Was Hell just a rubbish tip?

reply to post by miriam0566


Miriam thanks for the reply-I have to say I´m disinclined to agree with your opinions but I appreciate the input nonetheless.
Is it not fair to say that some religious folk´s claims that this misrepresentation is a just a ´coincedence´ has more to do with people obstinately refuting the use of reason (and instead just clinging onto preconceived,conditioned responses) rather than any impartial regard for objective truth?



[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

BBC's 'In Our Time' did a good show that touched on 'Hell as a rubbish tip' a couple of years ago.

The History of Hell

I'd recommend the 'In Our Time' series to anyone as it covers a great series of topics.

[edit on 4-10-2008 by Merriman Weir]

Originally posted by miriam0566
yes, particularly a babylon king.
the word lucifer itself is latin and wasnt translated and also is not found in the original text. the hebrew word for morning star also happens to be the name of a god in babylon who the king claimed to be incarnate.
but some people still insist on making it satan´s name.

News to me. I guess I missed that somehow. I did not know He claimed to be a particular god. That would be a good reason for why Isaiah would use that comparison.
In the Jewish Encyclopedia, I found something that seems to back up your statement. It comes from the Rabbinical writings.

Nebuchadnezzar, moreover, not only was a cosmocrat, ruling all the earth...
...He was so greatly feared that as long as he was alive no one dared laugh; and when he went down to hell the inmates trembled, asking themselves whether he would rule them also. In his arrogance he considered himself to be a god, and spoke of making a cloud in order to enthrone himself like God on high; but a heavenly voice cried to him: "O thou miscreant, son of a miscreant, and grandson of the miscreant Nimrod! Man lives seventy years, or at most eighty. The distance from the earth to heaven measures 500 years; the thickness of heaven measures as much; and not less the distance from one heaven to the other"

Hmmm? so is God's throne a minimum of 1500 light years away?


[edit on 4-10-2008 by jmdewey60]

remember too that god humbled him for his arrogance. for seven years he lived like an animal

Interesting topic. I agree with the main points so far.

It is amazing what a bad translation from Greek (which is an incredibly literal language) can do.

Here's another tidbit that could be right or wrong (correct me if it is wrong): Most modern Christians tend to believe that when a loved one dies, they will be watching them from Heaven, or at the very least will actually go to Heaven immediately.

If you look at a literal translation of the Greek bible, it seems to tell us that an individual will be in nothingness, or without consciousness until the return of Christ (or the rapture as some would have it). This has also been mistranslated into supporting the idea of Hell.

In reality (well, some peoples reality anyway), God is still preparing Heaven, and anyone who has died between Abel and this very moment is simply in a sort of suspended nothingness until called back. It will seem as no time at all though, for the individual.

Interesting how the church has used Hell as a tool of fear, when in all Christian theology it does not exist in its classic form at all. There IS, however, mention of a place called Tartarus, in which God supposedly sealed Satan. People do not go there after death, though.

All of this is of course only applicable if you are of the Christian variety. Metaphysics does not seem to support this theory, as individuals have discovered quite a different story while projecting into Astral realms and further.

Interesting, though, is the fact that many report Angelic beings and a central God like figure (although residing in a realm as of yet unreachable through projection).

Take your pick. Either way, you should not have to fear an eternal damnation

[edit on 4-10-2008 by MyrTheSeeker]

reply to post by MyrTheSeeker


MTS Good post,some interesting info there.
As for your comments about the threat of ´eternal damnation´,I couldn´t agree more.
Down the years,maybe the church (and all the other abrahamic sects) have just been using this ghastly concept as a ´mechanism to control the masses´ and nothing else.
I´ve always liked this quote:
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,by the wise as false and by the rulers as useful."
Some other quotes here:
www.quotegarden.com...
Cheers Karl

i thought it best to combine all the various related words into one intergrated whole, to see if it made more sense. my theory is, hell is a star gate, a wormhole, the bottomless pit and abyss of scripture, and that in at least one instance, the other end of the gate journey was so far away from civilization of any kind, on the other side of the universe, it was considered "outer darkness," (perhaps in some remote region where there's no starlight in the vicinity?)

eventually, when the gates were buried following the flood and the tower of babel fiasco, and the beings who had been responsible for messing up the genomes of our planets sent into the gate, the thing became a legend and was symbollized as a place where bad things are put, like garbage

[edit on 4-10-2008 by undo]

reply to post by karl 12



Thanks for the support. Excellent quote! Although, I am not sure that all wise men abandon religion all together. It seems that most extremely wise people abondon religion for a time, but end up eeking back into some form as they continue to grow. I will say that they almost absolutely abandon "organized religion". I guess after a while, and tons of searching for the truth, reality and faith sort of lose their classical boundaries.

On an aside, I feel like science and metaphysics are coming closer together every day. After all, much of what is in the realm of science today, was once only found in religious sermons and the occult.

Here is another snippet that clarifies the classic Hell misunderstanding:

Many Christian denominations will tell you that when Jesus returns all non-believers will live in toment for eternity. Well the literal translation tells us that this torment will last for Aeon of Aeons or something of that nature which was mistranslated to mean Ever and Ever (hence eternity). The torment is apparently all of the war and stife that will accompany the end times, for two Aeons (which are finite periods of time) -- after which, Jesus will rule for a while in a harmonius world.

Might be some flaws there, as I am going off of memory; but the general idea is correct.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
BBC's 'In Our Time' did a good show that touched on 'Hell as a rubbish tip' a couple of years ago.

The History of Hell

I'd recommend the 'In Our Time' series to anyone as it covers a great series of topics.

[edit on 4-10-2008 by Merriman Weir]

MW Thanks for the link-will certainly be listening to that one when I get a chance-looks very interesting
Cheers Karl

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

reply to post by MyrTheSeeker


MTS I am of course just speaking for myself here but I completely agree with your comments about certain people feeling the need to steer away from ´organised religion´ which IMHO is man made and often contradictory (and sometimes dangerously sociopathic).
I´m sure many folks will agree that benevolence,empathy,compassion and kindness is far more powerfull than malevolence,malice,vindictiveness and cruelty but I don´t need a organised religious cult/sect to tell me that (´Moral integrity is a human attribute and not a religious one´ and all that).
As for some type of all encompassing deity which created the entire universe (including our own truly insignificant galaxy/planet),if there is one then He/She/It/They endowed us with the power of reason and rational freethinking-it just doesn´t add up that we would then be expected to forgoe these values and just mindlessly/unquestioningly beleive other people´s opinions on the subject.
Regarding the original post I think its very possible that hell was just a rubbish tip and there are that many mistranslations/misconceptions/contradictions in the abrahamic texts that it
is by far the likelier explanation.
Cheers Karl

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

reply to post by karl 12



OH I am at work so not much time to respond...just wanted to look in here and have a quick read. Do like the analogy though... that would be hell to some people!

Imagine living in a lovely place then oops off to the dump you go...

LOL
love it, cheers

even more interesting to me is the ties of the Jehova Witnesses to the Masons. Yep! Nevertheless, just like with all bait and switch campaigns, I must agree; there is not hell. Sheol or whatever you call it was a trash heap. But it goes way beyond this folks. The scam is vast. In fact it's a whole lot bigger than the meaning of "hell".

Originally posted by skyshow
even more interesting to me is the ties of the Jehova Witnesses to the Masons. Yep!

huh? what does that have to do with anything?