Zeitgeist Addendum Released

Originally posted by matchless
How do you guys maintain your sanity, while at the same time retaining integrity in what you do and sticking it to the man?

Thank you for sharing your story with us, matchless.

I understand how easy it is to sink into that sense of powerlessness. But understand that every time you suggest a way of doing things to any who have never considered doing things that way, you are helping.

You are Consciousness experiencing life through the vehicle you have, from that perspective. The key is to never give in to fear.

My choice was to speak out boldly. I suspect that if They think too many are hearing my words, they will come after me. But I also understand that They cannot kill me. Only alter my ability to interact directly. So I am fearless. I take each moment as an opportunity to bring the truth out - sometimes in grand postings, sometimes in small words to friends.

But I never doubt the contribution I make. And I always believe that it just might be my humble contribution that pushes thing to the tipping point.

Best of success in finding YOUR best path.

Originally posted by Secret Master
Well quite simply, they could be telling us what we want to hear, knowing that the world is so desperate for an answer, that we will accept anything that denounces the current regime and system it supports. And yes, the regime supports the system, not the other way around.

I can assure you that I am not "jumping on the bandwagon," as it were, relative to the Venus Project, merely because it looks different from what we have now. I do so because I saw basically the same thing decades ago, but took a very long time crystallizing it into a cohesive form (and then I wrote a story), and now, with ZA and the Venus Project introducing it, I have those who will discuss it.

And I can assure you that it is NOT "just something we want to hear." I understand how it can work, and more importantly, I can see the...zeitgeist of such a paradigm. I can place myself into such a structure and watch how it and I function. I can be most any *I* I want to be and see how that *I* behaves and feels.

The PTB will be powers no more.

If the movement and the venus project produce tangible results, then we can re-evaluate it and take it on it's own merits. untill then, every word and action of both the movement and the project should fall under the same carefull scrutiny that we give the government..

Or... Better yet, just do it. Sitting and watching gets nothing done. If you're at all inclined to tinker with electronics and robotics... Create, create, create. My job, it would seem, since I have no aptitude nor even grasp of robotics, is to open eyes to what it would mean for humanity.

Deny ignorance, and God bless

And deny inaction.

You seem to have missed my point, which is...

WE DONT KNOW THESE PEOPLE!!

If some shmuck off the street just came up to you and started pitching the venus project, you'd probably just walk right past him. but put it in a movie, release it on the net, and suddenly you have a movement.

I can tell you all sorts of wonderfull things, i can present charts and graphs and tell you how we're gonna change the world.

But you dont know me, you dont know if i am a liar, or a conman, or a thief, and once you buy into the project, i could walk off with your money never to be heard from again... you dont me from squat, and you dont know them from squat.

I am not saying that we dont need a change, i am not saying that the venus project is a bunch of crooks... i am saying, we dont know these people, we only know what they tell us of themselves, they could very well be honorable people, they could be just another scam.

but the Zeitgeist movie, while informative and insightful, is also a propoganda film and a commercial for the project. and there are people who will believe in it so blindly that they will gladly give everything of themselves to it... what happens if i am right and all those who fell for it are left with nothing?

Again, support the ideals, not the organization.

Originally posted by Secret Master
You seem to have missed my point, which is...

WE DONT KNOW THESE PEOPLE!!

I don't need to know the 90+ year old man presenting a concept I have pondered for decades to know what he is suggesting IS an answer.

If some shmuck off the street just came up to you and started pitching the venus project, you'd probably just walk right past him. but put it in a movie, release it on the net, and suddenly you have a movement.

You aren't in a position to determine what I would do, actually, and I usually allow people their say, ask question, point out issues, and so on. And if some "schmuck" gave me the same picture that guy at the Venus Project gave, I would NOT walk right past. I would get very excited!

I can tell you all sorts of wonderfull things, i can present charts and graphs and tell you how we're gonna change the world.

Have you read anything I have posted here? I'm guessing not. I think in the reading of it you will understand that throwing a spiel at me isn't going to make it with me, and also you just might pick up some of the vision. You will understand that, indeed, I know the place he wants to go to, as I have been there many times myself.

