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What if Jesus returned with a new identity?

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posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by Matrix1111
What would happen if Jesus returned today and he said Christian teachings are all wrong? Based on some of the things recorded in the Bible, there is a good chance of this happening.

Of his return, Jesus said:

On that day many will say to me, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?" And then will I declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers." -Matt. 7:22-23

I tell you, he will vindicate them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man comes, will he find faith on earth? -Luke 18:8

The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed. -Luke 17:20

But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. -Luke 17:25


From these quotes of Jesus, it's possible to deduce that when he returns, there may not be the kind of faith (belief) that is required to recognize him. There won't be signs to indicate he has returned. And there will be even devout Christians that he rejects.

Most Christians will be upset with the possibility that Jesus will be rejected when he comes again. But think about it, would God make it any easier for Christians to recognize their Messiah as he did for the Israelites?

If we really consider these Bible verses, we'd have to consider the possibility that Christians will reject Jesus when he returns -- especially since the Bible also says that Jesus will come with a new name.

His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. -Rev. 19:12

I will write on him the name of my God... and I will also write on him my new name. -Rev. 3:12


Jesus comes with a new name? The churches don't teach that. This seems like a perfect set up for Jesus to be persecuted and rejected just like he was the first time. It almost seems like it's the plan. Why would God want this to happen? Is it a test of humility? Is it for the sake of finding only the purest of faith -- the 144,000? In the process, won't it result in many people coming forward saying they are the Messiah? How are we to know who is the true Messiah?

Strange.



[edit on 10/2/2008 by Matrix1111]


the messiah is not here to personally talk to anyone I think, hes a time/space agent for whatever God is. He soul travel through death, between lifetimes.

His eyes like fire could mean hes a stoner? (not sarcastic btw) many crowns maybe hes american?

rejected by the world, stoners are quite rejected and looked down on.

The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed- elusion to destruction so no one would be around to observe it?




posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 10:31 AM
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Hi Noturtypical ...

This thread isnt really about the Rapture so I would prefer to not even get into that one here at least lol .

What I was talking about was some Christians believe that the Rapture happens at the same time of his second coming ..(Post tribbers) ...they believe it is all one event ..not two seperate events ..

I think people get confused ...because they dont read it close enough and see the differences ..

An example I was talking about with the rapture .....is Every eye will see him (This is at his second coming)Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
..compared to Only those who look for him will see him (This has to be about the rapture it cannot be the same as the second coming when it says that every eye shall see him)
Hbr 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
...THOSE DO NOT SOUND LIKE THE SAME EVENTS ..they cant be ....it would make no sense ..


There is also the Gog Magog battles ..(There are two different events but alot of people make them as the same event ..because they dont see the differences) ..
One battle describes as God pulling a part of the army back after they come against Israel ..the other describes as all of Gogs army gets destroyed .
They are TWO DIFFERENT EVENTS >.one at the start of the trib (See Ezek 38 and 39) and then the final battle against Christ at the end of the thousand year (See Rev) .

My point was that some people do not LOOK close enough at scripture to see the differences of the description of the events being talked about,



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by Simplynoone
 



There seems to be a contradiction in this reasoning. A supernatural phenomenon will take place first (Rapture) and then later Jesus will float on the clouds for all to see -- BUT he will resort to military strategies to defeat evil? If he has supernatural powers, why resort to war to bring peace?

Fundamentalists (Jew, Christian or Muslim) are going to miss the boat because of their narrowminded thinking. The new Messiah comes as a prince of peace, not a warrior. Love is the answer, not war. Too many contradictions in the fundamentalist viewpoint.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by mastermind77
His eyes like fire could mean hes a stoner? (not sarcastic btw) many crowns maybe hes american?



"I came to cast fire upon the earth." -Luke 12:49

"For judgment I came into this world." -John 9:39


Yet, there is no record that Jesus literally judged the world with fire. This means it's a figure of speech.

"He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day." -John 12:48

So fire is judgment by the Word.

"Is not my word like fire, says the Lord?" -Jer. 23:29


The Messiah judges what he sees by the Word.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 11:03 AM
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Matrix ..does love work on the demons ? And the Devil ? and his minions ?
I say NO it doesnt because they are void of love ...
There is NO GOOD IN THEM ..they seek to do EVIL no matter what ..


And at the time when Christ comes back all men who are left here (not killed during the trib or raptured prior to it ) will be nothing but PURE EVIL ...turned over reprobate ..and void of any repentence ...(These are those who take the mark ) .....
Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
Rev 16:10 ¶ And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

The Lord reached out to them OVER AND OVER AGAIN and they refused him and refused to repent even .

They are the ones who WANT WAR ..they started this war with the Lord and they will get their battle as they so desired ......
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful.

What would you do with these people ? In order to create a peaceful society you will have to contain evil would you not ?

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which [sword] proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 11:09 AM
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[Yet, there is no record that Jesus literally judged the world with fire.]

Because it is not yet time ...it has not happened yet ..

