Bush signs $700 billion financial bailout bill

reply to post by Maxmars
Another great post,but the minute you allow yourself to think your foe is weak and stupied,even if you can prove it, you are on your way to loseing.Just my opinion.



[edit on 09/27/2008 by Battleline]

Related bill has actually been in the works since March 2007. So was the original bill hijacked by the Senate that the House had already passed? (link below to original) Confused. Did the Senate take a Bill that had already passed the House, effectively short circuiting the normal Bill process, totally unrelated to the bailout, completely change the bill, therefore creating what we now have? The bailout package?

www.govtrack.us...

A bill to provide authority for the Federal Government to purchase and insure certain types of troubled assets for the purposes of providing stability to and preventing disruption in the economy and financial system and protecting taxpayers, to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to provide incentives for energy production and conservation, to extend certain expiring provisions, to provide individual income tax relief, and for other purposes.
-- Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008
-- Energy Improvement and Extension Act of 2008
-- Heartland Disaster Tax Relief Act of 2008
-- Paul Wellstone and Pete Domenici Mental Health Parity and Addiction Equity Act of 2008
-- Tax Extenders and Alternative Minimum Tax Relief Act of 2008

On Oct 1, 2008 at 9:07 AM, Senator Dodd proposes a MAJOR Amendment that basically wipes out the old Bill, basically starts his own bill bypassing the house, and starts the process for what we now have.

Since the Senate has made changes, the House gets a chance to disagree...which is the check on the Senate power for pulling this type of stunt. Which is the vote we had Wed. that was a no? Which is now a yes?

Holy Cow! Going backwards from today.

Oct 3, 2008 1:22 PM House
On Motion to Concur in Senate Amendments: H.R. 1424 Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008
Passed 263-171

Oct 1, 2008 9:22 PM Senate
On Passage - Senate - H. R. 1424 As Amended
Bill Passed 74-25, 1 not voting

Oct 1, 2008 9:07 PM Senate
Dodd Amdt. No. 5685
Amendment Agreed to 74-25, 1 not voting (3/5 required)

Mar 5, 2008 8:03 PM House
On Passage - House - H.R. 1424 Paul Wellstone Mental Health and Addiction Equity Act
Passed 268-148, 13 not voting

Mar 5, 2008 7:56 PM House
On Motion to Recommit with Instructions: H.R. 1424 Paul Wellstone Mental Health and Addiction Equity Act
Failed 196-221, 11 not voting

Mar 5, 2008 7:22 PM House
Table Appeal of the Ruling of the Chair: H.R. 1424 Paul Wellstone Mental Health and Addiction Equity Act
Passed 223-186, 19 not voting

Ok, my brain is now fried, will think on this more. Any opinions? Maybe this had already been discussed and I somehow bypassed the information? Sorry if this information is already known.

[edit on 3-10-2008 typo by amazed]

[edit on 3-10-2008 by amazed]

Sitting over here, across the ocean, we are slowly starting to feel the tidal wave moving from the coast of America, rising as it surrounds us with its cold grip. We are no longer optimistic... no longer amused... not even mocking, we are nervous and anxious.

Few years ago us Danes were told how great the times were. Being offered loans with no downpayment, much like you. A lot of people bought that idea. They probably didn't need too. They probably already were quite some way through paying off the house and car and stereo and last years vacation and... well, you know the story.
We believed, just like some generations before us, that "good times don't come to an end! Just look how great I'm feeling right now!", said the consumer smilingly, holding out his mobile tracking device disguised as an iPhone.
And if you weren't already on that bandwagon you were now sure to be getting on it, because if your neighbour says it, there's bound to be some truth in it. If your sister or brother can afford those gadgets or trips with the kids, why shouldn't you be able to? You probably got swayed by little Timmy's innocent pestering that "Bobby just got that too....!!!" or "Mike and Dan went there this summer mom!!!"
If politicians tells you, on national television even, that everythings good. The economy is guuud... life is guuud (money is life isn't it?.. I mean... isn't it?), then you have no place in not trusting or believing them, do you?
When those smart smart guys, in white collars, expensive suits and ties, newly polished shoes, the hair combed to the side (preferably right to left... that's the way of the succesful man), when they tell you that you can ride this wave safely, because it's never going to end, then who are you, middleclass working man / woman, to say you know better? Don't you know that banks and finance companies are here to help you?! They are here for you sake... not their own! yours... trust them.

Memories become nostalgic, especially the kind that involves people two or three generations before us. They'll say "Oh, I remember the last great depression..." and soon after you could catch yourself thinking, "here we go again" while you comfortingly tell your grandpa that, that was then, these are new times. Things are different now... safe. You... have it under control.