But you dont know me, you dont know if i am a liar, or a conman, or a thief, and once you buy into the project, i could walk off with your money never to be heard from again... you dont me from squat, and you dont know them from squat.

I'm not investing MONEY, darling. I have none to invest (unless you count the $30 I just made cleaning a lady's windows). And it is because I have seen this now for a very long time and have yearned to be there that I embrace the ideas. I know they work. And I am prepared to fend off any objection raised (as I have done so here). I know the answers because I have seen the answers.

I am not saying that we dont need a change, i am not saying that the venus project is a bunch of crooks... i am saying, we dont know these people, we only know what they tell us of themselves, they could very well be honorable people, they could be just another scam.

But you don't need to give them anything. Awareness and action towards the end are what are needed. NOT funding one organization. I know that the IDEAS they have are not a "scam." Whether that particular organization is... Highly doubtful, but I'll give it a 2% likelihood of being so.

but the Zeitgeist movie, while informative and insightful, is also a propoganda film and a commercial for the project.

Interesting. I saw it more as an offering of a viable solution, a raising of awareness, but not a commercial or propaganda.

and there are people who will believe in it so blindly that they will gladly give everything of themselves to it... what happens if i am right and all those who fell for it are left with nothing?

Since I know the IDEA will work, I have to ask... WHAT IF you're wrong? FEMA camps for all?

Again, support the ideals, not the organization.

I support both the ideals and the ideas. I would research more before supporting the specific organization. I might even seek to work with them - if I had a means of transporting m'self there.

I grasp your concern, but really, it is not the Venus Project, per se, that I exuberantly support, but the social system presented. Because it is AWESOME.

Seriously, go back 10 pages and read my posts.

Then clearly you were never the person that my initial posts were directed at. My concern is solely (And i thought clearly) for those people who will look at the movie and take it way out of proportion. Who will blindly follow any path that leads them away from this broken system we live by today.

Because there are people who will do so. Again, i feel the movie made many valid points, but it still stinks of propoganda. and by that i mean a message in media that denounces one subject while trying to sway you to another. The movie has an agenda, an ulterior motive, it wants something of us.

And so my message is simply one of carefull scrutiny. let us give it an honest look, but let us do so objectively.

That is after all what we do here, is it not?

Originally posted by Secret Master
Then clearly you were never the person that my initial posts were directed at. My concern is solely (And i thought clearly) for those people who will look at the movie and take it way out of proportion. Who will blindly follow any path that leads them away from this broken system we live by today.

Well, frankly, if THIS is the direction they choose...blindly or not...it is an excellent choice (well, 2% says the Venus Project itself is not a good investment of time and money, but still, anything to move us towards an abundance paradigm).

Because there are people who will do so. Again, i feel the movie made many valid points, but it still stinks of propoganda. and by that i mean a message in media that denounces one subject while trying to sway you to another. The movie has an agenda, an ulterior motive, it wants something of us.

Hmmm. What's the difference between seeing a better way for ALL and dearly wanting to focus attention in that direction, doing so in media - and seeing a way for oneself to profit in one way or another and wanting to focus attention just so that the profit is achieved?

Are they both "propaganda?" Because the first is what Zeitgeist Addendum is about. Most propaganda is of the latter ilk.

Unless I am missing something. You say there is an agenda. What is it, in your view? You say there is an ulterior motive. What is it, in your view? You say it wants something of us. What is it, in your view?

Hi,

WHen I saw the price tags on venus project i was kinda let down, but then i started to think that the main objective is to focus on a goal (the 6 steps toward social revolution) and provide something in theory for us to DEBATE.

I´ve read a lot of testimonials stating that there are communities doing EXACLY what ZG:A proposes (get off the grid, produce your won food, quit military and so on).

Thus, i think in the near future we will have multiple venus-project-clone (just like linux!) and exchanging ideas AND REAL WORLD PRACTICES that are working and those who are not.

Thing is (as I stated in other thread) - the first 'neo venus' ventures will be of lovers and passionist... thats great but also kills any momentum... let me explain - if we CANT bring avg Joe, the whole thing is not working.