He came the first time to CALL EVERYONE WHO WILL COME TO COME TO HIM>
He will come the second time to FINISH IT ALL >...it is finished he declared ..
Then he says BEHOLD NOW HE WILL MAKE ALL THINGS NEW >>
Rev 21:1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Has that happened yet ? NO >>.


I believe you will understand better if you read about the Wheat and the Tares .And the harvesting of the fields (The world)
Matthew 9
Matthew 13
Mark 4
Luke 10
etc etc
www.blueletterbible.org...

Also
Jam 5:7 ¶ Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

He is waiting for the FRUIT TO RIPEN in the fields (The earth) ...before he HARVESTS .....after a harvest ...you BURN UP THE STUBBLE >
Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

The STUBBLE are all those who are WICKED and do not seek PEACE ..and do not know the Lord ..neither do they care to know him ..and all they know is wickedness ..they will need to be dealt with before we can ever have peace and love and joy ..because they do not want these things and live contrary to it and do their best to try and take down everyone who is for peace love and joy...Including the Lord Jesus Christ (They KILLED HIM because of it ) and they will try and kill us all too(anyone is for peace love and joy ) ...just like they did Christ..





[edit on 7-10-2008 by Simplynoone]



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 11:45 AM
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...

[edit on 7-10-2008 by seenitall]



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by seenitall
Simple answer:

If Jesus returned as someone else, then he wouldn't be Jesus anymore would he!?



True. But Christians aren't exactly going to like that. Too much ego wrapped up in the "my Jesus" and "my God" thing.

We already see that Elijah didn't return as himself. It wasn't a literal return. It was a spiritual assistance from the other side. (John the Baptist was Elijah.) The precedent is already there. We just need to learn from it.

Btw, there still is certain criteria the "new Jesus" has to meet. Not just anyone qualifies. Lineage may be a key.

[edit on 10/7/2008 by Matrix1111]



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 12:07 PM
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Matthew 24:5 "For many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 12:10 PM
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Matrix you are setting others and yourself up for deception ...you will believe the coming antichrist ....


At his second coming no one will wonder if he is the LORD OR NOT >

How could you miss this
Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
He will come with ten thousand of his saints ..no mistaking the second coming of Christ ...
Every eye shall see him ..
And they will know that he is GOD ...

How can anyone mistake him for another ?



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by Simplynoone
Badmedia what verses would you like ?
About the Rapture (These verses I know are limited) or his first and second comings ?
There are so many about his first and second coming that it would take me all day to post them all ..



The 2nd coming. Mostly dealing with how people think he will be a conqueror.

I know Jesus as the light/truth. Not as an image, not as a name. It is those who worship his image that worship the false idol. Just as the people were worshiping the bull of Taurus in the time of moses.

Now, many will say that the worship of the golden bull was to do with the change of the ages. But IMO, it was dealing with the fact they were worshipping the image, and not the teachings(thus why they had the golden bull statue, it is image/false idol worship).

So for me, when I see the return of christ, I see it as the truth being revealed upon the masses. Just as with the veil being lifted. As the veil being lifted exposes the truth. Just as the meaning of the word revelations means the exposure of hidden truth. And I can see that as being a conqueror, as once you know and understand the truth, your ignorance is conquered.

I see the one who will come as the image of christ and conquerors the world as the anti-christ. As it says in John 14, where he says that soon they will not see him. Now that is often thought of as meaning he will die. But when you put Jesus into the perspective that he is the truth/light, it means that soon people will no longer see the truth, for the prince of this world is coming.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by Simplynoone
Matrix you are setting others and yourself up for deception ...you will believe the coming antichrist ....


At his second coming no one will wonder if he is the LORD OR NOT >

How could you miss this
Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
He will come with ten thousand of his saints ..no mistaking the second coming of Christ ...
Every eye shall see him ..
And they will know that he is GOD ...

How can anyone mistake him for another ?


So when Jesus didn't show up with those 10,000 saints, it was because those prophesies were for the second coming? And what are saints? Living ones? Dead ones? Is this a physical manifestation or a spiritual? I'd guess it's a spiritual one and Jesus did in fact have this occur but only on a spiritual level. Same with the second coming.

But I agree. I'm setting myself up. But you're setting yourself up to not "see" the Messiah for the same reasons the Israelites didn't "see" Jesus.

Jesus spoke in parables. Aramaic uses lots of idioms, figures of speech and exaggerations. To literally interpret those word today (as Fundamentalists do) means you'll not see his coming. Instead, you'll call him the antichrist or Beelzabub, same as he was called the first time around.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by Simplynoone
And they will know that he is GOD ...


Which verse says this? This is another problem of Paul's theology. Christians are waiting for God to return. There just isn't any Judaic basis for such a Messiah.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Matthew 24:5 "For many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.


Yes, same as during Jesus' time. Yet, one of them was Christ. Same for today.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by Simplynoone
[Yet, there is no record that Jesus literally judged the world with fire.]

Because it is not yet time ...it has not happened yet ..


Why has God waited so long if he could just burn away the "stubble" in the first place? Why wait until billions and billions of people have come into existence? Why not nip evil in the bud? Why not burn the "stubble" at the time of Cain and Abel? At least Cain would have been able to survive.

