Jewish 'modesty patrols' sow fear in Israel

Jewish 'modesty patrols' sow fear in Israel

news.yahoo.com

JERUSALEM - In Israel's ultra-Orthodox Jewish community, where the rule of law sometimes takes a back seat to the rule of God, zealots are on a campaign to stamp out behavior they consider unchaste. They hurl stones at women for such "sins" as wearing a red blouse, and attack stores selling devices that can access the Internet.

In recent weeks, self-styled "modesty patrols" have been accused of breaking into the apartment of a Jerusalem woman and beating her for allegedly consorting with men. They have torched a store that sells MP4 players, fearing devout Jews would use them to download pornography.

(visit the link for the full news article)

This sounds alot like the Taliban no? It just goes to show you that extremism is not just regelated to Islam but is seen everywhere. Even here in the United States, there is a core element of extremist one way or the other. Moderation is the key

"The middle of the road is all of the usable surface. The extremes, right and left, are in the gutters."
Dwight D. Eisenhower



news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

How the hell is their thinking any different from extremist muslims?

Originally posted by FredT

zealots are on a campaign to stamp out behavior they consider unchaste. They hurl stones at women for such "sins" as wearing a red blouse, and attack stores selling devices that can access the Internet.

In recent weeks, self-styled "modesty patrols" have been accused of breaking into the apartment of a Jerusalem woman and beating her for allegedly consorting with men. They have torched a store that sells MP4 players, fearing devout Jews would use them to download pornography.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Thats like something out of Afghanistan when they were under Taliban rule.





[edit on 4-10-2008 by ben420]

Jewish 'modesty patrols' sow fear in Israel

A TINY exaggeration. I fail to see fear on the streets. Even in the neighborhoods that have this problem.
Now those guys are of course real, there are dozens of them - active ones, more in silent support groups. Police is taking care of that, but it is hard - ultra-religious groups are not that open to Israeli official representatives. The case described is serious one, but sadly not the first. Once again, it still happens very very rarely.
As you said - there are extremists/fanatics in any social group. And in any social group those people should be stopped, or at least contained.
Still, "sow fear in Israel" - is very funny. In my personal list of fear-inducing scenarios (and my country is rich with those) - it is somewhere near the bottom. And i live in Jerusalem - what this not-interested-in-exaggerated-headlines journalist will probably name as one of the "strongholds" of these guys.

Originally posted by FredT


This sounds alot like the Taliban no?

Yes, it's hard to disagree.

There's much I don't like about living in the modern 21st century but I don't relish the idea of other people trying to turn it back a couple of hundred years.

What's their hurry? Between the economy, elitist power grabs and change in climate it's going to be like living in the middle-ages soon anyway.

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge

Jewish 'modesty patrols' sow fear in Israel

A TINY exaggeration. I fail to see fear on the streets. Even in the neighborhoods that have this problem.
Now those guys are of course real, there are dozens of them - active ones, more in silent support groups. Police is taking care of that, but it is hard - ultra-religious groups are not that open to Israeli official representatives. The case described is serious one, but sadly not the first. Once again, it still happens very very rarely.
As you said - there are extremists/fanatics in any social group. And in any social group those people should be stopped, or at least contained.
Still, "sow fear in Israel" - is very funny. In my personal list of fear-inducing scenarios (and my country is rich with those) - it is somewhere near the bottom. And i live in Jerusalem - what this not-interested-in-exaggerated-headlines journalist will probably name as one of the "strongholds" of these guys.

I think you will find that amongst the ultra-orthodox communities there is genuine fear of these people-they tend to keep things in the group, and they are usually endorsed and supported by the leaders (ie Hasidic Rebbes),-therefore going to the 'authorities' will have you an outcast in no time.
Yes, to secular Jews they are no issue at all, to teen girls in the Hasidic communities, they are a cause of real constant fear.

[edit on 4-10-2008 by Rinorino2]

reply to post by Rinorino2


Well, point taken. Then i simply fail to understand why those people that are threatened do not cooperate very well with police? I heard not once prominent and influencing rabbies stating that this is wrong. So surely they will support members of their community that will try to defend themself with help of officials?

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


Zero as is the custom I used the headline as it appeared from the news source which in this case is the AP.

