Species die-off may be underway: experts

Originally posted by Kryties
I am a supporter of culling feral animals when they pose a significant risk to crops or livestock. To give and example of the problems in Australia, if anyone has ever seen what a fox will do to a lamb it is disgusting and therefore I feel no remorse for putting a bullet in it's head. Same goes for crows, who peck out the eyes of a lamb then begin to eat it alive.

It is in circumstances like this that I support killing the animal who did it to prevent further cruelty to other, more helpless animals. On the flipside of this (and I shall use an example here) I remember a news report of a drunken idiot holding a puppy over a fire then dropping it in. In this case I say jail the bastard for the rest of his life.

Yes but us humans represents the most significant risk to all existence so i dont mind putting a bullet in...

I believe it is a combination of factors, being human interference plus such other things as non-anthropogenic global warming and climate shift. It is the latter which I believe to be the greater cause.

Earth is simply doing what she has always done, and now she is clearing out the old to make way for the new, just like what happened with the dinosaurs and the other species that have become extinct. Mass extinctions have occurred 6 times in the past (that we can account for) and therefore I see no reason to believe that this is completely anthropogenically caused.

Originally posted by Kryties
I believe it is a combination of factors, being human interference plus such other things as non-anthropogenic global warming and climate shift. It is the latter which I believe to be the greater cause.

Earth is simply doing what she has always done, and now she is clearing out the old to make way for the new, just like what happened with the dinosaurs and the other species that have become extinct. Mass extinctions have occurred 6 times in the past (that we can account for) and therefore I see no reason to believe that this is completely anthropogenically caused.

Totally agree
Earth doesn't care about us, she will just keep on moving.
That's a big problem for our civ

It appears nature has designed it's creatures to behave that way. Throughout history animals eat other animals and compete with eachother for habitat and it's natural resources. Humans are no different, we only use unique methods to compete with other species.

It would be nice to view this subject from a higher moral ground but that would only be possible if we existed on a herbivore's planet, where all living things wouldn't have to eat eachother to survive.

THe only thing that has gone extinct is extinction due to the fact we now have cloning technology.Goes for both animals and plant life. Yet there is a possibility of mass extinction if we have no more sun light which is prudent to life on Earh.

reply to post by Dragonfly79


Yes, once again, it is natural for species to compete and go extinct. They have for eons. Compare it to dying -- we all die. But then again, you don't blow up a building and then call the deaths of the people trapped inside "natural". I suppose that in the broad spectrum of all of Earth's history, it is natural in a way, because we humans are a product of nature ourselves. Tsunamis are natural, asteroid impacts are natural, aliens zapping our planet in half (probably herbivores horrified at our planet's bloodthirstiness)...that would be natural, too...

You don't comfort a victim of a tornado with "Oh, it's natural." We have to live on this planet, you know. There's little choice in that.

reply to post by DisabledVet


I googled "genocide" and got 21,300,000 results. But no worries -- "world peace" got 36,900,000 results, so it cancels it out.

(Oh, and I won't bash Google. Google is a wonderful resource. Especially if you actually read the pages it brings up.)

I hope you understand that there's little use in comparing "species discovered" versus "species lost". Discovering does not equal creating them, and then there's a fundamental problem: you can't "discover" them if they're already gone. Those extinct species lists can never be complete, because they only include the ones we've documented. In a world where we're still discovering new species every day, that leaves a lot of room for an extinction event to get looked over.

Being the most "intelligent animal",I for one am not surprised,our species(humans) will be among them.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by all2human]

"Science has identified more than 1.9 million species to date. If microbial organisms are included, this is probably only a 10th of the life forms on Earth."
news.smh.com.au...

So we have about a tenth of species discovered and recognized. the other 90% is unknown, meaning that new species could be taking the place of those unable to adapt to the always changing earth.

This excerpt from the article makes me think this is alarmist BS. The world didnt die off when the dodo went extinct, but other species flourished in its place. If anything, this could be a shedding of the 'obsolete' species and if anything that is a good thing because they will or have already been replaced with something else, whether discovered yet or not.. As for extinctions coming from environmental change, well the environment is always changing into something else not altogether disappearing.. so this will bring a new proliferation of life... if there is indeed a "dry spell" where life has to struggle to adapt, wouldnt it mean it is worth it once species are able to adapt and/or are born out of necessity and will fill the void left from the animals that couldnt adapt ?

Well, I don't know how true this is, but I do know that in my area we have seen an intense lowering of the population of frogs, bullfrogs, toads and salamanders. Many of them that we do find are "deformed", meaning multiple feet, legs, heads etc.

We have three lakes with playgrounds and beaches that I refuse to let my children swim in after noticing the increasing numbers of deformed aquatic animals along with an increasing amount of "pollution" and smell in and about the waters.

We are told that the areas are safe, but given no reason as to why the wildlife seems to be having problems.

