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NY policeman commits suicide after Taser death

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posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by verylowfrequency
reply to post by JimBeam
 


He was just announcing the arrival of himself in plural. I think he's probably talking to himself in the mirror too - just like his lieutenant comrade.


On the conspiracy side maybe the underling who fired the taser that resulted in the first death killed his commander to cover himself. Either way two unnecessary deaths thanks to one guys action - when will they learn.



I'm pretty sure he was a female, and not a very bright one I must add.

Also, I just want to reiterate the respect I have for this cop that took his own life. Now there was a cop that understood how to be honorable.

The east and tribal societies are making a comeback.




posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:07 AM
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Originally posted by mmariebored
I don't understand why he felt he had to kill himself just for that.



Just for that ?

We're talking about the loss of a human life here, not a traffic ticket. An innocent man died because of the actions of two police officers.

Do you really find it hard to believe that being responsible for an innocent man's death would effect somebody so much that they would end their own ?

This was a terrible incident that has now excalated into two. My heart goes out to the members of both family's that must deal with the unnecessary loss of a loved one.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:49 AM
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Originally posted by mmariebored
I don't understand why he felt he had to kill himself just for that.


"Just for that"? The subtext here is a little frightening. Do you think the life of the officer was genuinely more valuable than the life of the man on the ledge? The glib way you use the word 'just' completely diminishes the fact that the first man died in such a tragic and needless way (tantamount to murder in my opinion - you taser a man on a ledge and he will fall). You even go as to suggest there had to be more to it, that the police officer had other things on his mind; the subtext of which is that this couldn't be enough for him to want to kill himself. Again, a major dishonour to the poor bastard who died coming off the ledge.

Yet, at the same time you're obviously placing worth on the police officer's life with your statement; his life was worth more than throwing it away because of what happened.

Shocking.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by Merriman Weir
 



Yeah, she doesn't get it.

"like, oh my god, you sort of like, kinda made a guy fall to is death. Why would that, like, effect you mentally and want to kill yourself?"

The dumb broad questions are dead. No need to respond to them.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 07:50 AM
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Originally posted by JimBeam

Originally posted by mmariebored
I see the morons have arrived...


You're right, I'm such a moron. I wish I was smart like you.


Maybe someday.

But not today.

Be strong.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by mmariebored
I don't understand why he felt he had to kill himself just for that.


"Just for that"? The subtext here is a little frightening. Do you think the life of the officer was genuinely more valuable than the life of the man on the ledge? The glib way you use the word 'just' completely diminishes the fact that the first man died in such a tragic and needless way (tantamount to murder in my opinion - you taser a man on a ledge and he will fall). You even go as to suggest there had to be more to it, that the police officer had other things on his mind; the subtext of which is that this couldn't be enough for him to want to kill himself. Again, a major dishonour to the poor bastard who died coming off the ledge.

Yet, at the same time you're obviously placing worth on the police officer's life with your statement; his life was worth more than throwing it away because of what happened.

Shocking.

Obviously, you didn't read further down? Is my other post not showing on this forum?
My WHOLE POINT in saying that was, there had to be more to the officer's suicide than causing the death of another human being. Most mentally stable people can get past a horrible mistake like that and move on. Most GOOD people will use the mistake they made and try to help others NOT make the same mistake that they did. To applaud a the man for killing himself, instead of encouraging people to move past their mistakes and try to help others not make the same mistakes, is VERY irresponsible, even moronic.
No, I'm not saying the officer's life was more valuable than the man, I'm saying two wrongs do not make a right.


Google Video Link


I watched the video. The officer looked like he was afraid when the guy started fidgeting with his pants, but, instead of admitting his ungrounded fear causing the tasing, he proceeded with the story that he tased him for not "doing as he said". What made it worse is that his friend(the other officer) helped encourage the fake reason for the tasing by applauding the decision. Clearly these guys were used to boosting each other's egos, whether the other was in the wrong or not. The officer's ego was on a very high pedestal and, when it fell, he shattered.
Better to let your pals know it's ok to be wrong and it's ok to be corrected, than let them shatter from a fall of that height.

That's the lesson I got out of it.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by mmariebored

Obviously, you didn't read further down? Is my other post not showing on this forum? My WHOLE POINT in saying that was, there had to be more to the officer's suicide than causing the death of another human being.


Yes, I get your point. You're saying that there "had to be more to the officer's suicide than causing the death of another human being"; I can read what you're actually typing with no problem at all. Let's look at that. As I said before, you're saying there has to be more to this. You're saying that causing an innocent man's death wasn't enough, that this couldn't be important or upsetting enough for someone to think they may have to take their own life.


