Free Knife With Your Hoodie?

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
Out of curiosity, extrapolating on your point about Hungerford &c, what was the "tragedy" that altered things 50 years ago? I'm 40-years-old so obviously I wasn't around 50 years ago, but I'm not aware that Britain had any real gun culture as such. I could appreciate, due to rural areas being bigger &c, there might have been more guns related to that, but I think it's a massive stretch if you're alikening gun culture in America with what you're claiming regarding Britain up until the 1960s.

It's also misleading to compare any such gun culture as the two reasons would have been founded on different principles. I'm forever hearing that American gun ownership is rooted in the idea of protecting themselves from a government (or the Beastly British) as much as their neighbours. Since when has that been part of the British psyche?

I didnt compared UK gun culture to that of the US, all i said was guns used to be a large part of our society and now they are not, from there being practically zero firearm legislation in victorian england to there being practically zero firearms todays.

Well afaik there were no such tragedies at the time, but they have certainly been used since for the same effect. Its true there have been licensing and control laws for well over 50 years, but the trend towards tighter restrictions has without doubt accelerated since WWII. In fact the 1968 Criminal Justice and Firearms Act is the same age as you

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
It "CAN" but it doesn't necessarily mean it is the case though and I think you're aware of it with the way you've used the word. There are different elements to this story rather than a stereotypical Daily Mail knee-jerk reaction.

I think i just put that in there as a sympathetic line to explain why all the gun nuts on this thread are kicking off. Obviously it is a stupid idea, and i cant believe the TKMAXX execs who made this decision didnt know the adverse attention it would get. Or maybe they were totally oblivious to this and just didnt realise, like those idiots who ok'd the sale of kids thongs in woolworths...

[edit on 4-10-2008 by Man_Versus_AntiMan]

now this is just what we need kids running around with more knives, i guess it just was a serious blunder as they have all been taken out of stock, and are no longer available. I hope this doesnt happen again.

Guys its a freakin' Swiss knife. The knife isn't even that sharp, and it isn't designed to stab. Its for survival situations as you can see it has other tools built it. Its not like T K maxx is selling a Japanese Katana with the hoody. If you geeks are so sad about this knife and the boycotts of the hoody why don't you stop the illegal gun trade which is the most common cause of death among "young thugs"

a knife is a knife even if it's not sharp. You can get stabbed by a butter knife. So sharpness doesn't come into it. I agree with you on the gun culture, but i don't think anyone will take notice about this until the police start carrying guns around.

reply to post by Spreadthetruth


I should correct you here as i talked to a police friend about this.

A 3 inch folding knife is perfectly legal to carry, yet only if you have a reason to be carrying it. A police officer can and will arrest you at their discression if they decide you had no reason to carry that knife.

I know it sounds silly but you really can be arrested for carrying any knife without a good reason.

To quote the law

"It is an offence for any person, without lawful authority or good reason, to have with him in a public place, any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except for a folding pocket-knife which has a cutting edge to its blade not exceeding 3 inches." [CJA 1988 section 139(1)]

Note the important part here, "good reason" "public place". Whilst it says "except" a police officer on a bad day can arrest you.

EDIT

I only bring this up because i was almost arrested for carrying a 2 inch pruning knife with me. I had been clipping plants at my fathers allotment and completely forgot i had it in my pocket. It took some serious talking, a phone call and police officers with a brain to avoid being arrested.

[edit on 4-10-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Forget the little penknife, you could have bought a walking stick containing a 20-inch sword!

uk.news.yahoo.com...

Just out of curiosity, when will it become illegal for the people of Great Britain to drink beer from glass containers. I guess with a history as old and glorious as yours, you can't help but know more about the use of bladed weapons. I must admit that I am extremely impressed that your police forces are capable of performing their duties without using firearms.

reply to post by hypervigilant


Well in many clubs they don't use glass containers as there have been so many people being "bottled". the government as yet don't ave any guidelines on it though.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


That's pretty bad - why do you think folks in the UK have such anger problems?.

I always request a cold glass as it makes the brew stay fresh longer. If a bar serves plastic cups - I'll choose to go elsewhere.

Most of the nicer establishments with a more refined class of patronage will serve draft beer in heavy glass pitchers and mugs. The boots and hat crowds have to drink out of aluminum cans, plastic cups or plastic pitchers into plastic mugs that are made to look like glass in the joints they frequent. Most of those dudes are of the "Drill Baby Drill" mentality and full of bluster and not much else. After a belly full of brew they might pull a gun out from behind the seat of their pick up truck that they can't afford to drive and shoot the windows out of someones car because it ain't a pick up truck and was UnAmerican. No one in Texas will ever be accused of taking a knife to a gunfight. My father spent some time in London during World War II and was astounded by all of the brutal fights that he saw while making the rounds of drinking establishments. He also said that when the fights were over someone would buy drinks and all was forgotten. He was impressed. That is one of the reasons I can't see all of the outrage over a small pocket knife.

