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The Myth of the All Forgiving God.

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posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 





I would like to add a coupe of verses that are not part of a tirade against Judea but still support the concept of God not hearing the prayers of evildoers.


If this was the case then there would be no point in repenting,would there?

Psalm 66:18

If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:
Regard means to 'look upon' or to 'think of.' You cannot think evil and pray to God at the same time.

Proverbs 28:9

He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
Thats evildoers ignoring God,not the other way round.




posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by jakyll
 



Before I begin, let me first clarify that this is my own belief an not necessarily everyones paradigm.

Having said that, let us begin...

God doesnt judge anyone, this is impossible for God - plain and simple.
God is only capable of loving, unequivocally. How do I know this ? - you're alive and you did nothing to merit it. None of us have, we didnt need to. What sort of father/mother/friend are you when you require merit to love that which you love ? - This simply doesnt exist, anything other than this is a lie designed to control you through fear and pain.

You judge yourself, God will comfort you through this, but ultimately it is you who will judge yourself, even to the point of "hell", because you will make "hell" with what you direct against yourself through guilt.

Forgiveness ? - God doesnt require forgiveness, you are already forgiven before you break your own rules which make you feel sinful. You forgive because only through forgiving others can you truly understand that you are as easily forgiven by God. Hence what I mean is that, only through learning total forgiveness can you fully understand how another, God, can forgive no matter what.

Your level of forgiveness for others is your gauge of what you can accept as forgiveness from God. It's not that you are'nt forgiven, but your free will, which is nothing other than your own godship, cannot be over-ridden by God, therefore - our "sin" seperates us from God not because God seperates from us but because we seperate from God out of what we believe we did wrong. In actual fact, you experienced and learnt - you didnt know wrong till you experienced it and decided what you thought was right or wrong. No father scolds his toddler for something they did which they didnt know was wrong.

Peace
J

[edit on 6-10-2008 by mortalengine]



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by jakyll
Good illustration but to say that we have the same hole as Adam sounds too much like the Original Sin theory.Which i don't believe.You are born innocent.

A good explanation of the 'sins of the fathers' can be found here;
www.carm.org...


it was a very good site, but ill be honest, i didnt fully understand it.

perhaps if i clarify.

im not saying in the illustration that we are dying for adams sin. we die for our own sin. however, what adam gave us is an inclination to sin. much like a genetic disease passed on from a parent to child.

the proof of that is that there is noone who is perfect today. everyone eventually sins.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 03:42 PM
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I some years ago experienced a very vivid and profound NDE.

I can as may be described "have seen the face of God", or more accurately remember this.

In my life review, I found myself experiencing every thought, word and action I had made FROM THE POINT of view/feeling of all those around me, not myself.

I started to retreat away from "The Light /God/Love" as MY CONSCIOUNCE would not allow me to be near this pure energy, I felt unworthy and ashamed.

However the Light/Love/God was not judging me, it was totally forgiving, and I went back to this Love then, it was accepting and non judgmental.

As I also experienced the lower Astral Planes in my journey to the light, it became evident this love and light was un judging, totally forgiving, It is only our conscience that punishes us until we feel we have atoned equally for what we have caused in others experiences of a negative nature.

How could God hurt/punish a part of itself?

If god created everything, then everything is God and within God, a part of God.

Do you really believe God is into self harming? Could God be angry and hate a part of itself, in the same illusion that us mere mortals inhabit, the idea of difference and seperation?

No of course not otherwise it would not be god then.

No exactly.... which is why God would not want to punish you, but you may feel you need to punish yourself to be in God's presence first!


Find peace in your own heart, and you make a step closer to God. Find ways to pay back your wrongs, atone fro them, and do good, to feel proud of yourself when you meet god next, then nothing matters what you have done before.


Kind Regards

Elf

Ps the face of God, She was Black :-)



[edit on 6-10-2008 by MischeviousElf]



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by MischeviousElf
 


That makes perfect sense to me and i appreciate you divulging such information. If only the churches taught such things, the world may be a better place for it, we can only wish, it seems.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by enduser
If only the churches taught such things, the world may be a better place for it, we can only wish, it seems.


yes, a better place. do whatever you want because god isnt going to harm you. the police maybe, but not god



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


well i wouldnt go around causing fear and slaughtering people in the name of god et al, thats just wrong!



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by enduser
well i wouldnt go around causing fear and slaughtering people in the name of god et al, thats just wrong!


your right, that is wrong. and the church will pay for its sins. however, no matter how ¨fearful¨ the message is, people are accountable for their actions. to say otherwise is just to take the other extreme.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


i agree, but to make an informed decision you need all the facts, not propaganda. maybe more people would follow "religion" if all the "facts" were available. most people i know cringe at the word religion, i wonder why lol



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 05:41 PM
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just out of interest, doesnt the bible say [somewhere] that you should not worship false idols? im sure the jesus on the cross is a false idol, i highly doubt he was a white dude?



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


Miriam,

I am sorry I never communicated what I meant that well,

Trust me now here though,
Those beings I saw in the lower astral planes, were punished, but it was their shame, thought patterns, anger etc that kept them from,
its soo hard to explain in words, but from looking at, being with this pure, warm, loving light, Bliss & perfection.

From what I can only deduce from the terrible, horrible, terryfying, sinking away from feeling, I had as I felt and experienced the pain in others, as them, that I had caused, seeing my own angry face shouting at someone and such like,

And other things I wont divuldge here! much worse I have done to.

