Chi

I would personally like to thank everyone who has responded with suggestions, comments, and links...star for everyone

Concerning his attitude...I repeatidly hear from family members concerning his attitude and lack of respect, but he has always been respectful towards me and my wife, so I can only go with that. So in order to help him out, his payment for learning is to keep his grades up...right now they are a B-C average, but they have to be improved. Aside from that, he has to help his mother out at her house since he has gotten somewhat lazy from all the video games, and learn to talk his problems out instead of lashing out (from what I've heard).

One thing I have been doing is teaching some of the philosophy and history of martial arts, which often leads into confusion for him. Perhaps I am going about this the wrong way and should stick to how I first started out - 3 hour workout everyday. My father was strict, and when it came to questions, he would rarely answer until a later time...something I was first wanting to be pretty open about since my cousin is fairly weak-minded, but I might have to change. Right now we are only planning on 3 days a week...I might just make him research and write papers on stuff.

I have not taught in several years, but it's like riding a bike. After my father passed away I disbanded his class and moved back here to TN. All that is around here is Taekwando for kids, and even they are like $80/month. My cousin has no money, but I am not trying to run a business with this. Mainly not teach anyone but family even though I could make a lot of money, this is sacred to me...I am kinda proud to pick and choose who I teach

I am reading/researching the links and info you guys/girls have provided and they are much appreciated...Thanks

Originally posted by Taledus
I would personally like to thank everyone who has responded with suggestions, comments, and links...star for everyone

I am reading/researching the links and info you guys/girls have provided and they are much appreciated...Thanks

Good Luck in your teaching! I know that you will do fine and help out alot of people. Just keep at it for YOU... and teach that as well. I wouldn't sweat the Chi part of it - that will come in time. Martial Arts are a 'selfish' (done for your own reasons - no-one else) and personal thing...
A never ending journey...

You have MusashiMusashi as your avatar - The Book of Five Rngs is all about patients and the code of the Warrior.
Be strong and Never Surrender!

I picked up the book T'ai Chi classics: translated by Waysun Liao. Its a brown/yellow coloured book. Its GREAT. Pick it up if you can. It has a good explanation of a few things.

It talks about condensed breathing, using visualisation or imagination to take that awareness of chi and convert it to jing, higher power. In the back of the book it shows different moves. The beginning of the book talks about the history, suppression and secrets that have been passed down. The book talks about how many people are taught the movements yet no emphasis on the actual feeling of energy, and rather this was a popular technique that was tought to chinese rulers at the time because the instructors didn't want the power to fall into the wrong hands.

I thought it was pretty interesting for that. It also has some good diagrams for you to understand the flow and movements of energies.

More then anything I thought it was useful because of the simplistic way of describing it, very practical like I would explain it if I had to. Sort of like... imagine this:... then eventually you won't have to imagine it, because you will feel it.


I agree with what the person said about stand like a tree for 5 minutes, then they'd get the understanding.

Or even a less stressful one for beginners and those who doubt its existence.. tell him to focus his attention to his hands as he walks. This is gets a good sense for me.

I used to just think.. oh you know, this is blood pooling in my fingers, and it is and it isnt, its like the blood carries the chi or it is a physical expression of the energy... anyways.. he'll get that feeling and he'll learn to sense it more. Even trying to feel something or interact with something telekinetically using the hands will increase this awareness. In time he'll start to feel those little sparks as this book would call it, the conversion of chi into higher frequency jing.

If I had to give any suggestions for it to work its..acceptance into his mindset..if he doesn't meditate, he should start, and start to try and get a bigger grasp of the flow of nature and work his mind around some common philosophies and to work on some of his own. From there, i think he would have the understanding or at least a small belief structure to try and give it a shot.

From there.. i would say, create a chi/psi wheel.. and even try and feel it /affect it with his hands. The fact that its paper doesnt help relieve much doubt, but he'll see... its an easy begginer one, and he'll see how easy it is to affect that thing with the chi in his hands or even 10 feet away. Its easy enough that it will help open these doors of acceptance. It worked for me, i could hardly believe it the first time.

But yeah, i think its just as important to understand how these things work. I'd recommend some certain reading to him.

