God was wrong?! Not biblically possible.

If it is possible that time had a begining (big bang) its also possible it could have an end. Most theologians would Not want God to come into being at the beginning of time and cease to exist if it should come to an end.

And this is were Problems start to arise with 'God'

Could the designer have choosen a different universe, or chosen not to make a universe at all? .... if the answer is no, then God had no alternative but to create this universe and plays no role at all in the explanation - and so does not merit the title 'designer'.
Nature is reduced to a subset of the divine being rather than a creation of this being. in fact this scenario might as well do away with a designer altogether.

Christians, however, traditionally believe something quite different.

They believe that God created this particular universe as a free act: that is, God was free to not make this universe. but this comes with its own set of difficulties, because we can ask why it was that God chose to make this universe, as opposed to a lifeless one, or one with maximum suffering.

If the reply is 'it's unfathomable' then the chain of explanation peters out. If the answer is that the choice was blind then again the element of design is lost, because if the selection was purely whimsical, then the universe is reduced to a divine plaything.

But if the answer is that the decision to make the universe was a profound and considered one which proceeded from God's nature, then one is prompted to ask about the source of this nature. In other words who designed the designer? making God not god/designer/creator after all..


And this is the problem of God , and even though in current science people agree that the universe looks like it was designed, Any thing you take as fact from mass organised religions, is probably way off the mark.

Originally posted by Umbra Sideralis
I personaly think how fantastic is a Topic about "God", and his posible "errors", but nobody talks about "The Devil"...how weird it's this?!
If we will talk about whatever related to God, and the chaos in the world, we can't put "The Devil" in a void, and forget it!

Most people don't mention him because they don't kmow he exists. All the immoral things people do are his thoughts yet people believe the thought is their own.

Like the old saying goes.........

Greatest trick the devil ever pulled,was convincing the world he didn't exist.

Another question I have is WHY does everyone still persecute Christ and his followers over 2000 years later and never mention any other diety, prophet, sacred cow,8 legged and armed freak and so on? Just curious .

Originally posted by 19DCW71
Another question I have is WHY does everyone still persecute Christ and his followers over 2000 years later and never mention any other diety, prophet, sacred cow,8 legged and armed freak and so on? Just curious.

1)People are persecuted only when they convince themselves they are persecuted.

2)Christians may have more public wrath aimed at them because of their size and the fact that their influence is strongly effecting things in our country it should not be influencing. Perhaps if people weren't trying to convert the whole planet to their beliefs, people wouldn't get so upset about them.

Christianity is the largest group trying to cover the earth and next is Islam.




[edit on 4-10-2008 by mmariebored]

Great pos Quantum_Squirrel, ill have to ponder over your points. maybe another awesome topic will answer the questions? lol

Originally posted by 19DCW71

Originally posted by Umbra Sideralis
I personaly think how fantastic is a Topic about "God", and his posible "errors", but nobody talks about "The Devil"...how weird it's this?!
If we will talk about whatever related to God, and the chaos in the world, we can't put "The Devil" in a void, and forget it!

Most people don't mention him because they don't kmow he exists.

excuse me? if that is the case, then everyone has just as much proof as the devil existing as do they with god existing.

[edit on 4/10/08 by Ghost147]

Originally posted by Ghost147
This is more of a question towards Christianity, rather then the disproof in god....

In many believes, creationism suggests that God created man, as he created many other things, or possibly all other things. But was Man a mistake?

If Man is one of the leading causes in the depletion of all these species, along with polluting the air, the water, and the earth itself, not only that, but the overuse of natural resources, some that we can never re-gain, the abuse of deforestation, and so on. Wouldn't that mean that god made a mistake in creating us?

or! If God did create us for a reason, wouldn't it be to destroy this planet? if so, why?

metaphorically, we could very well be gods eraser. It may not have been us that was the mistake, but earth? maybe God needs us to fix is misfortunes by distroying our own planet?