Most mentally stable people can get past a horrible mistake like that and move on. Most GOOD people will use the mistake they made and try to help others NOT make the same mistake that they did.


Woah! So the policeman wasn't a "GOOD" man now? Also, and I mean no offence, but the way you're phrasing this is genuinely worrying. There is a very strong suggestion in what you're saying that mentally unstable people are 'BAD'.


To applaud a the man for killing himself, instead of encouraging people to move past their mistakes and try to help others not make the same mistakes, is VERY irresponsible, even moronic.


Well, I for one wasn't applauding his death. My previous posts in the thread state that I personally think both deaths are a needless tragedy and I'm ultimately pointing my finger at the sick mind that sells cattle prods as a means of herding human cattle and the sick mind that relishes having a police force under them that has this kind of control.


No, I'm not saying the officer's life was more valuable than the man, I'm saying two wrongs do not make a right.


You wrote: "I don't understand why he felt he had to kill himself just for that". You're obviously placing worth on the police officer's life because you within the whole context of the thread are taken aback by the fact he actually killed himself. Yet with the use of the word "just", you diminish the life and death of the poor swine who died as a direct consequence of being tased. I don't understand how you can not actually see this in your own writing.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by mmariebored

Obviously, you didn't read further down? Is my other post not showing on this forum? My WHOLE POINT in saying that was, there had to be more to the officer's suicide than causing the death of another human being.


Yes, I get your point. You're saying that there "had to be more to the officer's suicide than causing the death of another human being"

OK. So, you acknowledged that I said there had to be more to the police officer's death than his tremendous guilt over causing the death of a fellow human being.

Yet with the use of the word "just", you diminish the life and death of the poor swine who died as a direct consequence of being tased.

But then you went and scrutinized a single word I chose to use and twisted it to mean that I felt the man who died was nothing more than a "swine"?

just = swine


So the policeman wasn't a "GOOD" man now?

Again. Putting words into a someone's mouth isn't very nice.

There is a very strong suggestion in what you're saying that mentally unstable people are 'BAD'.

Suggestion? You mean like I was being passive aggressive towards a victim I could see but who couldn't see me? Like something a hacker would do to their victims? Blindfold their victims and beat them up, only verbally? I would never do that. You, once again, twisted my meaning. I didn't say that at all. I didn't say mentally unstable people are "bad", I said it would be BETTER to stay alive and right your wrong by teaching others not to make the same mistake you made. You see how easy it is to add meaning?


Well, I for one wasn't applauding his death.

And, I wasn't saying his life was more important than the the other man.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 10:04 AM
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Originally posted by mmariebored

OK. So, you acknowledged that I said there had to be more to the police officer's death than his tremendous guilt over causing the death of a fellow human being.


You're completely misunderstanding this. I acknowledged it previously. The issue is I not only acknowledge it but I have a problem with it. I can't believe that you don't think it's enough.


Yet with the use of the word "just", you diminish the life and death of the poor swine who died as a direct consequence of being tased.


But then you went and scrutinized a single word I chose to use and twisted it to mean that I felt the man who died was nothing more than a "swine"?

just = swine


Woah! You're the one that's twisting things. Perhaps it means something else on your side of the Atlantic, but to call someone a poor swine in America is a sympathetic thing: poor bastard, poor sod and so on. I'm certainly not denigrating the man.

You may think I'm "scrutinising a single word" but it's an important word.


Again. Putting words into a someone's mouth isn't very nice.


I'm beginning to think you're not really aware of how you're posts are coming across. I don't think I'm "putting words in your mouth at all". The word "GOOD" - which was curiously highlighted with capitals - in the context you placed it in does read as if the man wasn't a good man because that's not what good people do.



Suggestion? You mean like I was being passive aggressive towards a victim I could see but who couldn't see me? Like something a hacker would do to their victims? Blindfold their victims and beat them up, only verbally? I would never do that. You, once again, twisted my meaning. I didn't say that at all. I didn't say mentally unstable people are "bad", I said it would be BETTER to stay alive and right your wrong by teaching others not to make the same mistake you made. You see how easy it is to add meaning?


Go back to what you wrote. You said that "Most mentally stable people can get past a horrible mistake like that and move on". The man didn't move on he killed himself. So from from your sentence, it's a likelihood that the man was mentally unstable. At this point I might agree with you. Personally, I think that the murder of the original guy probably tipped an otherwise sane man over the edge, although I suspect - and happy to be corrected - that you might be inclined to believe that he was already unstable.

