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The Myth of the All Forgiving God.

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posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 05:00 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


but thats my point, MischeviousElf saw "god" and has now shared that information with all, what makes moses any more trust worthy than MischeviousElf?




posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 10:01 AM
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miriam0566.



it was a very good site, but ill be honest, i didnt fully understand it.


They were saying that the sins of the father only pass onto the next generations only if they break God's covenant and lead their family away.Meaning later generations will not have the chance to learn about God.




MischeviousElf.



Do you really believe God is into self harming? Could God be angry and hate a part of itself, in the same illusion that us mere mortals inhabit, the idea of difference and seperation?


He did send his only begotten son to die in a hoffific manner.Jesus is part of God is he not??




Find peace in your own heart, and you make a step closer to God. Find ways to pay back your wrongs, atone fro them, and do good, to feel proud of yourself when you meet god next, then nothing matters what you have done before.


This,i agree with.






jmdewey60.



I do not see any difference in repenting or not, considering what you seem to believe in. Might as well just do whatever you feel like and after you die, you can feel sorry for it and everything is ok. This is some sort of philosophy that borrows the name of Jesus but otherwise has no similarity to Christianity, as far as I can tell.


If you believe your sins can only be forgiven by God,then God has to be able to hear you when you pray for forgiveness.If he cannot hear you because you are wicked,then how on earth can you repent??




mortalengine.



Before I begin, let me first clarify that this is my own belief an not necessarily everyones paradigm.


Do you believe in/follow the Bible??



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


If you believe your sins can only be forgiven by God,then God has to be able to hear you when you pray for forgiveness.If he cannot hear you because you are wicked,then how on earth can you repent??

I tryed to pose, in a round about way, this sort of question on a Christian forum and got four answers and three of those probably would agree with you, if this is really how you feel, about God always being open to repentance. One person told me that serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer appears to have died a Christian. One out of the four agreed with me that there is a point that beyond that, God ceases to listen to you. I went to this trouble because you were making generalities about how Christians believe and I wanted to find out if you were right. There apparently are some Christians who believe that everyone has a chance to be saved, including you hypothetical of Hitler.
So, my thinking the opposite of that is my opinion and may not be the majority view among Christians in general.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 10:51 AM
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Can i ask an honest question? ok, will ask anyway lol

From a christains point of view, where do other religions (including atheists) stand in terms of not accepting jesus as their saviour? i know [well, from what i have read] that muslims accept that jesus existed, as do the jesuits but do not consider jesus as their savour/messiah (have i got that right?). How will things pan out for these people? surely we will not all burn in "hell"?

if you take a child raised in a strict muslim home, likely hood is that they will remain muslim raising more muslims, surely theyre not all damned?



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by enduser
 





From a christains point of view, where do other religions (including atheists) stand in terms of not accepting jesus as their saviour? i know [well, from what i have read] that muslims accept that jesus existed, as do the jesuits but do not consider jesus as their savour/messiah (have i got that right?). How will things pan out for these people? surely we will not all burn in "hell"?


i know some faiths like Islam,Buddhism and Hinduism see Jesus as one of the great prophets,but nothing more.

Some Christians believe they will burn in hell,some believe they will have a chance to convert after the resurrection and others,like me,believe that if they are living a good life etc then they are already saved,as are Christians who live that way.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 11:09 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Yeah,i know appear to be generalizing,but its not a conscience thing.

I believe what it says in the scriptures.And God will always hear you're prayers for forgiveness unless you have committed the Unforgivable Sin.

People who believe that the worst kinda people will not be heard,i think,is down to our human nature.We find it hard to forgive the wicked,some wouldn't even know where to begin on the road to forgiving a tyrant or a despot,so they project that onto God.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


So really there is no real consensus within christianity as to what will happen to these none believers/followers? isnt it funny (well not quite) how each religion claims to be "the religion" to join, trying to convert others to their ways, can be rather confusing for some and perhaps why people get put off?