1rst, your question is perfectly "logical" and no question is ever a stupid question. You have some deep thoughts here and it shows that you've collected many different teachings and are in the process of sorting it all out.
Signs of intelligence.

Back to your question. It is my belief that God is in every aspect of life on this earth and in the whole universe. I believe he created many planets in many galaxies and, who knows, there may be other "earths" with intelligent life on them who already underwent the stages that we're going through now. When you think about God, it's best to think beyond this earth. That will answer your question.

We, all of mankind, are learning as we go. We'll make mistakes along the way. Hopefully, we'll stop fighting and start working together, soon. Then maybe we'll catch up to other planets who are older than us and doing much better, having made the same mistakes we're making and having learned how to run a planet in a state of perfection; the goal we should be striving towards.

How are immoral thoughts the devil's thoughts, and how do they get into our head? lol. Again, immorality is totally subjective. You could say gay marriage is immoral therefor sent by the devil or whatever phrase you want to use, but someone in another religion might celebrate gay marriage and think of homosexuality as a blessing, which some religions have. Where is the truth? Immorality is based on how you feel about a topic (pleasure vs. pain), which is totally independent of whether or not it is actually immoral. If people raised as Christians were born in another country, say India, they would reject Christianity and embrace Hinduism. Or if you are gay, you will think it is a normal thing, but if you aren't, you'll think its a sin and push that belief on others. How would someone determine the truth, I'm curious.

The universe was created for humans, so I don't know why God would chose to not make a universe. I don't understand how God "has no role in the explanation of the universe". Why would God make a lifeless universe? He made a universe so that we could exist with him. Nature is indeed a force from God.


[edit on 4-10-2008 by ghaleon12]

Originally posted by ghaleon12
How are immoral thoughts the devil's thoughts, and how do they get into our head? lol. Again, immorality is totally subjective. You could say gay marriage is immoral therefor sent by the devil or whatever phrase you want to use, but someone in another religion might celebrate gay marriage and think of homosexuality as a blessing, which some religions have. Where is the truth? Immorality is based on how you feel about a topic (pleasure vs. pain), which is totally independent of whether or not it is actually immoral. If people raised as Christians were born in another country, say India, they would reject Christianity and embrace Hinduism. Or if you are gay, you will think it is a normal thing, but if you aren't, you'll think its a sin and push that belief on others. How would someone determine the truth, I'm curious.

[edit on 4-10-2008 by ghaleon12]

Maybe we should just stick to the easy rule: "do unto others as you'd have them do unto you", and leave it at that.

Originally posted by mmariebored
1rst, your question is perfectly "logical" and no question is ever a stupid question. You have some deep thoughts here and it shows that you've collected many different teachings and are in the process of sorting it all out.
Signs of intelligence.

Back to your question. It is my belief that God is in every aspect of life on this earth and in the whole universe. I believe he created many planets in many galaxies and, who knows, there may be other "earths" with intelligent life on them who already underwent the stages that we're going through now. When you think about God, it's best to think beyond this earth. That will answer your question.

We, all of mankind, are learning as we go. We'll make mistakes along the way. Hopefully, we'll stop fighting and start working together, soon. Then maybe we'll catch up to other planets who are older than us and doing much better, having made the same mistakes we're making and having learned how to run a planet in a state of perfection; the goal we should be striving towards.

lol thanks. however, this doesnt fully answer my question. bassically because im focusing on christianity, which, unfortunatly, focus' generally always towards earth and more specifically man.

I completely agree that if we band together we would achieve more, however, i doubt that will ever happen.

But, if you believe in other planets having inteligent life on it, ones that surpass us in age and "greatness", what would be the point of them? why would god make them? or continue making them? possibly because one failed? which would leed back to my original question being... Did god make a mistake?

there are no mistakes in nature.
there is process.

we inject all this higher purpose into the discussion because - we can.

If you're looking for a Christian answer to why life would/might exist on other planets, I'm not sure if you'll find one. I think I remember the catholic Church found a phrase in the Bible that supported their new view that aliens could be accepted as catholics (lol, I know). Here's a link www.foxnews.com...