Go break a stack of bricks and tell him, if you want me to teach you to do this, read this, this and this, or give me one good reason why you're interested in learning this.

Hope that was of some help.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by CavemanDD]

And as a teenager I used to be a little @ $$ shat as well. I hated the world, thought it was upside down and wanted to see the structure of society burn.

I just drank away my anger, laughed it away, got into some trouble here and there until one moment of deja vu, followed by several others. I won't go over the pattern of events but.. meditation and philosophies others have taught to me really turned my life around. Well they really just opened the door, showed me that is was worth trying to figure out and fix.

It could be just what he needs. My mindset had an almost inversed change, his might as well.

As well yes... meditation would be a good start for him, if he's working with chi, he'll need to work on focus and mental discipline.

A good and relatively easy meditation/exercise is lying wuji.
You just lie in wuji flat on your back but do not move or twitch or scratch, nothing. It very chi and body awareness type of thing, really cool.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by cindymars]

reply to post by cindymars


hell yeah. Just lying on your back and feeling the flow. You can start to play around with even just lying there.

reply to post by CavemanDD


So you know this? Its wild huh?
It still amazes me.

Another way os feeling Wei Chi Fields is to close your eyes and walk toward someone slowly with your hands extended until you feel their wei chi feilds.

A really neat trick that you can teach children too is to play with the stream of energy coming from the chakras in our hands. It's really easy...we've all done it...and is more marked when the skin is wet, like in the bath. Try it and you will find that you can create a ball or cushion of energy that you can feel very easily, and it's a great way to illustrate vital energy, and how to move it.

Cait

reply to post by cindymars


hell yeah. Actually I don't like being around a lot of people unless I am at peak energy, strange people that is. I guess I got it developed enough that its as good as it is bad, but the bad serves as a good warning.

What I mean is essentially, i can feel someone elses own stabilities when they walk into my small area of awareness. I can usually feel it right in my chakras or all over, it depends on the person. Mostly I find its right at the dan tien or sacral.. Its there..lack of energy or negative emotions, sometimes I feel it right in the heart. On the subway I tried giving energy to this one guy next to me because he just felt..screwed up, and i didnt like what it was doing to me either.

The subway or any public transportation can be terrible. This one time I was standing right by the door anxiously and didn't know if I was gunna make it. It was like a big power drain, i was yawning every 5 seconds too, it was screwed up.

Yeah, i can feel other people alright, some are pleasant, and some are terrible.. i learned to block it out thought. As they walk by I either tell myself "I percieve only loving energies".. or i tell myself "nothing gets in, nothing goes out"... If I have the energy that day, i try to blast it out around me and try to fix these people.

I think I can even feel... density of people too. I was feeling that field around people, just standing next to them, comparing the feelings in contrast to their "weight". You can feel so much if you look for it.

One day this lady was staring at my tattoo on the subway and it actually felt like I could feel something in that spot. I like to try and grab peoples attention too.. Its interesting when you stare at people walking by, trying to see if they will catch on.. some people will meet eyes with you immediately or they won't notice... but when they do meet eyes, it will be automatic, not llike they pan their eyes... like locked on.

Theres lot of things you can do.


But yeah, it has its downfalls if you don't know how to deal with it. I find it impossible some days. The city is full of scrambling energies.


Feeling people... feeling your fingers walking, standing like a tree with your knees arched. I find after standing, or lying down, or sitting.. if you raise your arms slowly, you will feel a nice feeling surge rush through them.

its interesting that in qi-gong or tai chi they tell you to arch your legs, and this has a feeling similar to muscle stress. They will tell you its removing blockages in your legs, and in time it will be relaxing. I have no doubt this is how it is but I will explain why I believe this to be so.

If you want to be strong... you can either gain more muscle, or make your current muscle more fit.

The bigger muscle will have more power, but waste lots of energy... it will probably tire really fast. This is because it may not be as fit.. and since when your building muscle, your destroying it and regrowing it.. it seems to me like it would be an un-organised pattern, thus there is more resistance, and energy is lost. If its fit.. it doesn't grow, but the ability to work longer increases. I would attribute this to efficiency.. perhaps the muscle organises itself to adapt, in a more perfect structure.

So therefore.. this qi-gong in your legs thing, i think is essentially making your legs fit, or structured properly so that no strain is felt.


