china to expose americas moon walk

Originally posted by Zaphod58
The moon has an atmosphere too. It's very thin, but it's capable of keeping dust on the ground. If there was no atmosphere up there then you wouldn't see dust or anything else on the ground.

Tahts right even rocks would be just floating ... UP

Hmm... something just got me.

Let's see..

1) The gravity on the moon is 1/6 of earth.

2) The Moon Lander landed and blast off with a single rocket assisted thrust. (If I am not wrong). How can they even balance.

3) Fine dust exist on the surface.

Having been in the construction industry for more than a decade, tells me the dust would be suspended in the thin atmosphere with low gravity. It would take days if not weeks for it to settle. Then it would have covered everything. The Rover and space walk would also kick up dust easily with every step. The rover would bring up a haze storm for every meter it travels. wouldn't it. I didn't even see this in all the video that I see. Every step the Astronaut took as if they are walking on sand.

Enlighten me.. please

reply to post by mullet35


Another thing, just because the "wind" may be 300Km/h, doesn't mean it will blow you over.

The dust storms on Mars kick up a fair old rate of knots, but you could stand in the middle of a tornado on Mars and not even get blown over.

It's all down to density, you see. In this case, atmospheric density. The wind may be 300Km/h, but if that wind is only 1/100th or even 1/1000th the density of Earth air, then it's not going to have that much of an effect, is it?

Originally posted by mobydog
Hmm... something just got me.

Let's see..

1) The gravity on the moon is 1/6 of earth.

2) The Moon Lander landed and blast off with a single rocket assisted thrust. (If I am not wrong). How can they even balance.

3) Fine dust exist on the surface.

Having been in the construction industry for more than a decade, tells me the dust would be suspended in the thin atmosphere with low gravity. It would take days if not weeks for it to settle. Then it would have covered everything. The Rover and space walk would also kick up dust easily with every step. The rover would bring up a haze storm for every meter it travels. wouldn't it. I didn't even see this in all the video that I see. Every step the Astronaut took as if they are walking on sand.

Enlighten me.. please

1) Yes, it is.

2) The RCS on the ascent module produced 3,500 lbs of thrust, providing a thrust to weight ratio of 2.06:1. The ascent module carried about 5 minutes worth of fuel. More than enough to reach lunar orbit.

3) Yes, it does.

Having been in the construction industry for more than 2 decades, I know that comparing what happens to dust on Earth with what happens to dust on the Moon makes no sense. The "atmosphere" of the moon is so thin it's ridiculous to call it an atmosphere except in a purely technical sense.

Although it is commonly understood that the moon has no atmosphere, it does in fact have an extremely tenuous one made up of captured solar wind molocules and out-gassings from radioactive lunar rock. The atmosphere is so thin, that if it were compressed to the same temperature and density as the earth’s, it would fit into a 210 foot cube.

Souce

As you say, if there were air on the moon the lunar dust would have been floating all over the place. It wasn't because there is not really any air to speak of, just a few molecules floating around.

[edit on 4-10-2008 by Phage]

reply to post by Phage


Watch the rovr footage. It is so clear that there is an atmosphere interacting with the dust kicked up. Aside from that, the dust does not go any higher than it would in our own gravity. At 1/6 gravity it should have gone at least 30 feet in the air and come back down in a perfect arc. Instead it goes up a feet feet and then hangs, and spreads out before settling.

Originally posted by MorningStar8741
reply to post by Phage

 

Watch the rovr footage. It is so clear that there is an atmosphere interacting with the dust kicked up. Aside from that, the dust does not go any higher than it would in our own gravity. At 1/6 gravity it should have gone at least 30 feet in the air and come back down in a perfect arc. Instead it goes up a feet feet and then hangs, and spreads out before settling.

Oh, I've watched it. Over and over and over again.

Why should it have gone 30 feet in the air? Can you prove it? Can you show me some calculations of the velocity and mass of the dust as it's leaving the wheels? It's really a simple ballistics problem.

The dust does not hang and spread. It begins spreading from the moment it leaves the wheels. The dust leaves the wheels, slows down as it gets higher, then accelerates as it descends, just like it should.

Edit to add this:



Notice with the dune buggies.

1. The sand does not really get very high at all
   
2. In spite of the sand (and dust) not getting very high, it lingers in the air for a good distance behind the buggy.
   

Compare it to the moon buggy:

1. The dust does get quite a bit higher behind the moon buggy than the dune buggy.
   
2. The dust just kind of flops back to the surface instead of hanging around behind the vehicle.
   

This of course proves nothing. Just kind of interesting I thought.

[edit on 4-10-2008 by Phage]

Hi.

Considering half the people on this site believe that China's space walk took place "underwater",i think they should tread carefully in regard to other nations space achievements!

reply to post by Merriman Weir

OK here, I will start one with the first thing that poped into my mind when I read that China is going to the moon.

The PTB have crowned China as the new power on this earth.

They are almost finished stripping the US of its resources they will leave the USA to its own demise.

lol

Anyway, I guess that statement is very revealing concerning my frame of mind in regards to the United States of America.

I have had a lump in my throat ever since the vote on friday....so this China/moon things urks me.

ARE THEY going to use the TAX dollars of hard working Americans to fund this trip to the moon?!?!

Is not China one of the nations demanding that the bill went through on Friday.