A lot of these questions have no answers. We see the consquences but the source of those actions is somewhat unattainable.

In order to determine the possibility of something failing, you need to have knowledge of what is success, but it doesn't seem like you know that. How would something (that God created) fail?



[edit on 4-10-2008 by ghaleon12]

in many believes, creationism suggests that God created man, as he created many other things, or possibly all other things. But was Man a mistake?

If Man is one of the leading causes in the depletion of all these species, along with polluting the air, the water, and the earth itself, not only that, but the overuse of natural resources, some that we can never re-gain, the abuse of deforestation, and so on. Wouldn't that mean that god made a mistake in creating us?

or! If God did create us for a reason, wouldn't it be to destroy this planet? if so, why?

metaphorically, we could very well be gods eraser. It may not have been us that was the mistake, but earth? maybe God needs us to fix is misfortunes by distroying our own planet?

You left out one important possibility: experiment! We could be a template for future life and society structure on other planets. Or a prequel to a future human society with all of its kinks worked out!!

There are verses that say that God is going to destroy those who are destroying the earth. But, my thoughts are; that all he had to do was lift a protective veil from off the earth and this created a set of events taking place for many years that have been producing catastrophic results.

Implementing natural occurrences with the earth and its vegetation and animal life ( on a more consistent basis) that would have an effect on humans as well. It explains the state of the world and mankind.

I do believe we have reached a time of accountability whether one believes in a higher power or not.

reply to post by ghaleon12

Sorry for the long post!

Alright I agree with you on the organized religion. Even Jesus fought the organized religion of his day. Now as for the Global temperature going up haven't you heard it is not Global Warming anymore it is Global Climate Change and they are talking about us actually going into a little ice age because of the lack of sunspots for a month a couple of month's ago. Now for your question was God wrong about making man? No, The earth is a testing ground for man, When man ate of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil he was opened to Lucifer himself and since Lucifer was already a jealous angel he started to corrupt man by having his angels breed with the woman of the earth, and teaching there children rituals and dark arts stuff(secret societies) Over time these members grew and grew always following what there parents taught them which has been passed down for generations. Many powerful families are included in these groups, many you or I have never heard of before. Still they have worked really in according to God. Remember in order for the Bible to be true God has to know what is going to happen, so God uses both those who are with God and those who are against God in order for his word to come to pass Man is a pawn in a bigger game between God and Lucifer. for thousands of years Lucifer has been at work destroying man's knowledge of God using man himself in order to keep us apart from God. Lucifer does not like the fact that God loves man so much that God is willing to forgive all of man's most aweful sins if we only believe that Jesus did die on that cross for all of our sins
Now why would the animals be disappearing, Maybe just maybe God planned it this way, why would God want to put the creatures of this earth through what he is about to put man through. Example, Honey Bee's, have you heard they are disappearing at an alarming rate. What do honey bee's do they pollunate all the flowers and trees, many different type's atleast. Now with them disappearing all the food supply or atleast a large portion will slowly disappear. which will cause famine in many parts of the world, When one species dies another species takes it's place usually the enemy of the species that died. Man has been a big cause of many animals disappearing but most have disappear due to natural cause(non man made) through out time.
There is no eveolution, Evolution has never been proven as fact only hypothisis. Now the Bible has been proven to be factually correct. You say you "were" a christian. I say maybe you think you were but never really was. I have known God my whole life. Never went to church until I was an adult. That was after I asked Jesus to be Savior. I still didn't last long at church because of organized religion. But I also knew that my relationship with God was between God and myself, No church leaders or family or friends, just God and myself.

Originally posted by Ghost147
But, if you believe in other planets having intelligent life on it, ones that surpass us in age and "greatness", what would be the point of them? why would god make them? or continue making them? possibly because one failed? which would lead back to my original question being... Did god make a mistake?

No, God did not make a mistake. That's like saying a parent made a mistake for having a child just because the child goes through lessons in his life and makes some bad decisions.