If there's one thing that is sure, then it is, that when it comes to money, you will never have control over money. You will never understand the forces that drive your country, just as I won't understand the forces that drive mine. Money, or economy, was made so the middleclass man or woman can't win in that game, by other means than luck.
Since the time, where economy was taken from the hands of the common man and later taken from the hands of the state that is supposed to protect you, like mine is supposed to protect me, noone has control. Except the few that for whatever reason just wants more and more.
But only as long as you let them!

So this time... will we learn from these mistakes that we helped the "few" make? Will we let ourselves be swayed once again when good times come to rock our daily lives with promises of riches and peace of mind?
Shall we really wait with utilizing our experiences till we're sitting in a moldy armchair going "Oh, I remember the last great depression..."??
Is that what we are? Ants, forced or willingly partaking in a glorious repetition, that does nothing than produce corpses to feed the economic vultures?


I know I feel let down by my government as a whole. Not angry... disappointed. Because I thought that when I put an x on some piece of paper (no electronic voting machines, please...), I want to be able to trust that the person that gets that x is smart enough to not be run around by disgusting, amoral, enemies of the people who in fact are the people in high places within bank cartels, cooperations, and secretive government cells.
My x should signify the immovable moral, objectiveness and respect for and the protection of the little mans wellbeing, no matter what, regardless at what cost.

I don't need to feel nervous and anxious to feel alive... I don't need empty promises and false hope to regain optimism. I need freedom from anothers greed for more, that he doesn't spend anyways. Freedom to think, freedom to speak and freedom to, at all times wihtout restriction, know what is going on within the government that I was part of putting in office! On ALL levels...
I need freedom, not to spend.... but freedom "not to spend".

Freedom is not measure by how much you're allowed to do or own, but by how much is being kept from you. As soon as one thing is being kept secret or unobtainable, you've already lost your freedom.

LOL! "We the People..."

The people didn't agree to do this. I'm not expecting riots, i'm not expecting chaos. I am expecting our average citizen to continue to feel ashamed and financially raped by our government. What an awesome day I tells ya!

Originally posted by drink2forget
I am expecting our average citizen to continue to feel ashamed and financially raped by our government.

Just remember that mindset is a choice, not a prerequisit.

Granted the psychological war is effective but some are able to think outside the programming and stand up to the day we choose to incarnate ourselves into to participate in.

To be a bystander is to be a quitter. I didn't come here to quit, nor do I underestimate the "other" By the same token I hope the "other" has underestimated the Meek.

Please let me share this short story that I have written, to be read to my grandchildren when they are old enough to understand:

It is now midnight. The reprieve from the House never came. The Switch is pulled, and Democracy in America has been extinguished. The Executioners were those that we Entrusted to care for our well-being. As the life wained from our bodies, our lives flashed before us. We thought of our loved ones, the sacrifices that so many made to secure our Freedom, our Founding Fathers, who escaped the Tyranny of Kings and Despots to establish that shining City on the Hill, now replaced by new Kings and Despots, with names such as Bush, Pelosi, Frank, Obama, McCain, and the list goes on. We looked at our children and our grand children, who were forced to watch our execution. With our last dying breath, we called out to them:
I
"Continue the Fight. Do not give in. Unite. Don't let the new rulers divert you with false arguments between two mythical political parties. They are just bread and circuses. We love you children, grand children. We leave you our spirit and our history. Use it wisely. Live to fight another day.
As part of our legacy, we have left you documents, hidden for safe keeping, that will, with proper care and use, allow you to once again light the flame of Democracy and Freedom. Those documents are our Declaration of Independence, and the Constitution of the United States, once revered as sacred, but on a Dark October Friday in 2008, burned by those despots that now control what is left of America. Read them, take their words to heart, and rekindle the flame of freedom and Democracy. It is our gift to you."

I agree with the folks saying the BLUFF should have been CALLED!

The public would have supported calling these liars out.

We don't believe what you are saying...Prove It!

They're lying, you just got bluffed for 850 billion bucks suckahs!!

Just like 9/11 same ole sh*t. Fear is their game caught on yet???

reply to post by ProfEmeritus



I appreciate and understand the sentiments in the letter you have written with future legacy thoughts to your family.

But think about really honestly.

What kind of Patriots has this last time since 1947 been?

We haven't really "stood together" or united for quite awhile, I mean the 60's had thiers moments, as euligized (lol) in forrest gump, but actually stuff like Kent State and Swat Teams and all tracking by spending and GPS, blah, blah, blah...........

How can we expect the next generations to map out a trail when we haven't even left them one.

I am not of course suggesting an arch ee. But do, Go where this is no path and leave a Trail.

What am I doing besides typing words in cyberspace on regular basis?, I live my life as the off the beaten path person that I am,, some laugh, others may take heed in some way. My children definitely aren't brainwashed by the machine, although like most families there are issues!!!

