Yes, documents can survive a plane crash

Originally posted by Jeff Riff
You can say whatever you want, but I am not trying to spin it. Since you are so adamant that you are following a logical path, you have to look at all sides of it. Being narrow minded is not reserved for only the conspiracy theorist.

I find it hilarious that we always hear from the truthers how impossible it is that a plane crash would leave documents, then it's no no no we meant a massive exploding one, THEN .. lol.. when the story of the space shuttle exploding to bits 30+ miles above the earth , yet documents survive, it's well no no no , it didn't hit a building...



Oh yah, just in case you accidently goofed up the quote, here, I'll fix it for ya :

"It's almost a miracle that it survived — it's incredible," Zalmona said. There is "no rational explanation" for how it was recovered when most of the shuttle was not, he said.

NASA searchers found 37 pages from Ramon's diary, wet and crumpled, in a field just outside the U.S. town of Palestine, Texas. The diary survived extreme heat in the explosion, extreme atmospheric cold, and then "was attacked by microorganisms and insects" in the field where it fell

Sure sounds like it had a much rougher time that something 90 some odd stories up hitting a building.

Originally posted by Jeff Riff
Regardless, relax on the "truthers say its impossible." Its unlikely. Even more so, its unlikely that one of the terrorists passports would survive. It is just more of a convenience. Yeah fine documents can survive a fireball like in the story that you have referenced, but in the story of 9-11 its a fireball and a MAJOR impact. It was not a midair explosion that blew debris every which way, it was more confined.

How about a 700mph impact?
en.wikipedia.org...

Is there anything that would convince you? How about if we produced quotes suggesting other items survived on 911?

you people are putting words in my mouth. I have made no claims regarding the likelihood of documents surviving the planes hitting WTC. I am just commenting on your supposed evidence. You are making sweeping generalizations in an effort to prove a weak point. Not all "truthers" make the claim that you are trying to disprove. In fact your evidence (this post) has no real bearing on anything regarding what happened that day..... I cant prove that it was planted just as much as you cant prove that it actually came from the pocket of a terrorist.

[edit on 5-10-2008 by Jeff Riff]

Originally posted by Jeff Riff
you people are putting words in my mouth. I have made no claims regarding the likelihood of documents surviving the planes hitting WTC. I am just commenting on your supposed evidence. You are making sweeping generalizations in an effort to prove a weak point. Not all "truthers" make the claim that you are trying to disprove. In fact your evidence (this post) has no real bearing on anything regarding what happened that day..... I cant prove that it was planted just as much as you cant prove that it actually came from the pocket of a terrorist.

[edit on 5-10-2008 by Jeff Riff]

No one said "all" truthers, this is for the ones that constantly post that it's impossible for the "magical" documents to have survived. These cases prove that it is possible, and that those people need to stop using that old and tired excuse as "proof".

If you do not fit into that crowd, then cool.

Then I guess we are on the same page....by the way I LOVE your avatar.....

So am I to believe that you follow the official story? If so, do you not think that there is anything weird that went on that day? Anything you think should be investigated?

Umm, there is a slight difference between flying straight into a building with a Boeing, surviving a giant explosion of jetfuel and a building turning into dust, and crashing with a small private airplane into the ground.

Not to mention the passport was found a couple of blocks away if I remember correctly. I cant believe some people believe the official story.

Next time I bet they will tell you a story of how "terrorists" brought a bomb into a airport, avoiding all the security measures, and by accident, the guards would have been on a simultaneous training exercise in another building at the same time. And you will see nothing strange about it.




[edit on 5-10-2008 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by Jeff Riff
Then I guess we are on the same page....by the way I LOVE your avatar.....

So am I to believe that you follow the official story? If so, do you not think that there is anything weird that went on that day? Anything you think should be investigated?

I don't follow a "story", I was there in the control room of one of the big 3 networks where I worked that day and watched it all happen live and unedited. We had the FBI come and set up a perimeter around our building, and they were obviously (and visibly) worried and helped execute a voluntary evacuation of the building. Given my job at the time I had to stay, so there you have it.

All these theories on CGI, and TV fakery always get a chuckle, not only because they are so absurd, they are absolutely 100% false. I know, I was there.

Did anything weird happen? Sure, our security failed to protect our citizens. Sadly, not enough was done to keep this from happening. Our intelligence services failed that day, actually well before that day, and what a hell of a price to pay for that failure.

I don't have the answers on how that should be investigated, it's not something open to the general public, for good reason, but something needs to change alright. We can never ever allow that to happen again.

Originally posted by Copernicus

Umm, there is a slight difference between flying straight into a building with a Boeing, surviving a giant explosion of jetfuel and a building turning into dust, and crashing with a small private airplane into the ground.

Not to mention the passport was found a couple of blocks away if I remember correctly. I cant believe some people believe the official story.

Next time I bet they will tell you a story of how "terrorists" brought a bomb into a airport, avoiding all the security measures, and by accident, the guards would have been on a simultaneous training exercise in another building at the same time. And you will see nothing strange about it.