Originally posted by Kryties

Based upon that comment I have a feeling that perhaps this is not an entirely unnatural extinction - that what we are witnessing is the beginning of the end of our 'age', just like what happened to all the other extinct species in Earth's earlier days which cannot be attributed to human interference.

news.smh.com.au
(visit the link for the full news article)

Are you f**in' kidding, we are not entirely responsible??? Yeah maybe for one or two species but for the other countless thousands over the past 100,000 years we've left a path of descruction. I'm afraid the blame lays solely at our feet, we are all to blame, we all need paper to wipe our ass right?? but day on day our heated houses, our polluting cars our packaging, housing sites whatever we are killing these animals and we are all responsible and for some reason like every other problem thats cause by population... guiltless. I hope that one day nature will win over our unnatural species and give us a taste of our own medicine...... I think a lot of us are hoping for that day.

[edit on 3/10/2008 by spitefulgod]

Has anyone else seen reports in there countries about Bee's dying off at extraordinary rates??

Reports from the USA, UK, China, Russia i've read so far the same style of reports of thousands of hives dying off strangely?

One has to wonder if Albert Einstein was merely telling a bad joke when he stated if bee's die out humanity will die out four years later.

reply to post by spitefulgod



So you are saying that the previous 6 mass extinctions were also caused by humans? That during the last Ice Age the cause of the extinctions was heated houses, pollution, packaging etc etc? Gee, must have been a fascinating time to live in then hey! What with all the neanderthols driving their expensive Porches...

I would be remiss to suggest humans play no part in this at all, but to say we are the complete, or even the largest majority, of the problem is rather a large step to take, given that we know of 6 major extinctions in the past eon or so.





[edit on 3/10/2008 by Kryties]

Kryties, if an impact event caused the last mass extinction, does that mean that volcanism could never have -- in all of the history of the earth -- caused an extinction incident as well? The causes of those past mass extinctions are irrelevent in deciding what is creating today's, except as a basis of reference. Just because it happened one way in the past, does not mean that it cannot happen another way in the present or future.

reply to post by Siblin


I see your point, but I am advocating it as being non-anthropogenically caused. Earth doing what Earth does - out with the old and in with the new. Clearing the way for more or other species to evolve and become prevalent.

Like I said before, I would be remiss to say humans do not play a part, but I am not inclined to believe it is our fault totally.

reply to post by Kryties


Read my post.. the past 100,000 years, don't try to spread you "last six mass extinctions" crap they were from 65 to 500 million years ago were where the humans then? Do you need a list of extinctions directly related to human over hunting or habitat reduction?

reply to post by spitefulgod


Quite frankly I have said or done nothing to deserve being talked to with angst. If you cannot tone down the anger in your posts I shall ignore you.

In the past 100, 000 years even, to use your shortened timeframe, we have had at least 1 Ice Age, causing extinction obviously not caused by humans. This is no different. We are experiencing non-anthropogenic global warming and climate change which is directly affecting the life of animals on this planet. What we, as humans, are doing adds to it yes, but it would happen regardless of whether humans even existed or not.

reply to post by Kryties


I consider the worlds current biodiversity absolutely abysmal, we've spread out around the globe push out and destroyed other species that get in our way and yet we ALL sit around and have the nerve to state... hey who's to prove it's our fault. look at a picture of the earth at night, see the sparkly light and tell me this is a world with enough room for other species.

Sorry if I come across as a little angry bit I find your denial sickening, here is a list of animals extinct in the last 15,000 years. This is a very small percentage of the total species destroyed and you can probably find a completely list on the web if you have enough bandwidth