Good thread. flaged

[edit on 4-10-2008 by whiteraven]

You know, until just recently the only moon landing denier I ever met was a then (35 years ago ) 80 year old mexican man, who lived most of his life in a remote mountain village. He also believed that a camera was stealing your soul.
He had an excuse, he basically came from the 18th century to the 20th when he came to the US in the sixties
So whats you alls excuse, come on people, they brought rock back!
Rocks that have been studied by literally hundresds of people by now.

And what about the tens of thousands of skilled craftsmen that made wonderous peices of machinery, my uncle and his co workers being some of those people. My uncle was a shop foreman in the machine shop of the company that made the heat sheilds for the apollo missions.
So they just spent hundreds of thousands of man hrs making nothing from extremely exotic metals.
Or did NASA just spend billions of dollars throwing things into the sky.
Come on people wake up.
The arguments against the moon landings are rediculous in the face of the facts.
So the 13 saturn V launches were just dressup?, Billions of dollars of extremely expensive hardware was just a movie prop.
Thousands of people watched the launches in person.
Amatuer radio buffs would listen in as the spacecraft passed over head, how'd they fake that.

And yes the lunar module and the command module and service module look flimsy and unsafe, because they were flimsy and unsafe.

The structure of the vehicles is extremely light weight.
The lunar module, minus fuel, only weighs about 4400 lb. Thats a 2 story tall structure and it weighs less than a car.

And the lunar rover only weighed 400 lbs.

come on people the USA went to the moon. They left stuff on the surface! Is it really that hard to grasp? If you throw enough money at something and have alittle luck anything is possible.

Going to the moon is mankinds greatest achievement stop belittling it because YOU cant grasp it.

If China goes to the moon that is great! its another step to human development. I support thier efforts 100 percent!

Originally posted by whiteraven

ARE THEY going to use the TAX dollars of hard working Americans to fund this trip to the moon?!?!

Well, to be fair, I seem to remember a lot of Americans having problems with America using the TAX dollars of hard working Americans to fund a space programme.

Is not China one of the nations demanding that the bill went through on Friday.

Firstly, China's economy has been doing fairly well since the 1970s so it's not unreasonable to think they could have done this on their own at some point.

Secondly, even if they are going to the moon using 'new' money, to be blunt, if China has bought up American debts and are owed the money, they can do what the hell they like with that money when they've called it. If they want to go to the moon wearing cowboy hats with 'thank you, America!' written across the front and plastic steer horns on the front of the lunar module then you're just going to have to get used to it.

reply to post by Phage


i believe sand is not an appropriate example to compare the behviour of lunar dust to the behaviour of earthly dust.

the dust on the moon is fine , as fine as volcanic ash that is easily disturbed and fills up the atmosphere of earth for months after volcanic erruptions before it descends and re settles on earth.

in contrast sand is heavy and large,it doesnt really get airborn comparable to lunar dust.

dust as fine as lunar dust even on earth would take to the air quite easily,if the buggy you showed were racing upon lunar dust on earth it would leave a noticeable plume.
l
thus sand and lunar dust will not show comparable physical behaviour within atmospheric and gravitational behaviour.

reply to post by mullet35



Umm...the moon does have gravity there, Professor Sagan.

I log on to ATS most days expecting to read something stupid.

Mission accomplished.

reply to post by mullet35


the moon has 1/6th the earth's gravity, not no gravity. also, the cable show "mythbusters", on the discovery channel, debunked all the so-called evidense that the moon landing was faked.

Originally posted by welivefortheson
reply to post by Phage

 

i believe sand is not an appropriate example to compare the behviour of lunar dust to the behaviour of earthly dust.

Exactly.

If the moon buggy video was faked. The dust would stay suspended in the air. There is no air to keep it suspended, it flops to the ground. Therefore the moon footage is not faked.

There, that was easy, wasn't it?

Adding the links to 'What Really Happened on the Moon' because it is not easy to find..

video.google.com...

video.google.com...

reply to post by Phage


You insist on seeing what you want to see. That is clear. If you cannot see the way the dust hits an atmosphere in the rover footage, I certainly cannot help you see it. There is nothing more I can do. You have access to the footage. We disagree. I see things that were captured on film. You see things that fit your idea of what happend. Oh well.

reply to post by punkinworks


Yeah, I mean why would anyone spend all that money and have that many people work on something just for what???

Gosh I wonder just what showing technological supremecy did to political policy at that time. How might that effect the cold war and what would that be worth? Faking the NASA mission and having your Uncle work on part of a heat shield seems a pittance compared to world war 3 or falling on bended knee to the red manace.

Originally posted by Phage

Originally posted by welivefortheson
reply to post by Phage

 

i believe sand is not an appropriate example to compare the behviour of lunar dust to the behaviour of earthly dust.

Exactly.

If the moon buggy video was faked. The dust would stay suspended in the air. There is no air to keep it suspended, it flops to the ground. Therefore the moon footage is not faked.

There, that was easy, wasn't it?

I think I need to see the moon rover footage you have been looking at now. Flops back to the ground?????

That is not an accurate description in any case on any film of either the moon rover or your dune buggy. I need to see this dust that just flops back down to the ground. It should travel in a perfact arc. The arc would grow wider and wider with distance due to the differing angles at which each dust particle is shot off the tire. That is not what I get when I watch the moon rover. I see a rooster tail. I am not the only one. Perhaps you should watch at least one of the films I suggested and get back to me because I am seriously starting to doubt that anything can really be taken seriously by someone who sees moon dusts flopping around.