What would be the point of other planets? The same as life on this planet.
Maybe God went and planted life all over the universe, like Johnny Appleseed, pioneering a journey and continues to do so even now. Who can know it?

reply to post by Umbra Sideralis


Its not that I personally dont talk about the devil I simply dont beleive either exist and there is alot more people waving the flag for god rather than the devil. If they did I would be right there to siply say it is a figment of peoples imagination.

They where both created in a time when people where looking for more and needed something to grasp onto

reply to post by ghaleon12


Reminds you of a southpark episode with the religous people asking for donations to build some great big interstella ship to spread the word of god

reply to post by mullet35


Not everyone who believes in God is religious.

reply to post by mmariebored


Organized religion is a contrived agenda for man to make there way to God. But if you look at what the Bible actualy does say ?

We cannot in anyway make ourselves acceptable to a Holy God. Just take a look at us its quite obvious that we are more than a little messed up wouldnt you agree?. So no matter what things you do or myself we stand guilty before Him. There was no option for man but to recieve His wrath. But there was His (God's) plan and that was the sacrifice of the Blood of a man. Because without the shedding of blood there is no remissions for sin. But just not any man but the blood of a man who was righteous, meaning perfect! There was never a man in history to ever have lived a perfect life. And the bible is clear that God himself had to take on the form of a man and be that sacrifice because no other man/woman could. If man was every to have a chance it would would have to be their creator who had to do man's redeeming. And that redemption was thru Jesus.

We all think it is noble to look for truth, but the big question is, what will we do when faced with truth. So my point is in a nutshell if man had his hand in it, it's flawed period. And if you look to religion for justification you will be very, very, very disappointed.

Originally posted by ghaleon12
God is responsible for the negitive things you see in the world, not man. God controls everything including ourselves. The world only exists for man and it doesn't matter what happens to it.

So we are not accountable for anything then? We can just blame God! Ill bet the Devil will be happy to hear that you have found us ALL a new scapegoat. He controls "everything" including ourselves? So much for judgement day and all that eh? We can just say Hey God, you were controlling me so your argument isn't with me ,,

it's with yourself

Nope don't think thats how it works

As far as the creation and destruction of man are concerned I don't feel that there is really a face to place the blame and say "you've made a mistake".

Your basically buying into the whole idea that God was fully aware of his or rather it's ability to create or destroy anything at all. Yes, it is written in more than one ancient text depicting the creation of the world, man,
animals, and all life within it, but only to engage the reader to understand and identify the events that had taken place.

An example of similarities of creation and destruction in a few religious belief systems are from the well known biblical accounts, and the same creation story of the Mayan and Sumerian beliefs.

Christian Creation - www.carm.org...

Mayan Creation - www.trivia-library.com...

Sumerian - www.geocities.com...

Naturally these can be taken literally or metaphorically. I personally prefer the ladder.

Now if you haven't exactly caught on yet then please read on.

God has always been spoken of as the uncontrollable or unalterable and best of all, the only thing to ever be feared. God is the creater and the destroyer.

If you read the book of revelations for example it is clearly describing a cataclysmic event brought on by a birage of celestial debris. It is also the same for the end of days stories of the Mayan and Sumerian belief as well.

Therefore with that being said, and with the knoweldge of science in this day and age as well as the simple comparison and studies on the matter it seems less difficult then previously thought to come to the conclusion that this astroid, planet, celestial debris, has been the cause of our creation and our inevitable destruction.

After all, what we know of celestial bodies is that they tend to stay on the same course. Take Halley's comet for example. This would best represent the Mayan belief that there are set dates for an old world to end and a new world to begin. Naturally it's a give or take dating system.

Of course these do not explain the creation of the universe, and they're not supposed to, this is simply reconstructing the creation of earth and everything in it.

The God of the universe is another story altogether, one I'm certain you wont find in this world.

Hope this might give you another perspective on how you see the creation of man. Thanks for the topic.