How someone with health insurance will enter a no money society?
What if you get sick?
Once yoou draw the line and get 'lost', how to acchieve minerals and materials to build anything?
If you dont have a factory, you cant produce a light bulb...

I proposed some hybrid things, like:

1) Start with the most fundamental: energy (solar) with good molten salt storage
2) Start also with trash processing (from local towns) for biogas, and keep your energy storage running for night and when it rains;
3) Get hydroponic vegetables, with no soil requeirement and pesticides (this is crucial, because you can always thrash and produce biogas to keep energy storage on...
4) get a volunteer teching hospital - withou this, there is NOTHING, no
society!
5) get housing and food distribution, and start volutnteering...


This is as far my imagination goes...
Remenber, emergent solutions....

IF we could build linux systems, we can build and develop micro-societies..

Then

One micro gets connected to other..

you see my point?


See you at the movement!

Originally posted by RobertPaulsim
How someone with health insurance will enter a no money society?
What if you get sick?

In a global resource-driven economy, this will not be an issue. Between robots and those whose bliss it is to tend to, and cure, others, if you get sick you just go to the hospital and will be taken care of.

In limited pockets of what amounts to half-assed attempts there is a greater issue. I have been trying to see the steps to a global system, and I think if all have the final vision in mind, it will be moved in that direction. As to how it would work in each pocket depends on what is available there.

Once yoou draw the line and get 'lost', how to acchieve minerals and materials to build anything?

I would best like this if no lines were drawn. Just many world-wide developing and offering the tech needed to remove any NEED to work. Maintain contact over the internet, perhaps. In pockets, withdrawn from each other, one would have a hard time ensuring that all pockets had what they needed to actually function, and the overall zeitgeist of the globe would see little change.

With great effort to focus minds on this goal, it will fall more and more into place, but the network must be global.

If you dont have a factory, you cant produce a light bulb...

Again, this is an issue of isolation, and for this to function properly, it must be global.

I proposed some hybrid things, like:

1) Start with the most fundamental: energy (solar) with good molten salt storage
2) Start also with trash processing (from local towns) for biogas, and keep your energy storage running for night and when it rains;
3) Get hydroponic vegetables, with no soil requeirement and pesticides (this is crucial, because you can always thrash and produce biogas to keep energy storage on...
4) get a volunteer teching hospital - withou this, there is NOTHING, no
society!
5) get housing and food distribution, and start volutnteering...

I like your suggestions - all except the hydroponics. Mainly because hydroponically grown foods have been shown to have far lower food values. There is something about growing food in symbiosis with the bioorganisms in a good soil. They are also good, the bioorganisms, in aiding digestion and other health maintenance.

If we become a network overlaying the wretched money system, somehow work in that format, we will evenually - and bloodlessly - take over.

This is as far my imagination goes...

It went pretty far! Thank you for creative thought on the matter.

[edit on 10/15/2008 by Amaterasu]

Propoganda is propoganda regardless of the motives. they use scare tactics to further terrify you of the government, while pushing "But we have an alternative"

Now we all have good reason to be afraid of our governments, regardless of which government is yours.

But to present material, truthfull or not, in a matter designed to frighten the veiwer, is a scare tactic. Any movie using scare tactics to push it's message and agenda is a propoganda film. it's just that simple.

And this movie and the movement/project does have an agenda, and it DOES want something from us.

It wants us to join them, and it expects us to pay to join them.

What else need i say? just this...

Support the ideals, not the movement!

Originally posted by Secret Master
Propoganda is propoganda regardless of the motives. they use scare tactics to further terrify you of the government, while pushing "But we have an alternative"

Propaganda is propaganda, but there is a difference between propaganda and earnest concern. But I went over this.

You say "scare tactics," which I might also think can be called "fear mongering," n'est pas?