I saw a guy on the subway once, I just knew he was a martial artist or something. He had such energy flowing off him. I was looking at him and its like his energy was twice as fast or abundant then others.. enough to make it stand out as above "normal". I never really notice such a difference in energy of people as I assume they are similar in some respect. Only one other time I saw a person with this energy speed.

But yeah, point of the story, the guy also on the subway was skinny, but his muscles looked really really fit, like bruce lee fit.

To increase chi awareness, perhaps the fitter the better. It would make sense.

I'm trying not to get off topic here, this is about what this guy can teach his cousin.

Wow...even more great thoughts!

And even though the initial post was about explaining Chi to my cousin, this has evolved in great insights from everyone!

To put it bluntly, everyone understands that thier body has energy...some associate this with will power, some with Chi/Qi/Ji, and some with the Force (think Star Wars). But it is suprising at the different philosophy's behind it...the varying history and methods. It is interresting nonetheless. I am grateful this thread has remained positive and neutral.

@ dhunter - I should have kept with it no matter what, but it seems life got in the way. Now though I am able to dedicate more time towards getting back into the game. And the avatar (which I have yet to get around to resizing) is from the book by Eiji Yoshikawa...it's about Musashi's life and has been the greatest book I have ever read about someone's life. But I have also read the Book of Five Rings...I actually keep a copy of it as well as Sun Tzu at my desk.

@ cindymars - yet another aspect I have yet to hear about...I am definately checking out the lying wuji and wei chi fields.

@ caitlinfae - Unfortunately chakras are something very few people around here know about...I am from redneck-ville...anything associated with "energy" or something metaphysical people are too lazy to read about, is often met with the phrase: "Thats the devil's work." This has made it difficult in some of the advanced explanations I can offer, but I doubt he would understand right now anyways.

@ CavemanDD - I am going to need to look up the chi/psi wheel...I've never heard of one. But you did remind me of something...the meditation. Being just him and I, I did just an informal class of a few stretches, and some basic stuff after our hour of me in attempt to explain the philosophy and science behind martial arts. I guess I just have so much to teach I am finding hard to know when to stop...perhaps it is withdraws from instructing students. I had totally neglected the meditation that I did all the time at the start and end of classes...pulling out really old class notes now.

I have said not nearly half of what I have wanted to say to less than most of you that have offered great input. I am also ecstatic that I actually started a post on a topic that has gotten more than 4 replies. But I am grateful for the insight, varying philosophy's, and personal stories you guys have shared. I have read a bit on some of the aspects and links mentioned, but mostly I have been going through and adding stuff to my bookmarks so as to have a reference because too much info at once is overwhelming and I can easily forget about something that should have probably had a lot more attention paid to it.

One thing to people that have not practiced or studdied Chi - I pulled up a link from google that went to a Youtube video. The guys are teaching people about Iron Palm techniques that they sell off as using Chi...while I have not studdied what they are teaching, I do know that stacking 5 bricks on top of each other with no spacers and hitting them to have them break, is more physics than Chi. This is a trick my father taught me about how to tell when people are fakeing...he did the same thing with 10 bricks, though he didn't need a towel to protect his hands. Just a warning for those who are trying to learn from the net or books...it is no replacement for a qualified instructor.

Taledus, can you share some of your oppinions and experiences with chi? I'd like to hear from a martial artist's point of view. I never took any martial arts as a kid, I always wanted to though. For a few years I've done some reading and have become interested in the ninja. I want to learn ninjutsu but it seems kind of advanced for someone with no prior training. I imagine when the timing is right, it will happen.

Anyways, i'm interested in what martial artists think of chi, how they cultivate it and use it.

I'm interested to know how it goes with your cousin as well.

Well, crap!

Today is a sad day...I found out that on Friday there was a kid at the school who stepped on my cousin's shoes...literally. Not to mention that this kid was mentally handicapped. My cousin, in all his grand knowledge, decided he would get up out of his chair, go over to the handicapped child, and shove him backwards as hard as he could. This was exactly why I was wanting to teach him so that he would not travel down that path and have the knowledge that sometimes it really is an accident and often not even worth the time. However, the rules were simple, and he broke them...not to mention my aunt said that he could no longer train.

