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The Myth of the All Forgiving God.

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posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 01:45 AM
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[If you believe your sins can only be forgiven by God,then God has to be able to hear you when you pray for forgiveness.If he cannot hear you because you are wicked,then how on earth can you repent??]


He knows our hearts ..he knows us even better than we know ourselves ..he would hear a TRULY REPENTANT person and touch them right then and there .......*he sure did me ..once I came to him for the RIGHT reasons and gave him my WHOLE self that time ...I still feel his touch ..everyday from that day on .....I feel his presence every second actually ....

Which is why so many who claim to be Christians are so cold and calculating and never actually change (with no fruits at all) .....
They never had a REAL CONVERSION because their prayer never got heard because they had ulterior motives ..And alot of people only want God to be at their beckon command and only come to him for rewards or to just save themselves etc ... ..or for other reasons ..like their life is messed up and they think God is gonna justify whatever they do and allow them to live as they want after that ..no change ..no cares ..no worries ... On Sunday God will forgive me again attitudes ...etc .........
Those who just said the words ..did not mean it in their heart .....and do not intend on walking the walk nor taking the steps to TRULY allow the Lord into their heart mind and soul .........I am sure that their prayers go unheard because they didnt mean it .....or it was all for selfish reasons ....and selfish prayers (Praying amiss) ... ..
UNTIL they really mean it in their heart with no other intentions other than I NEED YOU IN MY LIFE LORD .And I LOVE YOU and I want to know you better .

Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Mat 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Notice they just wanted to flee the wrath to come ...no repentance ..no remorse for sins etc ...just save me from the wrath ....thats all they wanted ...


God knows you and he hears your thoughts ......you cannot fool him .....not at all ..




posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 04:30 AM
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Following and believing in the idea of religion and its is egoic made constructs of defined rules and values which are then espoused by one appointed by its heir- achy claiming to be always a higher authority is asking for trouble and is likened to the blind following the blind or the mental patients actually running the "funny farm"

God never resides in institutions only in individuals.




posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by miriam0566
 

I would agree with that if it didn't say 'inspired.'
I have been inspired by people to write poems,but the words are all mine.
Here is a quote from the previously mentioned commentary:

Inspiration is here predicated of the writings, "all Scripture," not of the persons.
What this is saying is that it is the scripture itself that is inspired and not the person. As an example, if you ran into one of the Bible writers out in the street, buying food in the market and discussing his purchase with a vendor, he would not be speaking inspired words. The inspired words are the ones he had written down into what we now consider scripture.



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by Epsillion70
God never resides in institutions only in individuals.


is there any proof to back up a statement like that?



posted on Oct, 12 2008 @ 04:07 AM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

Originally posted by Epsillion70
God never resides in institutions only in individuals.


is there any proof to back up a statement like that?


What proof would you like me to give?
As I can only state my own experience which all being One. Is simply the personal experience of that loving, happy, Joyful and quite peaceful feeling when one prays and meditates to the source of All That Is(God) deep within one's own heart in quiteness.



posted on Oct, 12 2008 @ 04:20 AM
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Originally posted by Epsillion70
What proof would you like me to give?
As I can only state my own experience which all being One. Is simply the personal experience of that loving, happy, Joyful and quite peaceful feeling when one prays and meditates to the source of All That Is(God) deep within one's own heart in quiteness.


so your proof is a feeling? there are people who go to church and feel things similar. when i did acid, i felt the same way, my problems just melted away, is that proof that god wants me to do acid?

god created will 2 interesting qualities. emotion and reason.

if one jumps to conclusions based solely on emotion, then one is ignoring reason, and vice versa.

reason would state, that if god was out there and he actually cared about us and cared to have a relationship with us, then he would reach out to us, at the very least to show the way. there would also HAVE to be a reason he permits the world to be the way it is because lets face it, its far from a loving peaceful place.

if one looks into the reasons suffering is permitted, one would find that the concept of god having an organization of people is unavoidable. (keep in mind, im not in any way saying the church is that organization)



posted on Oct, 12 2008 @ 04:38 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 



One can "drop" Acid if one so chooses. But this feeling is synthetic and it will not last as a true feeling because in my own understandings,
Infinite love, peace, happiness and joy is the only truth, everything else is illusion.
Hence then if we have any other feelings apart from these then we are in reality acting out a dream of illusory content.
To further elucidate, Logically how could a loving God want us to have fear, hate, anger, pain, suffering and finally have war with each other.. unless we ourselves choose to feel these things out of our belief system of values.

Is not that what the one called the Jesus Christ showed us in his own life story?
To be able to transcend the world of the physicality of form and understand;
You are what you are through the choosing of the willful intent of the mind of One in Communion.

[edit on 12-10-2008 by Epsillion70]

[edit on 12-10-2008 by Epsillion70]



posted on Oct, 12 2008 @ 05:59 AM
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God doesn't mess with his creation. Its the humans who mess with God and his creations just take a good look around you. This is not have God wanted us to use his creation, this is have humans want to use Gods creation. Why !!!
Because we don't believe in a God and a creation made by God any more, We never real did. Since we don't realy believe in a God, we have no God to be accountable to. We are only accountable to our self and our own doings. We never look to God for any help we look to our political leaders for that. Just take a good look around you again.
But in the end the Irony is that we blame God/religion for the evil that we do.