Im really not being preaching here, sharing a personal experience, hopefully to help some on their search of truth.

Me going back to that source after that initial shrinking, eyes away, ashamed , moving away from the Love, and being within it again briefly, seemed to be because I was coming back to the earth plane.

Maybe it was the healing that allowed a quite amazing recovery from a very serious accident. But I don't think If I would have stayed "Dead" on the earth plane I would have stayed with the light!

There seemed to be an infinity of beings, on infinite levels of either good or bad, but not many close to the source!
And I think its a way to get there for us all my friends. We have to work at it people!
I do remember "Knowing" absolutely though that even the most tormented, vile energies, could if they worked at it eventually be part of the light again, or go home more properly.

I also knew that may take a very very very long time indeed in our human type of time perception!

So people should I think worry about the police because for crimes like theft, robbery, murder etc they should be after you, but you will punish yourself for it for a much much longer stretch when you die too!

Kind Regards,

Elf


[edit on 6-10-2008 by MischeviousElf]



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by enduser
just out of interest, doesnt the bible say [somewhere] that you should not worship false idols? im sure the jesus on the cross is a false idol, i highly doubt he was a white dude?


i agree with you, worshiping the cross is idol worship.

personally, my opinion was that jesus was jewish

i think i heard that his description was based on a letter sent to a roman, it was like 200 hundred years after jesus´death. so i guess we really dont know what he looks like. isnt really that important



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by MischeviousElf
but you will punish yourself for it for a much much longer stretch when you die too!


when i die, i hope to not be aware of it. im sorry, but our opinions differ.

eccl 9:5,10



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 06:12 PM
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So that makes three of us in this one thread, saying the exact same thing; God's love has no boundaries. Sin is the punishment of the self by the self. God will love you, sin or otherwise... but if you cannot love yourself with the things you've done, you will forever remain separate from the Divine.

Sin is the guilt we carry with us, nothing more or less. Make amends that would ease that guilt, do good by people. There is no eternal fire waiting to burn you until the universe ends, there is only the ire of your own disappointment and shame.

Love yourself. Love the people who hurt you, the people who sin against you. Love everyone, forgive everyone.

I know this isn't an easy path to take, but I don't expect perfection from anyone. Just attempting is enough, for if nobody tries, nothing improves.



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


Miriam,

I don't have an "Opinion" on this. Just the "Facts" of what I experienced.

Opinion and experience fact or truth are not the same.

Due to advances in medical science, millions of people worldwide now have had experiences like mine. In history too and it seems to be a common experience to us, who die in body , but come back to life.

Our shared experiences, are factual, real we all experienced them, its real Miriam.

So lighten up eh because I have this feeling,everything, everyone will go home totally to this love one day, and im happy at the thought of the love I and Millions of others know you will experience one day again, how happy it will make you, and how blissfully warm, comfortable, loved, accepted, adored you really are by the Universal mind.

Love to you!

Elf

[edit on 6-10-2008 by MischeviousElf]



posted on Oct, 6 2008 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by MischeviousElf
 


Just the "Facts" of what I experienced.

I am sure you had some sort of experience.I had some sort of NDE type experience, thanks to some doctors who seemed to be unconcernd whether their patients died or not. I am not sure what happened and in a discussion with one of the interns (they were actualy only doctors in training) he said I could have died. (not exactly in those words because he was liability adverse)
I am not sure if these experiences are something to base theology on but it was probably something you needed to learn. Near death has a way of defining what is important, to the person who is experiencing it.

[edit on 6-10-2008 by jmdewey60]



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 02:38 AM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


If this was the case then there would be no point in repenting,would there?
I do not see any difference in repenting or not, considering what you seem to believe in. Might as well just do whatever you feel like and after you die, you can feel sorry for it and everything is ok. This is some sort of philosophy that borrows the name of Jesus but otherwise has no similarity to Christianity, as far as I can tell.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 03:16 AM
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Originally posted by MischeviousElf
I don't have an "Opinion" on this. Just the "Facts" of what I experienced.


an experience doesnt necessarily guarantee it is a fact.

my friend was on acid once and couldnt look into the mirror because she saw a monster everytime she did. the experience was very real to her. that doesnt mean it was real.

drugs give people experiences like that because they change the very chemistry of the brain. how he brain actually works is very complex and slight changes can affect how a person thinks. just look at people who are pi polar or chronically depressed.

you dont think the brain would undergo similar changes in a near death experience? if the heart stops and the brain is oxygen deprived, do you think you are just going to blank out? or wouldnt your thinking at that moment go haywire?

im not doubting your experience, i believe you 100% that you are telling the truth. however, i do not believe it is ¨fact¨ that what you experienced is what happens to us when we die.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 04:39 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


to be fair, you could use that very argument against moses and the ten commandments. why didnt god speak directly to all ather than leave it to a select few? man is known to distort and corrupt to meet his own agendas, thats why i dont trust what man teaches in the sense of religion



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 04:58 AM
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Originally posted by enduser
to be fair, you could use that very argument against moses and the ten commandments. why didnt god speak directly to all ather than leave it to a select few? man is known to distort and corrupt to meet his own agendas, thats why i dont trust what man teaches in the sense of religion


while yes, god did reveal the law to moses, the law was available to all. infact all throughout the bible, god reveals something through a prophet or through his son jesus, but the information is available to all.

why god does things this way? i would suspect he understands man´s self justifying atitude



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