The message I was trying to make is that extremism takes root everywhere and no matter where it is its bad.

In regards to going to the police, if its a small community the local police may be just as radical as these people, or scared themselves to put a stop to it.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


They know of no life outside their communities, and have been raised to see the outside world as totally alien, they avoid doing things that might compromise their acceptance in their communites-as an Israeli would avoid doing things that might compromise their acceptance in wider society.

reply to post by FredT


I was not attacking you on the "sow fear" issue. As

what this not-interested-in-exaggerated-headlines journalist will probably name as one of the "strongholds" of these guys

this shameless self-quoting proves. Unless of course you are that journalist.
On the issue of police involvement - i think that Rhinorino2 described it very well, so i agree that my initial position was a little arrogant/ ignorant. A shame that it happens in my country. I can only hope that while police will struggle with their job, those communities will also get closer to general Israeli public.

The only way the closed communities could be close to the general public would be to have a comman threat or goal to unite them. Right now, they perceive the general public as a threat to their spiritual goals and that it is their duty to God to correct that.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

Now those guys are of course real, there are dozens of them - active ones, more in silent support groups. Police is taking care of that, but it is hard - ultra-religious groups are not that open to Israeli official representatives. The case described is serious one, but sadly not the first. Once again, it still happens very very rarely.

The fact that it happens at all is enough.
As the old saying goes,'this could just be the tip of the iceberg.'

This is the ugly truth of the Jewish Civil War that everybody sees and
nobody acknowledges. The Chereidi have gone on a Imperialistic war of
conquest to eliminate all other sects of Judaism. It's only a matter
of time until guns and bombs are used, since normal people seem
incredibly slow in waking up to the danger. They have rationalized the
maiming of their brethren of other sects, rationalizing their death is
not far behind.

www.jewcy.com...




And,its not a recent thing either.

Morning Edition, February 12, 2007...A group of Israeli women are fighting back against what one called "Taliban-like" Jewish fundamentalists who order women to sit in the back of the bus and to abstain from wearing "immodest" clothing on public bus lines. The women have filed a lawsuit in Israel's high court aimed at reforming bus lines used primarily by ultra-Orthodox Jews. Some of the women see the bus dispute as part of a larger struggle against the growing influence and radicalization of the ultra-Orthodox in Israel.

www.npr.org...

Fox News - December 20, 2006...A 50-year-old American-Israeli woman says she was viciously attacked by an ad-hoc "modesty patrol" because she refused to go to the back of a bus in Jerusalem. Miriam Shear tells the Israeli newspaper Haaretz that she was in Israel on vacation and riding a bus to the old city to pray at sunrise. Jerusalem does have some sex-segregated buses, but she was not on one. Yet a man demanded she give up her seat — and when she refused — a group of four attacked her.

theawarenesscenter.org...

reply to post by jakyll

The fact that it happens at all is enough.

So am i to assume that there is a head-cutting-off tradition on Canadian buses?
You know, it did happen. It is enough then.
I do agree that my original position can be too optimistic since i am not in the "threatened" sector, but i see no justification to make it into something it is not. War between different religious groups using bombs and other stuff - hehehe. The situation of silent conflict between different Jewish groups exists at least for centuries. No knifes/bombs/guns. No Jewish civil war exists. I think that fall of second temple story is a good example for any side.
Haredi sector can outgrow everybody else by natural means,without any violence anyway.

So am i to assume that there is a head-cutting-off tradition on Canadian buses?

Am i meant to take that seriously??

You think an organized religion can be compared to a lone lunatic??


As you said,its easy to be optimistic when you live in a safe area.
It can also make you blind.
If you don't see it first hand then it can't possibly be true.

The situation of silent conflict between different Jewish groups exists at least for centuries.

Not always so silent.I'm sure you've heard of the Maccabaean Revolt.

No Jewish civil war exists.

Not yet.But you can just make it out on the horizon.

I can't help but notice that bullies always pick on those weaker than themselves. In most cases, this happens to be women and children. The radical Muslims really concentrate on women (such as; dress, behavior and hierarchal order) and rank them lower than a dog. In the United States, the Mormans and many of the Pentecostal churches rank women as lower than the men (such as; they can't speak in church except in certain situations, the men can dictate their dress and behavior and as in the case of the Mormans; they tell them who they can or can't marry). Now in the Orthodox Jewish community that same ugly spirit raises its Hydra head.