[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Oct, 12 2008 @ 01:49 PM
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miriam0566



a lawyer can say to his secretary that he wants a letter that says this, this and this. the secretary writes it, but its still the lawyer that signs it even though the words are technically the secretary´s.


The writing only comes from the secretary,the words are the lawyers.




do you really think moses could imagine creation? or that job could imagine the world was round? what about john and his vision of heaven? these were inspired of god, or communicated from him.


Of course.
The faiths and beliefs that have a creation legend are passed down to each generation,and likewise they each have visions of heaven.(s)
Fantasy authors come up with amazing ideas for different worlds and realsm,some humans are capable of such things.(not saying the bible is a fantasy,just giving you a comparison.)




Simplynoone.



They never had a REAL CONVERSION because their prayer never got heard because they had ulterior motives ..And alot of people only want God to be at their beckon command and only come to him for rewards or to just save themselves etc ... ..or for other reasons ..like their life is messed up and they think God is gonna justify whatever they do and allow them to live as they want after that ..no change ..no cares ..no worries ... On Sunday God will forgive me again attitudes ...etc .........


Very true.
They change God to fit their views and beliefs.




Epsillion70.



God never resides in institutions only in individuals.


Well,he's supposed to be everywhere,including within us.But too many people seem to want to keep him within a church or temple,that way they can jealously guard him from others.



posted on Oct, 12 2008 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by jakyll
The writing only comes from the secretary,the words are the lawyers.


not all the time. sometimes the lawyer will simply say something like ¨write a letter to mr. so-and-so requesting this, this and this.¨

the secratary would then write,

¨dear mr so-and-so, we are writing you today to request this information that is relevant to this case... etc etc etc¨

those words are not the lawyers. but the ideas are. the bible is similar. it is ¨inspired¨ not word by word dictation



Of course.
The faiths and beliefs that have a creation legend are passed down to each generation,


none of them but the bible´s is actually scientifically accurate. i believe, someone pointed out 10 majors points to the genesis account. not only did moses get those points correct, but he also accurately put them in the right order.

all this and he did it at a time with mythology creation tales were completely far-fetched and removed from scientific understanding of what actually did happen.



posted on Oct, 12 2008 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 





none of them but the bible´s is actually scientifically accurate. i believe, someone pointed out 10 majors points to the genesis account. not only did moses get those points correct, but he also accurately put them in the right order.


Really?

Moses fails from the very first creation verse.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth".

If we take heavens to mean the universe then this far from accurate as the universe is billions of years older than the earth.
www.geocities.com...


I understand what you're saying about inspiration and it can mean the direct word of God,but that would apply only to parts of the bible.Some books are Hebrew historical records only and some are historical records of the life of Jesus.Therefore not all of the bible can be the direct word of God.



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 06:27 AM
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Originally posted by jakyll
Really?

Moses fails from the very first creation verse.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth".

If we take heavens to mean the universe then this far from accurate as the universe is billions of years older than the earth.
www.geocities.com...


how does that scripture conflict with it? does 1:1 give any indication of how long it took for god to create it? no, it simple says he created the heavens and the earth. the websites says it implies being created at the same time, honestly im not sure where they are getting that.

in fact most of the website bases its arguments on wrong assumptions

about verse 2 it says


The verse refers to "the face of the waters". If this verse refers to the waters on earth, such as the ocean, it is completely wrong. The early earth had no ocean. It was not until millions of years of accretion had built up the planet that liquid water began to form, both from volcanic outgassing and from the impacts of comets attracted by the gravity of the earth.


this assumption is wrong, because the early earth DID have oceans, not obviously in its first years, but then the bible is not saying it was the first years, remember that in verse one the basic earth was created already, so now we are talking about sometime after. even while the volcanos were very active, earth had oceans. in fact, its where it is theorized life came from.


However, most Biblical scholars believe that the "waters" referred to here are those in heaven, from which rain comes. This interpretation is supported by the fact that the Genesis account later describes how these "waters" were divided from those of earth by a wall, with one portion of these divided waters forming the oceans.


no, scholars do not believe that. so the arguement is moot

in fact, this scripture gives us a point of reference moses "watches" creation.


But we know from science that the early universe did not have any liquid water. None at all. Not even any water molecules. In fact, for a period of several hundred thousand years, it did not have any molecules of any sort. The Genesis description of water above the "firmament" is simply wrong.


this is what i mean by assumptions, it is assuming we are talking about an early universe, the universe was already created in verse one, we a specifically talking about earth in verse 2, specifically a time when earth DID have oceans.

so far, there are no conflicts within the first 2 verses and science.

the heavens where created first, the earth after, and the the earth eventually had oceans before it had life. verse 2 mentions darkness, which i also true of earth during this time period. the atmosphere was filled with chemicals and volcanic material, chances are, if you were standing there watching, it would be dark too. (a fact that moses couldnt "guess")



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 09:19 AM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


Christians don't claim God forgives all people, God only forgives those whom repent and seek forgiveness.