From another thread, I will give you something that was posted and my reply (sorry I don't have the actual source of this definition - the original poster did not supply it):

Fear mongering (or scaremongering) is the use of fear to leverage the opinions and actions of others towards some end. The object of fear is sometimes exaggerated, and the use of fear mongering is often directed in a manner using repetition

and I said, in part:

"I disagree with the above description. I would take out the word "sometimes" and put in "always."

"Here's why:

"If we're all sitting in a theatre, and I notice flames licking at the curtains...am I fear mongering to yell as loudly as I might, "FIRE?"

"And if my voice does not carry to the balcony, am I fear mongering to stand up and turn to them and repeat, "FIRE?"

"I say that is not fear mongering. That is fair warning.

"Now if I wanted to watch the show alone, and I saw some of the vapor from some dry ice and yelled "FIRE," repeating it for the balcony, THAT would be fear mongering."

So we have to ask if this was truth they offered or exaggeration of the truth. If it was truth - and I say it was fully that - then it is fair warning.

So here we have the truth, and an idea for a solution. I saw no "pushing" going on. Just suggesting. Perhaps you can pinpoint where the pushing was.

Now we all have good reason to be afraid of our governments, regardless of which government is yours.

But to present material, truthfull or not, in a matter designed to frighten the veiwer, is a scare tactic. Any movie using scare tactics to push it's message and agenda is a propoganda film. it's just that simple.

And if one SHOULD BE SCARED? Very, VERY scared? How do you go about telling someone of something that, if they don't get out of the way, they NEED to be very, VERY scared...without "designing" it to motivate them?

"Gee, Frank, you might want to give some thought to the option of stepping out of the road."

""Why's that, Jake?"

"Well, it is conceivable that the truck - which, though it looks like it is barreling down on you at a very high speed to me, might not appear to be doing so to you - that truck has some probability of..."

*SMACK*

"Oh, never mind, Frank. Guess it was coming at a high rate of speed."

And this movie and the movement/project does have an agenda, and it DOES want something from us.

It wants us to join them, and it expects us to pay to join them.

I am a part of the movement... Haven't paid anyone a dime. No one said I had to pay to promote the vision. And *I* want people to join. Not because I "have an agenda," but because I know it will be a million-fold better for the average Jo(e) if this were implemented.

Wanting someone to join something for the betterment of ALL hardly seems like an agenda.

What else need i say? just this...

Support the ideals, not the movement!

Um... Isn't the movement about supporting the ideals? Isn't that what it's all about??? I count myself part of it BECAUSE I support the ideals.

The ideals of freedom, abundance, classlessness, bliss.

Once one chooses to support the ideals, one IS PART OF the movement.

[edit on 10/15/2008 by Amaterasu]

Just a friendly warning: the Zeitgeist movies are camouflage for New Age promotion. The new movie even presents the Venus Project in its second half -

Venus = Morning star = Lucifer = basis for NWO

Bread crumbles for ya:

Venus
Lucifer aka Venus

Lucis trust which is a NGO in the UN:
Lucis trust (orginally named "Lucifers Publishing company")
Founded by Alice and Foster Bailey, supported by people like D. Rockefeller and several others in that league.

Lucis Trust also run the meditation room in the UN:

UN Meditation room
Millennium Peace Summit
U.N. plans to bring together 1,000 world religious leaders

ok, get the drift? Sorry, this is what New Age is all about.




[edit on 5-11-2008 by MaverickTheWise]

I saw this movie on a satellite video channel while on vacation in Mexico. It is well worth watching.

I believe that in 2012 we will see (War in Israel) the end of the worldwide fiat money based system that only provides for the few and humanity will transition to a better system of technology and unlimited resources that will allow us to take care of all humanity, god willing.

The other option is the complete annihilation of the entire human race.

[edit on 27-12-2008 by In nothing we trust]

reply to post by In nothing we trust


Could link in with the results of the Fision reactor tests, that would definately release people from relunctance on costly energy and would change a hell of a lot of enviromental and foriegn policy issues.

reply to post by MaverickTheWise


This isn't about this one project, and its little rules and regulations and eccentricities. This is an idea, one that everyone needs to hear about, so they cannot be enslaved. You're not truly enslaved when you know how to be free.
In practice, such a thing would take organization, an a grass roots proportional democracy with much public local involvement, but complete transparency, and a willingness to take action whenever needed. This kind of system actually needs to be brought in grass roots, from the bottom up. It wouldn't have a name that carries any association. It would simply be a clean techno version of how the native peoples have always lived.