Adenomus kandianus,Agile frog,Allen's Thirteenlined Ground Squirrel,ʻĀmaui,Ameiva cineracea,American cheetah,American Lion,Ancient Bison,Antillean Cave Rail,Antillean Cave Rat,Antillean Giant Rice Rat,Arabian Gazelle,Arabian Ostrich,Arctic lemming,Arizona Jaguar,Arizona Wapiti,Atitlán Grebe,Aurochs,Bachman's Warbler,Badlands Bighorn Sheep,Bahaman Barn Owl,Bali Tiger,Banks Island Wolf,Beringian cave lion,Bermuda Night Heron,Big Thicket Hognosed Skunk,Bison,Black Mamo,Bonin Grosbeak,Bonin Thrush,Bonin Wood Pigeon,Brace's Emerald,Brown Bear,Burbot ,Caribbean Monk Seal,Carolina Parakeet,Cascade Mountains Wolf,Caspian Tiger,Catahoula Salamander,Cebu Warty Pig,Chadwick Beach Cottonmouth Mouse,Chatham Island Rice Rat,Chinese elephant,Chinese River Dolphin (Baiji),Colombian Grebe,Colorado Hognosed Skunk,Columbia Basin Pygmy Rabbit,Columbian Mammoth,Corozal Rat,Coypu,Cuban Red Macaw,Culebra Island Giant Anole,Cuvieronius,Cyprus Dipper,Cyprus Dwarf Hippopotamus,Dalmatian Pelican ,Dangs Giant Squirrel,Darwin's Ground Finch,Darwin's Rice Rat,Dawson Caribou,Dire Wolf,Doublebanded Argus,Dusky Seaside Sparrow,Eastern Elk,Eastern Woodland Bison,Eskimo Curlew,Eurasian Aurochs,Eurasian Eagle Owl,European Beaver,European Lion,European pond terrapin,Falkland Island Fox,Flores Cave Rat,Flores Longnosed Rat,Formosan Clouded Leopard,Giant Amakihi,Giant Beaver,Giant Deer Mouse,Giant hutia,Giant ShortFaced Bear,Glyptodon,Goff's Pocket Gopher,Golden Toad,Gould's Emerald ,Grand Cayman Thrush,Gray whale,Great Auk,Greater 'Amakihi,Greater KoaFinch,Greater mouseeared bat,Greater Puerto Rican Agouti,Grey wolf,Guadalupe Caracara,Guadalupe Stormpetrel,Guadeloupe Burrowing Owl,Guadeloupe Parakeet,Guadeloupe Parrot,Guam Flycatcher,Guam Flying Fox,Gull Island Vole,Hawaiʻi ʻAkialoa,Hawai'i Mamo,Hawaiian Crake,Heath Hen,Helmeted Musk Ox,Hokkaidō Wolf,Honshū Wolf,Houting,Hula Painted FrogArctic fox ,Imperial Woodpecker,Indefatigable Galapagos Mouse,Indian Aurochs,Insular Cave Rat,Irish Elk,Ivorybilled Woodpecker,Jamaica Petrel,Japanese Sea Lion,Java Tiger,Kama'O,Kauai 'Akialoa,Kauaʻi Finch,Kaua'i Palila,Kioea,Kona Grosbeak,Labrador Duck,Lana'i Creeper,Lana'i Hookbill,Law's Divinggoose ,Laysan Crake,Laysan Honeycreeper,Laysan Millerbird,Lesser Antillean Macaw,Lesser KoaFinch,Lesser Puerto Rican Agouti,Lesser Puerto Rican Ground Sloth,Louisiana Vole ,Lynx,Martinique Giant Ameiva,Martinique House Wren,Martinique Lizard,Martinique Parrot,Mauge's Parakeet,Maui Finch,Maui Nui 'Akialoa,Maui Nui Finch,Merriam's Teratorn,Moanalo,Molokai Creeper,Monk seal,Moor frog,Muskrat,Nannophrys guentheri,Narrowheaded vole,Navassa Curlytailed Lizard,Navassa Iguana,Navassa Island Dwarf Boa,Negros Nakedbacked Fruit Bat,Nēnēnui,Newfoundland Wolf,Niceforo Brown Pintail Duck,Northern Sumatran Rhinoceros,Norway lemming,Nukupu‘u,Oahu 'Akepa,Oahu 'Akialoa,Oʻahu ʻAlauahio,Oʻahu Grosbeak,Oahu Nukupu'u,O'ahu Petrel,Oloma'O,Oregon Bison,Pallid Beach Mouse,Panay Giant Fruit Bat,Passenger Pigeon,Penasco Chipmunk,Pika,Pila's Palila,Pinkheaded Duck,Pleistocenen Black Vulture,Poʻouli,Primitive Koafinch,Puerto Rican Hutia,Puerto Rican Longnosed Bat,Puerto Rican Longtongued Bat,Puerto Rican Obscure Bunting,Puerto Rican Paca,Puerto Rican Shrew,Pygmy Mammoth,Pyrenean Ibex,Queen of Sheba's Gazelle,Redthroated Wood,Root Vole,Ryūkyū Wood Pigeon,Saiga Antelope,Saint Croix Macaw,Saint Croix Racer,Schomburgk's Deer,Scissorbilled Koafinch,Sea Mink,Semper's Warbler,Sherman's Pocket Gopher,Slenderbilled Grackle,Smilodon,Smith Island Cottontail,Spectacled Cormorant,St Kilda House Mouse,Steller's Sea Cow ,Stoutlegged Finch,Sturdee's Pipistrelle,Sulcate Blind Snake,Syrian elephant,Syrian Wild Ass,Tacoma Pocket Gopher,Tarpan,Ula'aihawane,ʻUla-ʻaiHawane,Vegas Valley Leopard Frog,Verhoeven's Giant Tree Rat,Virgin Islands ScreechOwl,Wake Island Rail,Western Camel,Wild horse,Wolverine,Wolly Mammoth,Woolly Rhinoceros,Wryneck,Yukon Wild Ass,Yunnan Box Turtle,Yunnan Lake Newt

[edit] Angry comment removed

[edit on 3/10/2008 by spitefulgod]

Originally posted by spitefulgod
reply to post by Kryties

 

Sorry if I come across as a little angry bit I find your denial sickening

I would completely understand if I had have actually completely denied it, but I have not. I have stated several times that I believe humans to be partially to blame, just not entirely. When that sinks in then perhaps we can move along and discuss the actual extinctions and their effect on Earth, rather than focusing entirely on the cause.

I would suggest to you that if you cannot remain calm whilst answering a post on the internet that is simply meant to be a debate, that perhaps it is time to give forums a rest for a while? Get the ol' emotions back in check rather than allowing them to run loose and attack the first person that tweaks them.

Deny Emotion,
Apply Logic.

[edit on 3/10/2008 by Kryties]