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 03:21 PM
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To ask for forgiveness is not just to say "Please forgive me". In order to ask for forgiveness you need to understand why what you did was wrong, and then no longer do it anymore. At that point you are forgiven because then you will no longer do wrong.

People who think they can just accept the image of Jesus as their savior are wrong. That is to worship a false idol. To accept Jesus into your heart is to understand why he was right, and then to follow in his example. That doesn't mean you need to be crucified or such, it just means to follow in what he taught.

He didn't die on the cross so that you could worship the cross and get into heaven. He died on the cross to show people the actions and the philosophy to follow in order to get into "heaven".

A popular notion I keep hearing lately is dealing with the changing of the ages, and the worship of the false idol Taurus. That Moses was upset they were worshiping Taurus the bull, and it was because the age of the Ram was coming in. That is a lie(not the ages part). They were worshiping a false idol NOT because of the age, but because they had focused on image and symbolism rather than the teachings. That is why they were worshiping a false idol.

Every time someone says something bad about Jesus, it's always dealing with people who took and worship the false idol(his image, rather than his teachings) and have done things which go against the teachings.

Where are the ones who will dare debate the philosophy and teachings of Jesus as wrong? Why do we never see that kind of a debate?



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 03:50 PM
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You know my ex husband used to treat me terrible ..messed around all of the time ..just did whatever felt good to him at the time..He kept saying ...well gee I am sorry ....yadda yadda ...everytime within a few days of saying it ..he was doing the same thing ....never ending Im sorrys ...and never ending doing it all over again and over and over again ..
It did not take a rocket scientist to see that HE WAS NOT VERY SORRY ...they were mere words ...which meant nothing to him ...(sure he could fool me ..but you cannot fool God ..he knows whether your really sorry and trying to do better or not) .......if he was so sorry ...it may have only happened one or two times more ..not 100 times ....

Oh and then he would say ..Look you have to forgive me everytime because your a Christian and God says you have to (he had plans to do it all again the next day ) he didnt want to stop ..he did not care ......yes well ...even God would not ask me to be a fool ....so eventually I had to walk away from him ..he was using my love for the Lord and using the forgiveness card and it was not good for him or me for it to continue that way ...

You cannot just say Im sorry without having some real intentions of changing things .



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by Simplynoone
 
Sounds like a classic sociopath, to me.
He only got worried about the possible consequences to him, from his actions.
He did not really care about how you felt, other than how it affected him.
We can be the same way, if all we care about is the possibility of going to hell and think your words are a kind of repentance.
That's why in the Gospel it says the Law is to love God and to love others.
If we do not really care for others, out of Love, we will get tossed aside, no matter how much we plead for our own skins.



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 06:24 PM
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we all must pay for our sins....
now or in eternity

a allforgiven god?

HOW COULD GOD FORGIVE YOU; IF YOU DONT FORGIVE YOURSELF?

Nia Wind



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 11:06 PM
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reply to post by NW111
 


[HOW COULD GOD FORGIVE YOU; IF YOU DONT FORGIVE YOURSELF? ]

Now that I agree with ....I spent at least 20 years hating myself for all of the horrid things I had done ..even as a child (which I really did not know any better then) .....I could not understand when I first came to the Lord 20 years before that ..why nothing had changed in me ..or in my life ..or my heart...
I did my best to find out why not ..I searched the scriptures..went to every church I could and asked the preachers etc ..no one really knew why not ...
Then one day I was pretty much shown in a dream or something ..*cant really remember the event .....I realized that I had not ever forgiven myself .I was forgiven ..from the Lord ..but not from me ......I finally let it all go ..like see ya ..not gonna think about ya no more ..bye bye guilt ...and then everything changed .......and I have never been the same since ..
And the Lord could then work with me on changing the way I was (heart mind and soul) ...I had to forgive me in order to put it behind me and be able to move forward.........
Psa 103:12 — As far as the east is from the west, [so] far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
If he removes them that far ..We need to send them that far away from us too ...

Another thing is you have to forgive others ..before your even forgiven by God ..your pleading for mercy for forgiveness from God dont you think it is only fair that you show the same to those who have wronged you ..
The bible says you need to go and deal with them first before even comeing to him for your forgiveness ...
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by Simplynoone
 


like i think :-)

and it hearts me, that so many people walk out there..never forgive themself
this is the biggest lie from the vatican.. that god forgive everything.

We are our own souls..with the breath of god. We must learn to forgive ourselves..then, and only then, god can bring light in our souls and hearts.

Blessings

Nia Wind



posted on Oct, 30 2008 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by NW111
 


Yes once one learns to forgive themselves then they have a deeper appreciation for their fellow human being and understand that we all go through the same trials and tribulations as one in mind and spirit. Hence then one is enlightened to the illusory aspects of fear, guilt and hate that serve only to separate everyone from each other.







 
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