I do see quite a lot of "part time" religious people, and those that preach which they do not practice, human nature I guess, do as i say and not as i do. and the hypocrisy through the ages shown by the church, by that i mean thou shall not harm etc etc. so much blood shed in the name of god, it is barbaric rather than divine.

I personally believe that jesus once existed but more in line with a buddha if that makes any sense? To be honest, one of the problems i have with the bible is that it isnt in its purest form, it has been added to and subtracted from, by mere mortal men from my understanding, not to mention loss of information/meaning through translation through the ages. did god or jesus communicate to any of the bible creators to influence what would be taught or was it all based on knowledge passed down?

if there was no real divine power behind the creation of the bible texts, is it not possible that perhaps these men had an agenda in mind and not one that jesus would have liked?

Can i ask, do any of you believe in reincarnation? by that i mean when you die, after some period of time, your soul/spirit will be reborn into a new human (or whatever) form on earth or else where in this physical plane?
Im sure i have read somewhere (cant remember where) than reincarnation was removed from the bible, is that correct?

When i see politicians use the word god it makes me cringe sometimes, if they actually believed in the bible would they not lay down the sword and leave the judgement to god? didnt jesus teach that if a man slaps you you should turn your other cheek to him as so he can slap you again? the real teachings of jesus i believe have been lost to human manipulation and interpretation. thats my humble opinion at least


btw, i do appreciate you all taking the time to respond, i know i could research this stuff myself but id rather hear it from you guys, if thats cool

and im by no means trying to knock what you believe, i strongly believe that if you lead a good life then that is all that needs to be done. i do not feel comfortable in a church asking for salvation from a wooden idol that as far as im concerned can look nothing like jesus, what we see is a white guy to perhaps make it more comfortable for people to worship, imagine 100 years ago in the US or UK ago worshipping a coloured guy, it wouldnt happen.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 12:12 PM
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reply to post by enduser
 


if you take a child raised in a strict muslim home, likely hood is that they will remain muslim raising more muslims, surely theyre not all damned?
Knowing the name Jesus in a sort of ambiguous way and not having a special faith in it, not being taught to do so, does not condemn a person. Living amongst people filled with the Holy Spirit and proclaiming a faith unto salvation, and then rejecting it, would condemn that person.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


So basically to preach what you do not practice? gee's, there sure are a lot of christains in trouble if thats the case =o.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by jakyll
 

I believe what it says in the scriptures.And God will always hear you're prayers for forgiveness unless you have committed the Unforgivable Sin. Let me quote from a mainstream evangelical protestant commentery on the unpardonable sin of Mathew and Mark:

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
slandering the same blessed Person after the blaze of glory which the Holy Ghost was soon to throw around His claims, and in the full knowledge of all that. This would be to slander Him with eyes open, or to do it "presumptuously." To blaspheme Christ in the former condition-when even the apostles stumbled at many things-left them still open to conviction on fuller light: but to blaspheme Him in the latter condition would be to hate the light the clearer it became, and resolutely to shut it out; which, of course, precludes salvation. The Pharisees had not as yet done this; but in charging Jesus with being in league with hell they were displaying beforehand a malignant determination to shut their eyes to all evidence, and so, bordering upon, and in spirit committing, the unpardonable sin.



[edit on 7-10-2008 by jmdewey60]



posted on Oct, 10 2008 @ 02:58 AM
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reply to post by enduser
 



Doesnt the bible also NOT say that it is the "Word of God" yet all churches say that it is in fact the "Word of God" which is blasphemous beyond comparison. Understand that and you will understand where the churches power lies. Believe me it is that one single lie and nothing else which allows the church to manipulate and control so many, it's really quite sad.

