make a record for his ums birthday, comes out being named the King...

Funny how it goes. But this was one person where it just happened to go right. The funny thing is, that it was all these record companies that got him there..and why? Because they saw one big fat juicy meal ticket..no other reason IMO

Lots of rumours about the real cause of his demise too.

Then you have groups like the Doors. A bit of poetry led to a complete new change of direction for music.