[edit on 5-10-2008 by Copernicus]

Did you not read the other posted articles? Yes the passport was found a couple of blocks away. The diary from the shuttle was found 30+ miles away.

The other article posted is from a 700mph impact, yet the note survived.

Or are you going to make excuses for them too?

Originally posted by Soloist

Did you not read the other posted articles? Yes the passport was found a couple of blocks away. The diary from the shuttle was found 30+ miles away.

The other article posted is from a 700mph impact, yet the note survived.

Or are you going to make excuses for them too?

I read the story about NASA finding the note. NASA also denies all existence of aliens, UFO's, structures on the moon and so on. NASA is a military agency. Their job is not to be truthful to the people.

Originally posted by Copernicus
I read the story about NASA finding the note. NASA also denies all existence of aliens, UFO's, structures on the moon and so on. NASA is a military agency. Their job is not to be truthful to the people.

Oh dear, this is weak rationalisation. Why would NASA lie about this? Why would the NTSB lie about finding a suicide note? You're simply rationalising your belief to try and dismiss the evidence provided.

Jeff, I'm sorry if I mis-characterised your response, but it's important to fight these false claims. The passport being planted simply doesn't make sense, it was barely used as convincing evidence compared to videos of the planes impacting etc.

reply to post by Soloist


The Fosset plane BROKE APART on impact, it did not explode whereas the planes hitting the towers EXPLODED in a fireball. The was NO FIREBALL inherant in the Fosset plane crash.

Your example is ridiculous to say the least. It is like comparing a balloon popping to a grenade exploding.

posted by Copernicus
I read the story about NASA finding the note. NASA also denies all existence of aliens, UFO's, structures on the moon and so on. NASA is a military agency. Their job is not to be truthful to the people.

posted by exponent
Oh dear, this is weak rationalisation. Why would NASA lie about this? Why would the NTSB lie about finding a suicide note? You're simply rationalising your belief to try and dismiss the evidence provided.

Jeff, I'm sorry if I mis-characterised your response, but it's important to fight these false claims. The passport being planted simply doesn't make sense, it was barely used as convincing evidence compared to videos of the planes impacting etc.

NASA would lie to coverup their blunders and the blatantly obvious rapidly increasing inability to place men on the moon let alone Mars a lot further away. Incompetence and lying requires lots of 'happy' tales to bewitch the boob tube addicted public. Gotta protect all those hundreds of billions of dollars from the cash cow American people.

Of course the Suqami paper passport was planted, just like the other paper passports and the Flight 11 paper flight itinerary and the Florida license and the red bandana and a multitude of other objects planted for the 9-11 flights.

Suqami paper passport - Pristine unscorched paper passport
Paper passport was recovered by NYPD Detective Yuk H. Chin from an unidentified passerby

On the street, standing in a shower of office paper and the siding from the building, he found a piece of paper. It was an airliner's itinerary, listing information about a flight from Boston to Los Angeles.
New York Times September 12 2001

This little piece below just looks like a standard human interest story like those manufactured daily by OUR corrupt goverment and their kept media propagandists to cover up their incessant lies and incompetence.

Astronaut's diary goes on display

A little over two months after the shuttle explosion, NASA searchers found 37 pages from Ramon's diary, wet and crumpled, in a field just outside the U.S. town of Palestine, Texas. The diary survived extreme heat in the explosion, extreme atmospheric cold, and then "was attacked by microorganisms and insects" in the field where it fell, said museum curator Yigal Zalmona.

"It's almost a miracle that it survived — it's incredible," Zalmona said. There is "no rational explanation" for how it was recovered when most of the shuttle was not, he said.

The diary provides no indication Ramon knew anything about potential problems on the shuttle. Columbia's wing was gashed by a chunk of fuel tank foam insulation at liftoff and broke up in flames just 16 minutes before it was scheduled to land at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida. All seven astronauts on board were killed.

Originally posted by Kryties
reply to post by Soloist

 

The Fosset plane BROKE APART on impact, it did not explode whereas the planes hitting the towers EXPLODED in a fireball. The was NO FIREBALL inherant in the Fosset plane crash.

Your example is ridiculous to say the least. It is like comparing a balloon popping to a grenade exploding.

Actually it hit a mountain head on with such a force that it spewed debris in a area as long as a football field and as wide, with burning patches. So saying "broke apart" is a fun way to spin it I guess.

Did you read the other articles? They all add to this nonsense of it being impossible for documents to survive.

Originally posted by SPreston
Of course the Suqami paper passport was planted, just like the other paper passports and the Flight 11 paper flight itinerary and the Florida license and the red bandana and a multitude of other objects planted for the 9-11 flights.

Well, of course you must have evidence of this charge to make such a wild claim, no?

I look forward to seeing your evidence, otherwise we should just assume it's your hatred for the Government and it's agencies, that is rambling on about this.

Originally posted by SPreston
Of course the Suqami paper passport was planted, just like the other paper passports and the Flight 11 paper flight itinerary and the Florida license and the red bandana and a multitude of other objects planted for the 9-11 flights.

You have presented only evidence which does not favour your case. Do you have any evidence to suggest any of this was planted or are we supposed to accept your speculation as fact?