So now I have no students. I have thought about starting to teach to the public, but this is something I have yet to decide on especially with what just happened.

@ CavemanDD - No problem

Breaking bricks is easy...it's the ability to affect something without even touching it that is the hard part. It is often harder to understand the physics behind what is real and what is a show.

Like I said previously, stacking bricks with no spacers uses momentum to break the bricks, and often not all of them...usually one or two at the bottom of the stack. Spacers help keep the initial momentum from the top brick reaching through to the rest of them. Most people will work with pennies as spacers then work thier way up to 1/4" - 1/2" pieces of wood in between. However, often you will see guys hitting a stack with all thier might in order to break anything.

My father showed me the trick with stacking 10 bricks atop one another with no spacers...first he broke a set, then I did. It was easy. However, it took me forever to figure out what he was doing when he was able to break a stack of 20 with 1/2" spacers in between with hardly any effort. I tried it for years. I guess he waited for me to quit asking him about it before he decided to explain in his best words.

Now, with my statement about affecting something without touching it...there yet is another trick. You probably know that there are pressure points all over the body. You can take a piece of paper 2" by 3" and fold it long ways. Then open it up to a 90 degree angle and stand it up, inside facing you. You can then take your index and middle fingers and touch pressure points on your face, then point on the inside center of the paper and watch it fall over. It may take a few tries, but with some time you should be able to knock it down...doing it too much will give you a bad headache. Moving in on the paper fast will knock it down anyways because of the wind...so try moving in slow on it. I cannot explain this better, nor the stuff that makes this happen...showing someone will probably be met with "you're blowing it down". I believe this is done with nerves, but I am unsure.

Now to understanding how the energy works so that you can do this without touching the points on your face, and just forcing the energy through your fingers, is a bit more difficult...it takes a lot of visualization and breathing. This is where it is good to know how to meditate. So now you know what you want to do...knock down the paper. But that is all you can know...clearing your mind of everything else...not thinking about baby's momma, or whats for dinner will help out a lot. Then you have to visualize the energy and wind in and around your body coming together as one...flowing in your nose, moving through your stomache, back up and out your mouth, down the front and sides of your body, around and up the back coming over your head back in your nose. There are a lot of 2-D diagrams of this, but this is a 3-D fundamental that needs to be understood.

Then, no more visualization, no thinking, just doing...you have to push the now combined energy/wind through your fingers that are going to knock down the paper. Sometimes this can be a very lenghty process, and sometimes it will not work at all if there is too much stressful stuff you are currently dealing with and cannot get out of your presence.

That in a nutshell (a long nutshell) is the best way I can explain right now. It is similar to the way I was first introduced to how Chi can work, but not exactly what it is...that took a few more years, but is well worth the research.

But all of that is just some semi-psudo explanation that does not really pertain to the martial arts...this is where it takes years of understanding the pressure points on the human body. In an altercation, you must know the location of your opponents pressure points. You must be able to move quickly, block effectively, and strike fast so as to put him down long enough to get away. Often it is nearly impossible to hit a pressure point the size of a pellet with all that is going on...this is where the years of practicing come into play, and more often than not it is better to have someone to train with. Now keeping all this in mind, do all of this while moving the wind-energy through your fingers to the point you wish to affect. This is where all the years of meditation come in handy as a way to quicky be able to let everything go and not let your nerves or adrenaline get the best of you.

A lot to take in? Not really...it just takes understanding what they are going to do to you, and that you want to get away...nothing else. You don't want to strike and keep beating someone, your main purpose is to get away. In all actuality there is nothing to prove. I have noticed that often younger people will not be able to control the adrenaline running through thier body at the time of an altercation, then not understand why everything they have been practicing for years does not work...most of the time they move on because they are disappointed.

I hope this helps understand how I apply Chi to the martial arts. But others may take a different approach to the entire aspect. This was really how I was trying to explain things to my cousin. He's 14 and I guess not mentally mature enough to understand...now with what happened, he never will be. Sorry for the lengthy reply, but I could not find anything to edit out to make it shorter.

reply to post by Taledus


That was brilliant, thanks. I agree with the affecting something without touching it. Physicality has limitation, the mind does not. This tai chi book I have makes that quite clear, that striking from a distance of 10 feet or 1 inch makes no difference with chi, its not about force so much as will, and the flow.