Do you realize who Lucifer/Satan went after in the garden of Eden? The woman. In my estimation, the woman must be very important for the enemy of all mankind to target her then and to target her now.

In my spiritual beliefs (I am a Christian) I have found by reading the King James Holy Bible that Jesus Christ (who was a rabbi to many) spoke to women in public (a no-no to the strict adherents of Judaism), included them in his ministry (see Luke 8:1-3) and respected them enough to recognize them as important in the kingdom of God. Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Susanna and many others helped support Jesus and his disciples out of their own means.

This focused hatred fed by religious fervor has proven in the past to be destructive and so it is today. When when we learn the lesson that hate is of our enemy, Satan, and love is of God?

I meant: When WILL we learn the lesson that hate is of our enemy, Satan, and love is of God?

AS i have said many times in the past , there are fanatics and zealots everywhere - and its those small groups which cast a taint on everyone else - the decapitations by extreme muslims to the bible burning (and now this) by extremist jews;

but how many times does the MSM report all the good things christians , muslims and jews do? they don`t unless its a real slow news day - but when we have stoning (notice the correlation to muslim extremists there as well) of unchaste women then its headline news.


there is a rot in the world - the extremists are gaining support - especially with such succesful foreign policy as a certain country has

reply to post by jakyll


Look at your own examples. One is from 2006! These criminal acts on religious ground happen very rarely. Can you find 4 cases that made it in the news in last year? And third of Jewish Israeli population is religious. Not ultra-orthodox of course - but since you describe religion as a whole then it is valid.
As for Maccabees revolt - it happened more then 2000 years ago. England had civil war several hundred years ago - will you also use it as an example of a possibility of civil war in England now? I mean monarchy is still there, some people do not like it - as i witnessed on this board.
The tension between different religious/secular groups exists in Israel or in Judaism in general. As in other country, as in other religion. In US there are closed religious communities too, and there is tension between those and government/other US citizens. There were violent clashes too. And?
I can ensure you (i hope it does not disappoint you) that there is no civil war,or even hint of civil war. At least as long as there are mutual enemies. And this is going to exist for a long time.

This has been going on since like the begining this isnt even new.
I had a friend that was a girl that grew up there, shes told me over the years things like "You dont walk alone if youre a girl without other girls or your parents". You dont hang around a guy if youre not married etc...

Something along those lines anyhow. Its nothing new though. I dont agree with stoning people but I prefer their society to the Paris Hiltons of ours the "USA". I just dont find women that sleep with multiple people attractive.

Their culture is being influenced by ours, and not to long ago they WERE throwing stones. This is what happens when you give technology to a more primitive society that did not invent it. Islam has the same thing happening in parts of their countries. They had sand and camels and then we went over their for oil and made them rich.

They have a lot of matureing to do then you hear people flat out target the abuse done to women only and nothing about the poverty, childen dying and men starving. Its a direct social attack on the american women because theyll raise their kids to hate Islam etc... Just more fodder for the oil wars.

Originally posted by Memysabu
This has been going on since like the begining this isnt even new.
I had a friend that was a girl that grew up there, shes told me over the years things like "You dont walk alone if youre a girl without other girls or your parents". You dont hang around a guy if youre not married etc...

Something along those lines anyhow. Its nothing new though. I dont agree with stoning people but I prefer their society to the Paris Hiltons of ours the "USA". I just dont find women that sleep with multiple people attractive.

Their culture is being influenced by ours, and not to long ago they WERE throwing stones. This is what happens when you give technology to a more primitive society that did not invent it. Islam has the same thing happening in parts of their countries. They had sand and camels and then we went over their for oil and made them rich.

They have a lot of matureing to do then you hear people flat out target the abuse done to women only and nothing about the poverty, childen dying and men starving. Its a direct social attack on the american women because theyll raise their kids to hate Islam etc... Just more fodder for the oil wars.

erm yeah - we are talking about Israel not other `oil rich backwards countries`


unless you think israel is a backwards country that needs maturing??