Originally posted by logicalview
It is illegal to carry a knife in the UK.

You folks clearly need to stop criticizing the US and our diminishing freedoms. We are decades behind Big Brother in the UK. I hope we are never as controlled and scared as some of you appear to be.

I have never seen a knife self animate and walk across a room and stab someone, have any of you?

I have never seen a gun jump out of its case and float across a room and pull its own trigger and shoot someone, have any of you?

It is the person you need to fear, not the tool they choose.

Take their gun, they pick up a knife. Take that knife they pick up a hammer. Take the hammer they pick up a baseball, excuse me Cricket Bat. Take the Cricket Bat they pick up a branch from a tree. Remove all the trees, they pick up rocks. You see were this is headed?

You can not create a law that will protect you from bad people. Instead you need to learn to protect yourselves and make sure that bad people are kept behind bars when caught.

oh well a 2 inch blade ohh let me run away . really who would be scared of a 2 inch blade that is like this long .
if somebody come at me with a little blade like that they would get my size 11 steeltoe somewhere they wouldn't like. i know a moron who tried to cut someone with a folding box cutter the other guy quickly grabbed a 2x4 and beat crap out of him. now when they start putting 38 specials in there coat lining then you got a problem.

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Originally posted by logicalview
It is illegal to carry a knife in the UK.

You folks clearly need to stop criticizing the US and our diminishing freedoms. We are decades behind Big Brother in the UK. I hope we are never as controlled and scared as some of you appear to be.

I have never seen a knife self animate and walk across a room and stab someone, have any of you?

I have never seen a gun jump out of its case and float across a room and pull its own trigger and shoot someone, have any of you?

It is the person you need to fear, not the tool they choose.

Take their gun, they pick up a knife. Take that knife they pick up a hammer. Take the hammer they pick up a baseball, excuse me Cricket Bat. Take the Cricket Bat they pick up a branch from a tree. Remove all the trees, they pick up rocks. You see were this is headed?

You can not create a law that will protect you from bad people. Instead you need to learn to protect yourselves and make sure that bad people are kept behind bars when caught.

Yawwwwwwwwn! Save us this tired old rhetoric when we all know that opportunity makes the thief!

Yes, the criminals do commit the crime, but why give them such an easy method of ending life?

When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail - Mark Twain.

Originally posted by Man_Versus_AntiMan

I didnt compared UK gun culture to that of the US, all i said was guns used to be a large part of our society and now they are not, from there being practically zero firearm legislation in victorian england to there being practically zero firearms todays.

Maybe, maybe not. Firstly, I genuinely doubt that gun culture in this country was particularly a significant one. I can imagine when 'all this was fields when I was a lad' there was more 'rural' usage certainly, and I know from personal experience things like air rifles were more common than they are now. I'll even accept that at least familiarity with guns was more commonplace due to conscription in two World Wars as well as National Service. Whilst it seems an anachronism now, I went to a grammar school with a mandatory cadet force and had contact with guns there.

However, a real gun culture ? I seriously doubt it, at least to the extent that had any real significance to everyday life. Also, from an economic perspective, the Victorian era right up to the 1960s would have precluded a significant demographic from owning a gun of some sorts. It was hardly a domestic priority.

Again, and whilst you've said you're personally not drawing comparisons between the US and Britain, it is true, historically the mindset of the Americans and the British has been a very different one and theirs appears to be rooted in a fear of the 'Beastly British government' and the 'the great outdoors'. None of these has ever been a significant factor in the British psyche.

Unfortunately, I honestly think much of the problems we are having from gang culture now are related to an exposure to an American mentality through gang culture, music, films &c. Reading some of the posts on this board as to the reasoning why Americans have guns, it seems to be based on 'because 'they've' got them'. 'They' being the government, neighbours, ne'er-do-wells: meaning everybody else . That just creates a kind of arms race. I've read reports and comments along the lines of the reason why so many kids in Britain carry knifes now because of that same reason: to feel safer because everyone else has them.

I'm not sure how this line of logic helps anyone in the end.

Well afaik there were no such tragedies at the time, but they have certainly been used since for the same effect. Its true there have been licensing and control laws for well over 50 years, but the trend towards tighter restrictions has without doubt accelerated since WWII. In fact the 1968 Criminal Justice and Firearms Act is the same age as you

I'm aware of this, and that's why I was surprised at the time frame you mentioned. I couldn't see the relevance of "50 years" at all. I'm also wondering how much of the control and restrictions were due to influx from 'trophy' weapons as a result of WWII and 'urban' (as opposed to 'rural') access increased or even appeared out of the blue as there was previously no real gun culture to speak of.

I think i just put that in there as a sympathetic line to explain why all the gun nuts on this thread are kicking off. Obviously it is a stupid idea, and i cant believe the TKMAXX execs who made this decision didnt know the adverse attention it would get. Or maybe they were totally oblivious to this and just didnt realise, like those idiots who ok'd the sale of kids thongs in woolworths...