[edit on 30-12-2008 by mystiq]

Yeah this is where i lost all respect in the guy who made Zeitgiest.
1. He supports the venus project
2. the venus project wants to do away with currency
3. The Venus project wants to do away with all religions because it is a commidity that cant be controlled.
4. The venus project promises a better life for everyone
5. The Venus project needs your money.
So if i got this right. the Zeit films frown on the current state of government because they want to take away your rights and take your money from you (taxes). He bashes on all religions after only going into christianity. Then just says we should give our money to a group out of blind faith for a better life. And do not be fooled people just because the venus people do not have "laws" in their culture does not mean that they would have another name for laws. So if you buy what this movie is selling for you more power to ya. So if you support giving up your money and your religion go for it, but dont turn around and bash another person because they have blind faith in their religion.

watch Future By Design, it was a PBS or Discovery Channel special I think long before this Zeitgeist movie came out, about the Venus Project, and the guy that has made all these models and crazy buildings.

Intro:
Here are a couple of thoughts on the whole issue - I have only read the first 13 pages of the thread at this point…quite intriguing reading the responses to the film.

Competition vs. Collaboration
1) The idea that: “I need to compete” or “Competition is needed”
I understand fully this way of thought, as I was conditioned by the same, capitalist/corporate milieu that influenced you as well.

The issue is simply of a lack of understanding of a better term to replace the word Competition. And in changing the word, to change slightly - but dramatically - how we go about doing things….which will become much more efficient and reflect our original intended goals.

What term do I speak of? Collaboration.

Collaboration seeks to work on each others strengths to move forward, while Competition is isolationist in nature, and counter productive. (I know, we are told competition is needed for innovation…no, its used to control innovation and slowly release product cycles to society. True innovation happens when people like what they are doing and are motivated out of interest…and not out of fear. (i.e., fear of lack, etc.)

This whole fear based society gets what it sows…you focus on what you get, or rather you get what you focus on. You feel scarcity and you get scarcity.
“Bro, my scarcity is real!” - Then do something about it. Is your complaining changing anything? If you can change it, do so…otherwise do you not see your complaining just feeds and fits into the whole cycle of fear?

Paradigm Shift:
2) Many people cannot imagine a resource based society working.
The main reason is because they compare it to the closest, failed, systems that we know. (Though, as pointed out, the American Indians did quite well with their society…and we would have the additional benefit of Technology.)

We need a shift in understanding, and this is difficult as we usually can only imagine what already exist. Typically, humanity cannot go past anything until the 100 monkey syndrome takes place…we lack visionaries. We have to think out of the box to get to the next level.

So…a new way of thinking, a true understanding of the nature of reality is needed.
Not the reality of some N.W.O. government, bent on the enslavement of the world.
But the reality as to who you are, why you think the way you do, and how you can free your own mind…from yourself.

For this, I can only personally recommend listening to Eckhart Tolles Audio book, “A New Earth”. He deals with this concept at the very end…what a new society will look like and function as. But he does something, or rather goes one step further than others…he allows us to understand how to bridge the gap that is currently there.

We cannot go into heaven with the current state of mind we have now.
It is not enough to see what heaven is like…if we went there, surely we would turn it into hell!
Egos replace other egos and thus become the same…if not worse…than what was before.

If we do not understand the ego, then we are bound to repeat history time and again…remaining its slave. Remember, “We wrestle not against flesh and blood.”
Which brings me to…

Religion.
3)
For those die hard Christians out there - Jesus was not identified with labels.
He was not a Christian, he was “I Am that I Am”. He lived in the “Now” or rather, the present moment, detached from its many egoic labels and stories that we feel we must cling and adhere to. (We are chemically addicted in the brain to this…its not an easy feat for true change…you must truly want it. “Seek and you will find when you search with ALL your heart.” For the most part, we are comfortable where we are at…the world events actually push us alone.

