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Originally posted by Clearskies
I can't believe the amount of ignorance here.
Many of us creationists show PROOF of the connections between eugenics, genocide, atheism and evolution and some of you can still say, "That was how it was way back when", "Well, Christians have killed", "this isn't about evolution",!
I give you Darwin's OWN words and you look the other way, not even addressing it, instead focusing on his cousin and son!!!
Originally posted by Clearskies
Has Atheism hi-jacked the moral VOID of evolution? YES. Why?
Because without a CREATOR to endow inalienable rights to ALL, weak and small, the STRONGER, more vociferous cretins enforce theirs, JUST as in the jungle.
Originally posted by Clearskies
Explain to me, please, the 'supposed' glaring differences between Darwin, Lysenco and Lamarck.
Many of us creationists show PROOF of the connections between eugenics, genocide, atheism and evolution
Mein Kampf.
The fox remains always a fox, the goose remains a goose, and the tiger will retain the character of a tiger....
For it was by the Will of God that men were made of a certain bodily shape,were given their natures and their faculties.
Speech,April 12 1922
My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them.
Hitler's Tabletalk. (Tischgesprache im Fuhrerhauptquartier)
The most marvelous proof of the superiority of Man, which puts man ahead of the animals, is the fact that he understands that there must be a Creator
I give you Darwin's OWN words and you look the other way,not even addressing it,instead focusing on his cousin and son!!!
After reading Darwin's Origin of Species, Galton built upon Darwin's ideas whereby the mechanisms of natural selection were potentially thwarted by human civilization. He reasoned that, since many human societies sought to protect the underprivileged and weak, those societies were at odds with the natural selection responsible for extinction of the weakest; and only by changing these social policies could society be saved from a "reversion towards mediocrity," a phrase he first coined in statistics and which later changed to the now common "regression towards the mean."
was from Darwin.The rest is from Galton and what he did.
the mechanisms of natural selection were potentially thwarted by human civilization.
This is in reference to Galton.
He reasoned
Darwin subscribed to the the theory that the weak should not breed and degenerate the races, but argued that it would hurt the 'noble' conscience of those who CHOSE to limit the negative effects. And furthermore that the ONLY salvation in the evolution of mankind, was that those with deformities didn't marry and procreate as much as the 'fit'.
Originally posted by jakyll
Correction.You have shown theories & speculations,not proof.And you're forgetting one very important thing in regards to Hitler.He believed in God! And so did many other Nazi's.As well as the usual Catholic's & Protestants they also had a faith called Positive Christianity and a church called the National Reich Church.
Also when Hitler uses the word "evolution" in Mein Kampf,it is clear that he is not referring to Darwin's theory.He never mentions him. In fact,a look at his writings reveals his sentiments on the subject to be those of an orthodox creationist.
I give you Darwin's OWN words and you look the other way,not even addressing it,instead focusing on his cousin and son!!!
No you didn't.You quoted this;
After reading Darwin's Origin of Species, Galton built upon Darwin's ideas whereby the mechanisms of natural selection were potentially thwarted by human civilization. He reasoned that, since many human societies sought to protect the underprivileged and weak, those societies were at odds with the natural selection responsible for extinction of the weakest; and only by changing these social policies could society be saved from a "reversion towards mediocrity," a phrase he first coined in statistics and which later changed to the now common "regression towards the mean."
Thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.
The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, even at the urging of hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature. The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil. ... We must therefore bear the undoubtedly bad effects of the weak surviving and propagating their kind; but there appears to be at least one check in steady action, namely that the weaker and inferior members of society do not marry so freely as the sound; and this check might be indefinitely increased by the weak in body or mind refraining from marriage, though this is more to be hoped for than expected
You said,
Darwin subscribed to the the theory that the weak should not breed and degenerate the races, but argued that it would hurt the 'noble' conscience of those who CHOSE to limit the negative effects. And furthermore that the ONLY salvation in the evolution of mankind, was that those with deformities didn't marry and procreate as much as the 'fit'.
Nowhere did Darwin claim such a thing and nowhere has any over pioneer of evolution stated such a thing.But those who follow Eugenics say such things.
Originally posted by jakyll
Oh,and the theory of evolution actually disproved the lamarckism theory,so how on earth could they have anything in common
Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
In truth i don't care. What Darwin thought in his personal life is completely unimportant. What his theory says is the important part. If you want to attack his theory then stick to the theory, not the man.
Hell i could attack atomic theory by attacking the men who support it and i coul no doubt find dirt on them. Would this disprove atmoic theory? No it wouldn't.
Stop trying to deflect the theory, start attacking the theory itself.
Hell i could attack atomic theory by attacking the men who support it and i coul no doubt find dirt on them. Would this disprove atmoic theory? No it wouldn't.
I NEVER said he was a Darwinist adherent. He used Lamarckian evolution.
Let me google it for you.Hitler's views on evolution dictated that there were inferior races, who were threatening to interbreed with the higher races and 'taint' them.You don't know that?
My point is.............. THAT DARWIN WAS RACIST. THAT EUGENICS was/is racist and evolutionary science, genocide and atheism go hand-in-hand. It's not rocket science!