Is that sarcasm? I can't tell, sorry! I genuinely believe the "idiots" that have sold the likes of thongs, padded bras, pole dancing sets to young kids did actually know what they were doing, it was more a case of would they get away with it. Would the public just see it as 'merely' an extension of little kids wearing t-shirts with slogans like "sexy" written across the front.

And a reply to Bloodcircle: Yeah maybe I got it wrong with no one here requesting a knife ban, but it has been proposed in your country. And furthermore this is not a free knife. The knife is part of the hoodie, the hoodie is NOT free. Besides that no one has even posted a picture of this hoodie to my knowledge. What if this hoodie is meant for fisherman, hunters, hikers, or rockclimbers? Every one is screaming how this is targeted at kids. Was it a spongebob hoodie or something? Last time I check knives weren't allowed in schools and the clothing manufacturers knew that. To me that says this was not intended to be marketed to kids.

Would it be better if they check for ID before selling this hoodie?

Didnt remember to post who wrote this but you were SPOT ON. What if the hoodie is an insulated northern exposure hoodie with a survival knife for rock climbers? Say you get tangled in your lines and are strangling in them... bet you wouldnt be whining about that handy knife in that situation right? Wild animal attacks, kindling scrapping.. knives are a valuable tool when used correctly. I didnt go ape-crap over banning the knives... I was just saying, what do you suggest we do? Stop selling the hoodie with knives cuz something bad COULD happen? As I said once before, maybe we shouldnt sell anything metal or wood.... but instead give baseball players whiffle bats because they COULD possibly beat someone to death with it. Even with knife crime rising in the UK, I dont see the "thugs" of the streets running around with a little 2 inch swiss army knife. While yes, it can be dangerous... you are much better off carrying more menacing. What happens when you pull your little 2 inch army knife on a dude with a 6 inch smith and wesson blade? If these thugs truly stoop so low as to pull a mini survival knife on someone, then let them get their asses kicked when someone busts out a bottle, bat, cane, or anything worth swinging. You would literally have to be totally helpless to not put up some form of self defense against a survival knife.

The main thing a criminal is going to try to do is scare you into giving them your money easily, and without resistance. They KNOW that if you have to even stop to look at the little 2 inch blade and arent scared, things could get rocky.

Just... stop criminalizing everything that COULD be bad. I say punish those who do it to the maximum extent to the law, and those who arent doing wrong, let them have their damn swiss army knife.
-Z-

For a hundred and five bucks you should get a damned machete instead of a dinky Swiss Army Knife!! What a rip off.

@dodgygeeza

I'v said it many times before, but I’ll say it again. What is this country coming to?

whats the UK coming to?
they have cctv cameras everywhere, listening posts infront of every house.
just in a walk to the tube station, you will be watched by 8 different cctv cameras, not to mention the ones in the tube station.
the UK is only 20 years away from being as depicted in 1984.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
oh well a 2 inch blade ohh let me run away . really who would be scared of a 2 inch blade that is like this long .
if somebody come at me with a little blade like that they would get my size 11 steeltoe somewhere they wouldn't like.

Yes, that's great. Good for you! I'm sure you're a fine physical specimen who can handle all the rough and tumble that life throws at you. What about other people, like younger kids? What about when it's not a one-to-one encounter and that "somebody" has a couple of mates? What happens when the person doesn't 'come at you' but just walks past you from behind?

I find all this talk about how a 2 inch blade is hardly a threat absolutely laughable and rooted in some bizarre and suspect machismo. I'm sure Anonymous here is fat enough (or perhaps, rereading the post, layered in dense, gym-toned, knife-proof muscle) for a 2 inch blade to not go anywhere near his vital organs or perhaps he wears a motorbike helmet all the time or maybe has a special 'steeltoe' skull to match his boots?

But what about the rest of us, that weren't the 'cock of our schools' or weren't a member of some Special Forces organisation that we can't really talk about? Those of us with regular organs and arteries fairly close to the surface of our bodies? What do we do?

Originally posted by ZyPHeR
What if the hoodie is an insulated northern exposure hoodie with a survival knife for rock climbers? Say you get tangled in your lines and are strangling in them... bet you wouldnt be whining about that handy knife in that situation right? Wild animal attacks, kindling scrapping.. knives are a valuable tool when used correctly.

Yes, what if? However, you must be talking about another news article entirely. The one in question wasn't "an insulated northern exposure hoodie with a survival knife for rock climbers".

It's very odd this. One minute, this knife is neither 'use nor ornament' due it not being some serrated, foot-long crocodile killing device, then the next it's being suggested that this could be a valuable tool to the outdoors man.

Originally posted by groingrinder
For a hundred and five bucks you should get a damned machete instead of a dinky Swiss Army Knife!! What a rip off.

Those are my sentiments exactly!