However, you follow-up with "Most GOOD people will use the mistake they made and try to help others NOT make the same mistake that they did. " I don't even understand where "GOOD" actually comes into this in the first place, it seems a bizarre and unnecessary point to make. When someone kills himself in a situation like this, it's not a case of good and bad.

Anyway, you actually made the point, so let us look at it. You've said that "Most GOOD people will use the mistake they made and try to help others", yet the man didn't. Instead he killed himself. How is it an unfair assessment on my part that you are saying the man wasn't "GOOD"? He did exactly what you said "GOOD" people wouldn't do! Instead of using that mistake to help others he killed himself. Whilst my English isn't perfect, it's good enough for me to avoid using 'ungood' or 'notgood', so I'm having to go with 'BAD'.


Well, I for one wasn't applauding his death.

And, I wasn't saying his life was more important than the the other man.


Seriously, that's not how it reads at all.

I'm honestly not sure whether to continue this with you as, no genuine offence meant, I feel as if I'm banging my head against a wall.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by Merriman Weir]

[edit on 3-10-2008 by Merriman Weir]



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 11:40 AM
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What the bleeding hearts tend to overlook here is the number of lives that the Taser has actually SAVED.

Firstly, anything can be lethal, people choke on bagels every day, so do we ban bagels? Pepper spray can cause an allergic reaction and people die of the resultant respiratory distress, a blow from a baton can easily kill, just a regular old choke hold restraint can and has killed many.

You cannot restrain violent and mentally disturbed individuals using ANY mechanism that guarantees both effectiveness for the officer and safety for the suspect.

In the absence of other non-lethal options, the Taser has unquestionably saved MANY lives, most notably where the officer would have been justified in using lethal force - often in situations where suspects are armed with a knife or other weapon that they refuse to drop.

Tasers work, and they save lives - to consider banning them because they are somehow dangerous is nonsensical, especially when you consider that officers routinely carry weapons which are specifically intended to be lethal in their application.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by Merriman Weir
 

"What we have here is a failure to communicate"....and we can just leave it at that.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 02:53 PM
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Maybe the cop was afraid he would end up in jail and couldn't take that chance.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 03:30 PM
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Most major U.S. city's in this country are far more dangerous than city's in Iraq and Afghanistan, and you can take mortality rates form those city's and compare them with city's here. I rest my case...



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 


You're exactly right. It is as unto the Hippocratic Oath with doctors. They say the words, but have forgotten their meaning. "To protect and serve". "Peace Officer." The words are dust to them. Maybe this tragedy will open some eyes; at least in New York.



posted on Oct, 4 2008 @ 12:48 AM
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A lot of cops after shooting anyone in the line of duty, especially if it results in a death, have severe mental issues. PTSD to varying degrees, depending on the person. This is good and bad. It shows us that many are still human. But it also shows us how flawed the system is in training, tactics, and the general policies of handling stress on the job.

EMS and Fire have recognized the need for post-traumatic stress debriefings and have fostered an attitude of taking care of each others mental well being as well as their physical. This is also extends to the family and friends as stress in the work place will exhibit itself at home.

Unfortunately I think the police force in general has been slower to come around to this and the stresses they face could be more damaging as it builds up over time.

Remember, most cops are just people like us that do want to protect and serve. Most of the time its the system that's flawed, not the person. Also, remember that the NWO is duping the local police just as bad if not worse then us. I like to believe if the proverbial shtf that our local police would wise up to whats going on...I've talked to several (as well as military) and I think several people on ATS would be surprised at how many realize whats going on. I mean honestly, it doesn't take a genius to see the writing on the wall lol

I think this incident is what it is, an unfortunate accident due to a bad judgment call that has taken two lives. Its tragic, and lets just hope that people learn from this and make things better. I do know that some police forces (prior to this) have either dropped the notion of using tasers, or severely limited their use. Where I worked they have very strict guidelines; only few officers carry them and they have mandatory transport by EMS of anyone hit by a taser to the ER for evaluation.



posted on Oct, 4 2008 @ 01:12 AM
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Originally posted by JimBeam

Also, I just want to reiterate the respect I have for this cop that took his own life. Now there was a cop that understood how to be honorable.



Whatever. This isnt old time Japan. Go rent another anime and kid yourself into thinking you understand honor.

You havent ever had anyone you love commit suicide have you? Because if you did you wouldnt be spewing about how "honorable" he was for doing so.

Now two families are going to suffer for his actions. The family of the guy who fell to his death, and now, his own family is going to have to suffer too. Suicide is brutal on the family of the person who commits it. I am terribly sorry that he felt so awful that he couldnt see any other way out of his problems, but for you to go on about how honorable it was for him to do it is really tasteless.



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