I will have to try your paper technique. I focus a lot on circulating chi through my hands but lately i've taken some advice by trying not to do even that.. So that effectively, some people are able to train themselves to affect things without seeing them, or being near them at all. To just FEEL them.

Thats one thing that I really think about.. the idea of exerting force, or "pushing" something using an energy. It seems limiting. I am still learning however. I have had glimpses of the future which have given me concepts to try in the past, things to aim for. If it wasn't for glimpses of the future, I don't know if I would ever have started meditation. But yeah, what I'm trying to get to.. in several of these "views".. I was affecting things with chi.. I felt the chi flow through my hand, but not necessarily INTO the object, I remember that specifically, that it was more like I was using the chi in the object, not affecting it with my chi.. using ITS chi.. I could feel objects as if they were my own hands and feet, moving them was as easy as moving fingers.

However.. there is much to gained by chi awareness and controlling its flow, to this, i agree, and continue to persue. I am eager to learn as much as I can, and teach as much as I can.

Thank you for your explanation, i'm sure you'd make a good teacher. I hope a few incidents haven't discouraged you. There is no greater joy to me then imparting knowledge to others, and bringing that knowledge with the care and patience. The greatest moments are when you begin to penetrate that stubborness, its like they are waves crashing off you, and you are the rocks. You just need to stay strong.

Your cousin made an immature choice, but I believe all can be redeemed, and all can be trained. If one is considered not responsible enough for wisdom, how will they ever gain the wisdom that cultivates that new sense of responsibility?

I don't believe there are any bad people, just degrees of self-awareness.

To some people, the knowledge you have might seem like quantum physics, when really they need to first get a firm grasp of basic math.

You start small, real small. We can plant seeds, its up to others to nurture it.

In your cousins situation, perhaps you can toss him a tiny seed and see where it goes. He's at an age of great growth, perhaps he can grow into something of a marvel, its not too late.

Those who fear wisdom fear responsibility, and detachment of the old ways they cling to. I can't help but feel responsible to pass on the wisdom, and it seems you feel the same. I hope you don't give up. We need more patient teachers, more steady rocks.

Originally posted by CavemanDD
reply to post by Taledus

 

...that striking from a distance of 10 feet or 1 inch makes no difference with chi, its not about force so much as will, and the flow.

I have always attributed a lot of martial arts and Chi to physics. Being such, I am positive someone can do it, but have never actually witnessed someone making even a thin strip of paper mover from anymore than 1"...even then it takes time. The most I have been successful with is 1/2". Particularly I believe this is because Chi is just like light and sound, where it travels in a rotating wave pattern...think of a sine wave, but in 3-D...and it starts off small, then breaks up as it gets larger the further away it gets. The problem is I have always wanted to test this theory out somehow, but do not have the knowledge or equipment to run this as an experiment.

And I thought about the paper trick with the pressure points...beginners might want to make it thinner, perhaps 1/2" x 2" to 3". This will give 1/4" sides when folded, and make it a bit easier. And initially when you touch the points on your face it will have to be with some pressure...I don't exactly know what this does other than give you a headache if you do it repeatidly like 10 times or so. But it gets people ecstatic when they are able to accomplish this and they know that they did not knock it down with thier breath.

I was affecting things with chi.. I felt the chi flow through my hand, but not necessarily INTO the object..

What has worked for me is that the object is not there except in your mind...such as the paper. You don't want to push into the folds of the paper, but through them as they aren't there. The folds act as walls to block the energy from going past, but it does not take much to knock it down anyways.

Off the subject - Saturday when going out with my wife, I noticed her watch sitting in the console not moving. I asked her if she had run the battery down again and she told me that it had only been in there a few days before she made it quit...I didn't know she had still been buying batteries every week. So I picked it up and it began to tick...kinda weird. I gave it to her and it stopped again, so I took it from her and again it began to start working. She asked me how is that possible and the only thing I could come up with is we (her and I) are both halves to each others equation. She is lacking energy, so her body drains whatever it can, while I am exerting more than I need. I don't understand it fully, but it makes sense to me so I am going to go with that.

