Originally posted by Wolf321
Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
I think the primary reason it seems like a fantasy is merely because it is so fantastically different then our current system. People have become so
apathetic to our current shape of reality, that anything different simply isn't real.
Yet we do have the tech and the resources to completely change the World! That is a fantasy. A great fantasy. A realistic fantasy.
It is fanatical because it is not anywhere close to being feasible. It would take a couple lifetimes before such a world would be even remotely
possible. We do have lots of great technology out there that could do a lot more good, but not nearly the levels available to come close to the idea
behind the venus project.
A. Much of our tech is suppressed and/or hidden, because it threatens some moneyed interest (like free energy - energy from the plenum; Dark Energy -
threatens oil interests).
B. We are about to infinitely explode tech-wise. The plot of the tech curve - the plotting of technological advances through history - is moving
upward exponentially, and will hit a virtually infinite point in 2012.
Why would it not be FULLY possible to attain this vision is a few years?
Originally posted by Amaterasu
And in a society that has all needs met, what kind of power is available?
There is always going to be someone in an administrative role. Someone will have to determine what 'needs' are provided.
I envision a computer program handling that. Or someone whose bliss is handling such things (or both...). Demand will be the driving factor in
determining the needs. I don't see an issue here. Especially if we develop a replicator, which I see as fully possible because:
A. We have the ability now to transmute one element to another, and I see this as something that could be expanded on (with an infinite tech
explosion, that is something I expect), and;
B. Until that happens, it would not be hard to calculate basic needs and provide for them, and requisitions could be sent to computers that arrange
for delivery of the requested item(s). Initiall we might have to wait some period of time, or go to an outlet much like a store except it stocks
things that you can just take.
One may feel they need more than another to be happy.
First, why would they if they can have all they want and need? Second, if they're bliss is merely to have more than another, hell, they can take
more. But I do not believe that in a world of abundance, anyone would even be thinking about "having more than" another. They would be too busy
traveling the world, or playing a musical instrument, or playing with their children, or working on some problem that fascinates them, or going out to
a club, or painting a picture, or playing a video game, or making a video game, or .....
I think that the ideological world of the venus project is a nice idea, but it would take a shift far beyond simply the beliefs in which
children are raised. If evolution were to weed out hate and jealousy naturally, then maybe, otherwise you would have to genetically reengineer
But hate and jealousy and envy and greed are developed in a human who sees the world as a thing of scarcity. If you love to race dirt bikes, would
you expend energy hating another if you could just go race dirt bikes anytime you wanted? Would you be jealous of another if you loved mountain
climbing and could just go do that whenever you felt like it? Would you be envious of someone who had something if you could get one just like it
yourself? Would you be greedy if you never felt you might "miss out" on something - that it would always be there for you to take as you want?
As for this "sci-fi" you speak of
The sci-fi talked about in the venus project also included a world where the needs of people were met. This is not capable in the world as it is at
this moment. We do have the ability to work to that point, but it would take decades or longer without the hinderence of corporate greed.
Well, I disagree with you on the length of time, but if we "have the ability to work to that point," what stops you from enthusiastically doing so?
Instead of lamenting the perceived barriers, support the idea. Pass it on to get more involved to make it happen all the quicker!
Work to remove ALL hindrance!
One of the other big problems in this venus project is the concept that people will have to abandon religion in order for this to work. The
narrator of the film claimed that the only thing that we should take from religion is the philosophy behind it. Anyone who studies philosophy will
know that there can be philosophies that contradict one another. This goes beyond the confines of organized religion.
Sure, there are differing philosophies, but as for majorly accepted religions, there is one prevailing concept - and you know what it is. I prefer it
in the Asian format: Do not do unto others that which you would not have done to you. Do not hate them, as you would be not want to be hated. Do
not leave them helpless, as you would not want to be left helpless. Do not beat up on them, as you would not want to beat up upon. Do not belittle
their existence, as you would not want to be belittled in your existence.
I do like the idea of a world where people don't have to work, but can persue there interests and expand there abilities. I liked that idea
when I saw it on Star Trek as a kid. I don't think that the venus project offered anything new, other than to try to inject into the concept,
socialist and anti-religous sentament.
I disagree. I think the Venus Project points out that IT IS NOW POSSIBLE. And it is because of our level of tech that it is so. No, the vision is
not new. But the idea that it is possible NOW is.
There is nothing "socialist" about it. And as long as people believe there is an "Us" and a "Them" amongst us humans, it will be a very
difficult scene to enact (though likely still possible). And I think the religious thing is more of the Zeitgeist makers' view than of the Venus
[edit on 10/7/2008 by Amaterasu]
[edit on 10/7/2008 by Amaterasu]