Think about the God of the Bible who put all the world rulers in place…the evil guys.
Perhaps it was needed to help push the sheep alone. What an irony, that which we complained against, may be here to help push us into that which we claimed we wanted…but the ego held us back from. And that which was ‘evil’ may help push us into that which is ‘good’. (i.e., you stop suffering when you learn you dont have to suffer. Or you put down the gun when you realize no more people must die…non ever had too of course.)

Making it a Reality:
4) “The Venus Project ask for money and they want a cashless society.”
Yes, this bothers me as well. I saw his drawing lessons on line for sale as well, and I thought, “what an irony.”

Even the best of us are still strongly conditioned and trapped in the realm of dependence on cash.

Let me say this, again, we must think out of the box in all areas - let me give you an example of how this resource based society can start WITHOUT cash:

Note: Keyword - “Resource“.
Time to network and find people with different talents.
Each person sacrifice 10% of their talent to be used and directed into a commonly shared idea for a project which can show the world that a resource based society can work. - Without the stereotype of ‘mountain men in caves’ hiding out from Armageddon flame’

Someone(s) come up with a mini plan that is realistic, and then work with engineers, designers, etc. to bring to life a small scale ‘city’ project. (Even if it would only hold a few families at first.) Here is what you would see:

a) The tremendous possibilities afforded to us by technology…
b) MOST importantly - that the whole project was done for FREE.
It was done giving a minimum sacrifice from each group, to make a common dream come true. What was the motivation? Was it money? It was the ability to use their natural talents/gifts to the maximum in exploration. (And this is what we all desire inside the most…to be all we can be, and to show our stuff. We are more sharing in nature than one would guess - but of course, it would take a true mentality shift as proposed and explained how to by Eckhart Tolle, as an example.)

Your focus.
5)
What do YOU want? What you focus on you get…what else could you get, if you spend no time on looking and working on what you want - but take that time to focus on the complete opposite. (Doesnt it sound messed up…but thats how we live life…focusing on what we dont have, instead of what we want. I can tell you, the Rothchilds, etc. focus on what they want…because they definitely dont have money…its all made up…yet they made ‘richness’ a reality for themselves…ableit it is at the expense of keeping others oppressed.)

In Conclusion:
Many thoughts on all this, but I was excited to find the ZeitGeist Movement website, and the Venus Project.

Not because I believe in them…but I believe in my goals, and will try to find people with similar ideas to try to make this a reality. Im not giving my power over to anyone in this…at any point I could go my own way, and this is what we must remember… not to ‘idolize’ movements, because then it puts it in the realm of all the other failed movements. - Be true to yourself, and you will be true the the world…we are all connected. (Or, as a Christian, Jew, Muslim would say - the same God made us all.)

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 1-1-2009 by dAlen]

Originally posted by YoungStalin
Yeah this is where i lost all respect in the guy who made Zeitgiest.
1. He supports the venus project
3. The Venus project wants to do away with all religions because it is a commidity that cant be controlled.
5. The Venus project needs your money.

On the Q&A it says you can believe what you want as long as it does not infringe on others. I tend to agree with this concept completely...Plus, Jesus wasnt religious and spoke out against religiousity...so people only are clinging to egoic belief systems, the very thing the Bible talks against.

He wants money...we are a conditioned lot...its easy to be stuck in the money paradigm, and not know how to cross that bridge...I mentioned in my own post how to go about actually making a project like this real and getting across the bridge.

I think we must know what we want...what is it that there is in common, and focus on that. What we focus on we can make stronger, and that which do not fit will be weeded out.

But to reject someone or an idea completely because its not 100% understood and agreed on by you, will cause the current conflicts that we know and live with to continue. (i.e. middle east...much more to be said about that.)

So in the end, work toward your goal, and take the light from each corner you find it and work with it. As God said, "Even in Sheol/hell, I am there".

Peace

dAlen

For those living in the UK, this movie is showing now on EMTV (channel 200, I think).

It's a freeview channel.