So how do you suppose that story you want to leave for your family has bearing? It sounds like something written by hero in our collective beflief of history.

We as a nation can't even pull it together enough to not put in gas for a day, even though it would be for the most part possible to work around a day to avoid the pump. But we can't even manage that much standing together. We are in a cesspool grasping for a life preserver!

reply to post by interestedalways


We WILL work it out. We have to.


AB1

“Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time, and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out.”

President Andrew Jackson

reply to post by interestedalways

We as a nation can't even pull it together enough to not put in gas for a day, even though it would be for the most part possible to work around a day to avoid the pump. But we can't even manage that much standing together. We are in a cesspool grasping for a life preserver!

I'm sorry you feel that way. It sounds like you have basically have given up hope. Mankind needs hope. It can get us through the darkest of nights. I still believe in the basic good nature of humanity. We need to work together to overcome the forces that would deny us our hope. Giving up is what the despots hope we do. I for one, will not.

Could the people somehow urge the congressman/woman that voted "nay" to break away, and form a party with libertarians and the independents led by Paul/Kucinich to take on these mother-f***ers?

It might be a pipe dream, but trying to think something positive...

So I'm watching CNN hoping someone would tell me half of the truth, and by god I may have found someone..

I heard Lou Dobbs talking on CNN, calling out Warren Buffet, etc. Seems like he is on the attack, but will he go the whole way and call out the whole Fed/IRS system? Will people like this maybe come forward?

I heard a semi-local consevative radio host, that is usually more along the neo-con line, talking illy of the Federal Reserve...

Again, maybe a pipe dream, but again, hope?

Don't know what I can do, I am thinking about creating a document that ties the income tax, to the federal reserve, Executive Order 11110, globalism, etc,. Post it here, maybe people can help with it?

Hand out to people I know, stuff in mailboxes, at malls, etc, hopefully a good one that might sway people, and then maybe encourage them to watch freedom to fascism and movies like that.

Even if only a few people see my point, maybe they can influence a few more... Maybe a lot of them will, who knows.

Unless people realize what is going on, which most don't, what can you really do?

reply to post by Leo Strauss


this is the best post i;ve read so far... starred & flagged.
why is it, there has been NO evidence, proof, whatever showing a) what the problem EXACTLY is, b) what happens if its not passed, and c) evidence that if it is passed, it'll fix everything.

I still am waiting for someone to SHOW me what happened between a couple weeks ago when Bush was telling us our economy is strong, and this week when if we don't hand over $700B with no questions asked, there will be f'n armageddon.

you guys should watch this video!!! OMG

Originally posted by Thebudweiserstuntman
What I don't get is why did they go to vote again after it failed the first time? Is that how it works? Keep voting till it goes your way? best out of three...no, wait five....erm ten....double or quits...s *flips coin* no..wait...tails

that's what i was gonna say! seriously, someone respond to this question that knows more about this, i am not very sharp on economic policy WHATSOEVER; isn't it pretty criminal to do this?????

Originally posted by minniesoda
www.youtube.com...
No Bailout ! "They Will Kill You !
[edit on 3-10-2008 by minniesoda]

[edit on 3-10-2008 by minniesoda]

So many times in the last few years, I have wished my hero Bob Lee
Swagger would magically materialize from the page to real life and take aim.
But alas, Bob Lee is a fictional character.

Oh well, I can dream, can't I?

The text of the bill can be found at:
Taxpayer.net

"The plan — initially a three-page request from the Bush administration for unlimited power to use $700 billion any way it saw fit to stabilize markets — swelled to more than 450 pages as negotiators added restrictions for the administration and sweeteners for anxious members of Congress.

Lawmakers added greater supervision over the $700 billion — including a process where Congress could vote to block half the money — measures to protect taxpayers, and steps to crack down on "golden parachutes" for corporate executives whose companies benefit from the bailout."
Yahoo.com

The real problem is that Congress took no testimony from economists before enacting the legislation. It's a grab bag of sweeteners and giveaways. If there is any, the "bright side of the dark side" is that there is some oversight over Paulson.

It has been a trip to see a three (3) page bill turn into a 451 page bill in a week. That's a lot of drafting to do in such a trim time period.

There was never any doubt that a financial rescue package in some form would be enacted. A well-drafted law was our best hope. We received something short of that.

The PAC's have clearly adversely influenced decision making in Washington, and need to be made illegal. PAC's act for private, not public interests. PAC's grease the political wheels that compromise our Country.

Reputable economists never were heard on this plan. Usually, when dealing with the economy, economists' views should be given great weight and deference. Economists not called upon to weigh in at all? Really?