That one lie gives birth to all the other lies, then they go and throw that great man Jesus into it to give it credibility so it isn't all a crock of lies. Makes me sick how they do this and have been doing it for so long.
As Jesus would have called them, Brood of Vipers!



posted on Oct, 10 2008 @ 03:08 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by jakyll
 

I believe what it says in the scriptures.And God will always hear you're prayers for forgiveness unless you have committed the Unforgivable Sin.
Let me quote from a mainstream evangelical protestant commentery on the unpardonable sin of Mathew and Mark:

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
slandering the same blessed Person after the blaze of glory which the Holy Ghost was soon to throw around His claims, and in the full knowledge of all that. This would be to slander Him with eyes open, or to do it "presumptuously." To blaspheme Christ in the former condition-when even the apostles stumbled at many things-left them still open to conviction on fuller light: but to blaspheme Him in the latter condition would be to hate the light the clearer it became, and resolutely to shut it out; which, of course, precludes salvation. The Pharisees had not as yet done this; but in charging Jesus with being in league with hell they were displaying beforehand a malignant determination to shut their eyes to all evidence, and so, bordering upon, and in spirit committing, the unpardonable sin.



[edit on 7-10-2008 by jmdewey60]

Anyone who knows the way God speaks knows this is not his way. What it DOES sound like is man made rules - people are all to quick to confuse God and religion, two very different concepts like Iron and Clay.



posted on Oct, 10 2008 @ 03:30 AM
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Yeah there is a big difference between religiosity and actual spirituality.

One only creates infinite love; oneness,, unity, happiness, joy, understanding, certainty, forgiveness, freedom and peace.

The other makes fear, hate, anger, separateness, division, anxiety, pain, specialness, uncertainty, slavery and war.



posted on Oct, 10 2008 @ 04:02 AM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


I grew up as most did, parents didn't go to church but were 'christians, who celebrated in Christmas, Easter and grew up fed the story of the bibile, but did not actually read it. I bits from the old testament earlier this year and then read extracts of the Torah - Umm very similar eh, but diffrent. You can do this with most religions and find the same stories told from anothers perspective. At school we called that scenario chinese whispers. Not sure whi one (Torah or bible), or even if both state, that God says he is a jealous 'God' and will not tolerate worship of any other god or material thing. Geez, well thats most of us had it then, this would include beng materialistic which unfortunately too many of us today sadly are. But doesn't that contradict itself, i thought the bible says that jelousy is a bad thing - Hmmmmm. And also where Adam ad eve tast the forbidden fruit - That seriously has got to be huge sybolism. God says that if they tasted the apple of knowledge they would become aware. Tur to its form they did, and when they realised they were naked they were embarrassed. I thought about this when i was a child, I questioned why we had to were clothes, if it was just to keep warm then why do people make such a fuss over being naked? I'd think, if people had no clothes all the time then they wouldnt be bothered because it would be normal. i really didn't get things like that then. When your a child you think that one day you will know everthing but as you grow up you learn that some ansers cannot or will not be answered. I compared the differences to humans and animals, personalities, traits, emotions and expressions. i felt deep down that the animals were somehow betteroff, free.
I didn't know the proper story of Adam and Eve back then just a watered down version that all kid get told. We were not told about that part where they become aware and embarrassed.

When i read it, i did so trying to anylyse why god made these descisions and experiments with people. I think it was just that an experiment. I tried to think if you took 2 people that had no memory and dumped them in the middle of paradise but in iosolation from socitey that would be a huge experiment. One to get a true bearing on how people develop from no knowlege or one knowldege, to many variations to those like ourselves who just seek the truth - whatever it may be. Curiousity drivrs us, knowegde feeds us, how we act upon that information depends on the person you are deep inside, some people are sheep and follow, others question the source and the information and think for themselves and draw their own conclusions upon reflection.



[edit on 10-10-2008 by MCoG1980]

[edit on 10-10-2008 by MCoG1980]



posted on Oct, 10 2008 @ 04:07 AM
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reply to post by Epsillion70
 


I totally agree. Theres even a manual to war in the dead sea scrolls. Religion is a social experiment in my opinion,



posted on Oct, 10 2008 @ 09:43 AM
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ok...shooting from the hip here

quoting from bible



5 And the Lord descended in the cloud and stood there with him as he called upon the name of the Lord. 6 Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth; 7 who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations”(Exodus 34:5-7).