Did you not see this, below that in THE SAME POST?
Thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, even at the urging of hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature. The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil. ... We must therefore bear the undoubtedly bad effects of the weak surviving and propagating their kind; but there appears to be at least one check in steady action, namely that the weaker and inferior members of society do not marry so freely as the sound; and this check might be indefinitely increased by the weak in body or mind refraining from marriage, though this is more to be hoped for than expected.
With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilized men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination. We build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly anyone is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, even at the urging of hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature. The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil.
"I have watched how steadily the general feeling, as shown at elections, has been rising against Slavery. What a proud thing for England, if she is the first European nation which utterly abolish is it. I was told before leaving England, that after living in slave countries: all my options would be altered; the only alteration I am aware of is forming a much higher estimate of the Negros character. It is impossible to see a negro & not feel kindly toward him; such cheerful, open honest expressions & such fine muscular bodies; I never saw any of the diminutive Portuguese with their murderous countenances, without almost wishing for Brazil to follow the example of Haiti; & considering the enormous healthy looking black population, it will be wonderful if at some future day it does not take place."
"But I suppose you are all too overwhelmed with the public affairs to care for science. I never knew the newspapers so profoundly interesting. N. America does not do England Justice: I have not seen or heard of a soul who is not with the North. Some few, & I am one, even and wish to God, though at the loss of millions of lives, that the North would proclaim a crusade against Slavery. In the long run, a million horrid deaths would be amply repaid in the cause of humanity. What wonderful times we live in. Massachusetts seems to show noble enthusiasm. Great God how I should like to see the greatest curse on Earth Slavery abolished. "
Oh, yeah.
Tell that to the inferior races under Hitler who used Lamarkian evolution.
Let me google it for you.Hitler's views on evolution dictated that there were inferior races, who were threatening to interbreed with the higher races and 'taint' them.You don't know that?
My point is.............. THAT DARWIN WAS RACIST. THAT EUGENICS was/is racist and evolutionary science, genocide and atheism go hand-in-hand. It's not rocket science!
I did.And there's something important you should know;selective quoting is a bad form of argument and can make George Bush seem intelligent and can make Mother Theresa look like the daughter of Satan.
You really need to read Darwin's books all the way through before you form an opinion.If you do you will find that in the Descent of Man Darwin opposed the polygenism theory,developed by scientific racist discourse,which postulated that the different human races were distinct species(polygenism) and were likely separately "created".To the contrary,Darwin considered that all human beings were of the same species,and that races,if they were useful markers at all, were simply "sub-species" or "variants." This view is known as monogenism.He also viewed the differences between human races as superficial.In the book he also discusses Galton's theory...and dismisses it.
Now,not only are you guilty of selective quoting,you are also guilty of pasting gross miss-interpretations of what Darwin said.You,quoted this;
In the book this is what is actually said;
With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilized men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination. We build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the weak members of civilized societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly anyone is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, even at the urging of hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature. The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with an overwhelming present evil.
Oh,and as for Darwin being a racist,how foolish would you feel if you found out that he was actually an abolitionist??
The children, moreover, that are borne by mothers during the prime of life are heavier and larger, and therefore probably more vigorous, than those born at other periods. Thus the reckless, degraded, and often vicious members of society, tend to increase at a quicker rate than the provident and generally virtuous members. Or as Mr. Greg puts the case: "The careless, squalid, unaspiring Irishman multiplies like rabbits: the frugal, foreseeing, self-respecting, ambitious Scot, stern in his morality, spiritual in his faith, sagacious and disciplined in his intelligence, passes his best years in struggle and in celibacy, marries late, and leaves few behind him. Given a land originally peopled by a thousand Saxons and a thousand Celts- and in a dozen generations five-sixths of the population would be Celts, but five-sixths of the property, of the power, of the intellect, would belong to the one-sixth of Saxons that remained. In the eternal 'struggle for existence,' it would be the inferior and less favoured race that had prevailed- and prevailed by virtue not of its good qualities but of its faults."
Eventually he no longer believed renounced his faith and published his findings.
loosley speaking, becasue its used in a different way to the one it often gets misused in
Originally posted by lunchbox1979
ok, if atheists belive in darwin's evolution, then what about survival of the fittest, isnt that part of evolution?
the strong overcomes the weak and gets to propagate while the weak become extinct, and if thats the case then isnt mans conflicts with one another just a way to cull the weak from the genepool?
nope
thus war and even genocide become justified?
curiosity satisfied i hope? at least from my personal point of view
but ive always wondered what people who are staunch evolutionists feel about that part of the theory. this isnt an attack on atheists im just curious.
Originally posted by Clearskies
Yes, you're right about that. The FIRST quote from Darwin was lazy on my part when I quoted it from an non-DARWIN site. I UN-KNOWINGLY did that.
. Or as Mr. Greg puts the case: "The careless, squalid, unaspiring Irishman multiplies like rabbits: the frugal, foreseeing, self-respecting, ambitious Scot, stern in his morality, spiritual in his faith, sagacious and disciplined in his intelligence,
Why won't anyone address my reference from Atheist Dawkins about eugenics?