We may safely assume that economists are to charter a PAC to be heard regarding vital American economic interests.

The hype and hysteria generated by the media and our leaders have fueled insecurity in an already nervous market. Where was the projected stock market gain on the news of the government bailout? Have we blown our resources on the wrong targets? What will be our government’s response if it doesn’t work out? These questions may soon be answered.

What is apparent is that Congress and the Bush administration have pushed through a complex law. Badly drafted complex laws are generally full of loopholes. Our government has done so in the face of intense public opposition.

Some legislators have said that they don't care if they are not reelected! (Being how this law is for our good and all, of course). We have been had.

What is the solution? Take notes as to whom signed off on the package and vote against them in the coming election. Clean house in a bipartisan manner, voting independently rather than along party lines. Simply speaking, this is the appropriate way to manifest the will of the people.

This bill is extolled by the average media. We must all gauge any success of the law by the immediate and interim effects on our economy.

As we go our way, will we able to now obtain student, small business or consumer loans? How will the markets react? We are compelled to wait and see. These rather than tortured apologies by the media and our elected officials will tell.

Originally posted by interestedalways
reply to post by ProfEmeritus

 

I appreciate and understand the sentiments in the letter you have written with future legacy thoughts to your family.

But think about really honestly.

What kind of Patriots has this last time since 1947 been?

We haven't really "stood together" or united for quite awhile, I mean the 60's had thiers moments, as euligized (lol) in forrest gump, but actually stuff like Kent State and Swat Teams and all tracking by spending and GPS, blah, blah, blah...........

How can we expect the next generations to map out a trail when we haven't even left them one.

I am not of course suggesting an arch ee. But do, Go where this is no path and leave a Trail.

What am I doing besides typing words in cyberspace on regular basis?, I live my life as the off the beaten path person that I am,, some laugh, others may take heed in some way. My children definitely aren't brainwashed by the machine, although like most families there are issues!!!

So how do you suppose that story you want to leave for your family has bearing? It sounds like something written by hero in our collective beflief of history.

We as a nation can't even pull it together enough to not put in gas for a day, even though it would be for the most part possible to work around a day to avoid the pump. But we can't even manage that much standing together. We are in a cesspool grasping for a life preserver!

yes yes yes YES! i am only 27 years old but i think i'm a born again idealist. in this day and age (the information age) we should be able to rally together so much stronger than my parents did in the 60's; just imagine if they had internet forums and real time chat with the whole world back then, i truly believe the movement would have been more successful. and before anyone says something to the effect of "hey, they'd of probably been too stoned or drunk on psychadelics and what have you to use a computer" just don't. it doesn't help and it just is basicly an irresponsible statement. Those stoned people managed to actually get national attention on their ideals and dreams without the technology we fail to do anything with. remind yourself of that, we are stoned, or tripping on technology and disinfo. my child must be prepared for inheriting a country that couldn't give 2 sh@#s less for him, and he will have to cope somehow. i don't offer the answers, but i can point out some questions for him to think about. the american dream isn't dead, but by god it is on life support, and they are pulling plugs everyday. I am adding u as a friends because you said exactly what was in my heart. we need more love and compassion for eachother.

I know many members here see my post and are thinking "oh great, here he comes to parade the success of the bill" but I'm not. I am posting to say that something is wrong. It has not to do with the bill itself. Frankly I think it was too little too late and the damage will already be done by the time the treasury starts acting on its new power.

The problem is government. They have made their choice clear. This is no longer a government of representation but parentism. They aren't representing the people anymore, they are being the parents, and doing what they think is the right thing. THAT is a scary thing.

I have been arguing for the bill the past week or two. That does not mean I think congress should be passing legislation that the majority is against. This is suppose to be a representative government. If the people want a certain bill to fail, it should fail, even if it is the wrong choice, and could lead to an economic collapse.

I am not bothered by the bill. The bill will be forgotten in time, that I am sure of. What bothers me is how clear the government has made it that this is no longer a representative government, but a government that views its citizens as children. Children that, even when they clearly object, ultimate aren't the ones who get to decide. THAT is what bothers me.

reply to post by The Revealer




THANK you !

Not being privy to much US media coverage of actual news re: this abominable Bill, it has done me a world of good to listen to this man.

The audience clapped, so guess it's safe to assume that at least some were in support of his sentiments.

Were any of them US congressmen/women ?


Frankly, I would enjoy seeing video coverage of George Bush and what are they called ... shabas goy ... being driven around the United States on flatbed trucks, so that the American people are provided the opportunity to make their feelings felt. And I do believe Congress should be supplying the rotten fruit and vegetables for the occasion, to every hamlet, towship and city.

Thank you again, TheRevealer. The video you've supplied shows there's at least one honest politician in the United States