17 “And they refused to listen, And did not remember Thy wondrous deeds which Thou hadst performed among them; So they became stubborn and appointed a leader to return to their slavery in Egypt. But Thou art a God of forgiveness, Gracious and compassionate, Slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness; And Thou didst not forsake them” (Nehemiah 9:17).



5 For Thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive, And abundant in lovingkindness to all who call upon Thee (Psalm 86:5).



posted on Oct, 10 2008 @ 11:10 AM
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enduser.



So really there is no real consensus within christianity as to what will happen to these none believers/followers? isnt it funny (well not quite) how each religion claims to be "the religion" to join, trying to convert others to their ways, can be rather confusing for some and perhaps why people get put off?


Well,in the bible Jesus says,'those who are not against us,are with us.'
This can be interpreted as,if you lead a good life and always strive to do the right thing,then you are with God.

As for the whole,'our religion is best.' I put that down to people wanting to be God's 'chosen.' This is why there is a lot of conflict.I believe Christians who teach should do so in the manner of Jesus;with love and compassion.



Can i ask, do any of you believe in reincarnation? by that i mean when you die, after some period of time, your soul/spirit will be reborn into a new human (or whatever) form on earth or else where in this physical plane?


I do.But i believe that humans can only be born again as humans.The same with all the different animals.Reincarnation was taught in the early church,but Rome banned such teachings in the 6th century.This link will gives lots of information about reincarnation in the bible.
www.near-death.com...





mortalengine.



Doesnt the bible also NOT say that it is the "Word of God" yet all churches say that it is in fact the "Word of God" which is blasphemous beyond comparison. Understand that and you will understand where the churches power lies. Believe me it is that one single lie and nothing else which allows the church to manipulate and control so many, it's really quite sad.


No verse says directly that the bible is the word of God because the bible came together over many centuries.But there are plenty of verses that say certain laws,teachings etc are from God.





MCoG1980.



Curiousity drivrs us, knowegde feeds us, how we act upon that information depends on the person you are deep inside, some people are sheep and follow, others question the source and the information and think for themselves and draw their own conclusions upon reflection.


Very true.
As God must know this is part of our human nature,to see/experience things differently,i sometimes think he's being too optimistic in thinking that we can all become as one.




adamclement.

And your point of quoting those verses is....

Btw,thats a cool avatar,in a disturbing kinda way,lol.



posted on Oct, 10 2008 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by jakyll
No verse says directly that the bible is the word of God because the bible came together over many centuries.But there are plenty of verses that say certain laws,teachings etc are from God.


2 tim 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;



posted on Oct, 10 2008 @ 08:29 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


I would agree with that if it didn't say 'inspired.'

I have been inspired by people to write poems,but the words are all mine.



posted on Oct, 11 2008 @ 01:26 AM
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in·spire
Pronunciation:
\in-ˈspī(-ə)r\
Function:
verb
Inflected Form(s):
in·spired; in·spir·ing
Etymology:
Middle English, from Anglo-French & Latin; Anglo-French inspirer, from Latin inspirare, from in- + spirare to breathe
Date:
14th century

transitive verb1 a: to influence, move, or guide by divine or supernatural inspiration b: to exert an animating, enlivening, or exalting influence on c: to spur on : impel , motivate d: affect
2 aarchaic : to breathe or blow into or upon barchaic : to infuse (as life) by breathing
3 a: to communicate to an agent supernaturally b: to draw forth or bring out
4: inhale
5 a: bring about , occasion b: incite
6: to spread (rumor) by indirect means or through the agency of anotherintransitive verb: inhale
— in·spir·er noun


you are right, a person can be inspired but it is still your words, but there are other definitions of inspire.

a lawyer can say to his secretary that he wants a letter that says this, this and this. the secretary writes it, but its still the lawyer that signs it even though the words are technically the secretary´s.

do you really think moses could imagine creation? or that job could imagine the world was round? what about john and his vision of heaven? these were inspired of god, or communicated from him.




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