I am sure some people may find this esoteric, but I believe it is not the person but thier understanding of exactly how math and science play key parts in my theories. To change this, however, would require re-wiring of the thought process...moreover, to change someones way of thinking. By no means do I claim that the current standard is wrong or modern physics is wrong, it is just wrong for me and exactly how I apply understanding to everyday things and processes. I don't claim to be a master of this understanding or have an evolved way of thinking from everyday people...I just have a different way of looking at things.

Take for instance my wife...she is a devout Christian. She relates everything she can and will ever do to God. But she knows she cannot win, or convince me, in a discussion about how things work...likewise, I can't convince her with some spiffy numbers and science. Just to point out, I do believe in God, just not the way she attributes God to everyday life. This will often make explaining things to people, especially people whose religion out-weighs everything...I think I have missed the ball and now know why my cousin found Chi so difficult to understand that it exists.

And to your statement:

I don't believe there are any bad people, just degrees of self-awareness.

I couldn't have said it better myself

While I don't know what is going to happen with my cousin, my aunt is getting him counselling even though I tried to implement discussions when he was with me. We might pick up training again, but I do not see it happening for a while from the way his mother talked.

reply to post by Taledus


Taledus call me crazy but I feel that you should teach.
Hopefully your cousin will eventually get the chance to study with you but in the meantime, I feel you have a lot to offer youth in your teaching.

reply to post by cindymars


I don't know how it would work, but there is an old church right down the road from me that has been empty for about a year or so. Since everything went down the way it did with all of this I really thought about talking to the owners of the building and seeing if I can use it a couple of days a week. Right now I don't have the money to put up the deposits for the utilities, but that is the least of my worries...the initial aspect would be getting the kids (about 15) around here to want to come. I have been messing around with some flyers too. But if I am going to do this I will really need to sit down and figure the expenses to cover everything...I might go around in the next few days and take a poll of who all would come if I did start teaching.

Thanks for the kind words cindymars

[edit on 6-10-2008 by Taledus]

reply to post by Taledus


Qi is not an external phenomenon, nor does it exhibit anything like 'wave function'.

It is an internal phenomenon, and does not 'cause' external effects.

Are you familiar with the 'Teacher's test'?

reply to post by Badge01


Right you are...it is an internal phenomena, and it does not cause external effects, but people can learn to use it as an external force...like my previous posts mention. And I do not claim to be the definative source for Chi knowledge...I have admitted there is some I cannot explain. My belief is it travels in wave form, but I also said I have no knowledge or equipment to test this theory.

Aside from an instructors test that is specific to each martial arts school, I am unfamiliar with what you term 'Teacher's test'. Can you explain what you mean please?

Thats interesting about your wife man. It makes sense... you give her yang energy and she gives you yin to form a balance, at least thats the way I look at it.

If yang is the energy, the direct force, and yin is the love, i think we can have more or less of either of them. The yang is considered male, while the yin is considered female.

You have some men who are the very incarnation of male energy, and the same goes for women. You also have people with a middling balance and even men with more of a feminin side or women with more of a masculin side.

I have a female freind who I think has more masculin energy. She seems to really like confidence in people, particularly men she dates. It would make sense, she has more yang energy and she like to be around more yang energy.

I think if someone was more yin they might be inclined to choose to be born female, but thats not always the case. Its just like how you get men and women who you think are gay when really they're not. They might be more in tuned with yang energy, male energy, yet decide to live as a woman.


I think there is a constant need to balance forces, in all relationships, especially close ones like marriage. I think in that circumstance, the ideal is a perfect complimentary balance.

My room-mate just happens to be my opposite astrologically... and he is wreckless where I sort of play it safe. I think about how my yin side, or spirituality has affected him and how his yang energy has driven me. Its something I need to develope, so it makes sense to me. Again, complimentary forces.

I could ramble forever, but I'm going to leave it at that. I just had like a crazy power meditation.

You should teach man, don't call it quits. You have much to offer the community.

Just don't let your vampire wife drain your energy!

Seriously, is she happy, and confident? You should try and teach her to desire things, it sounds silly.. but to want things, and to be happy, to cultivate this direct force, the yang energy. The energy is infinite as long as we are both happy and driven.