God didn't wait all this time just to destroy this earth. He has a process he's been using. The history of Judaism shows the process. The history of Judaism shows the process.

God promised after the Flood never to destroy earth again. The rainbow is a reminder of this. So why the contradiction of the apocalyptse scenario? The new heaven and earth comes about because of the end of sin in the minds of man. It's a purification process. That's why in order to prepare the way for Jesus, John the Baptist baptized all the Israelites. That's why burnt offering were made in the Temple. But the real purification comes through the Word which burns away all connection to sin. Jesus started the process but wasn't able to complete it. That's why he "returns."

There is no magic wand. The process doesn't work simply by removing our enemies. Jesus taught that we need to love our enemies. Does burning our enemies to stubble mean love is being practiced? And afterwards, do those spirits stop sinning? Or do they continue to sin, but via the proxies of people who continue to live?

This is the problem. As above, so below... on earth as in heaven. We can't break the cycle of evil unless we break it within ourselves. That's why Jesus said heaven is within us. When we let the Light into our hearts and allow it to expand into the hearts of others, then we get rid of the Darkness. We can't kill it away. This is why the new Jesus will have such a hard time winning the hearts of man. Principalities will work against him. Misconstrued theologies with persecute him. But he can only return love and forgive. This is what Jesus did. This is what Jacob did. This is what Joseph did. They are the example for us. They are the pattern to follow. Without such love, resentment will continue to ferment here and in the hereafter. The new Jesus comes to fix both.

All eyes will see him? Of course. Media/internet allows that... the age of Aquarius.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by mastermind77
 


So then, by christians responding to this threat are we to take it that they would consider the possibilty of the jesusgod returning in the guise of someone else ?

Perhaps thta's why paul didn't know of him the first time round and didn't recoginize him, because he's a shapeshifter?

What if when he returns in the clouds next time, he comes back as a woman.

Come to think of it considering the bible is sooo messed up, what if jesusgod came back as a GAY ?

And why wouldn't he , he changed his mind before so why not again ?

Come to think about it how can a god that changes it's mind about things ever be trusted at all ?

What if he spoke in tongues who the hell is going to interpate for him this time, the buddists?



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by moocowman

Perhaps thta's why paul didn't know of him the first time round and didn't recoginize him, because he's a shapeshifter?



Paul didn't recognize Jesus until his conversion experience on the road to Damascus. Until then, he was killing Chrisitans like St. Stephen.

Paul was confused. He had resentment and was jealous of James. Rather than work under James, Paul went off and did his own thing. It's that kind of rebellion and arrogance that created a mess for Christianity. It's the very same reason Cain killed Abel. That's the key problem that needs to be resolved before true peace can be established in the world. It's why the brothers "Ishmael" and "Isaac" are in conflict in the Middle East. Essentially the problem is a matter of rebellion against God. We just don't recognize it until we're blinded by the Light.



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by Matrix1111

Originally posted by moocowman

Perhaps thta's why paul didn't know of him the first time round and didn't recoginize him, because he's a shapeshifter?



Paul didn't recognize Jesus until his conversion experience on the road to Damascus. Until then, he was killing Chrisitans like St. Stephen.

Paul was confused. He had resentment and was jealous of James. Rather than work under James, Paul went off and did his own thing. It's that kind of rebellion and arrogance that created a mess for Christianity. It's the very same reason Cain killed Abel. That's the key problem that needs to be resolved before true peace can be established in the world. It's why the brothers "Ishmael" and "Isaac" are in conflict in the Middle East. Essentially the problem is a matter of rebellion against God. We just don't recognize it until we're blinded by the Light.


So you obviously agree with may statement, paul didn't recognize the jesusgod, meaning he didn't know what he looked like or knew anything about him. The paul alledgedly sees a light and hears a voice claimimg to be the jesusgod.

Then Paul decides his version of christianity was right and james was not a true christian, because they both had differnt versions of events.

Yes I would agree this paul would appear to be confused , very confused and it would appear that the confusion and arrogance within christianity as held fast to this day.

I note Matrixx you have not given your thoughts on the rest of my query, like what if the jesusgod changes his mind again and comes back as a woman or a gay.

Do you think that you would believe him/ her, or consider him to be the devil trying to confuse you ?



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by moocowman

I note Matrixx you have not given your thoughts on the rest of my query, like what if the jesusgod changes his mind again and comes back as a woman or a gay.

Do you think that you would believe him/ her, or consider him to be the devil trying to confuse you ?


I didn't think you were being serious. My thoughts on the matter of the purpose of Jesus, the Messiah? (I think that's the more relevant question.)

God wants to undo the mistakes of Adam and Eve. When God made Adam and Eve, he said "it is good." But after the Fall, they were no longer good.... So after purifying a lineage to the point that a sinless second Adam could be born, Jesus was born. Jesus was born in the masculine image of God. To be complete and whole, he needed to marry a purified feminine image of God, and produce a family. This didn't take place and so God spent the same amount of time as was spent raising up Judaism to raise up Christianity and the new Messiah, or third Adam. (Approximately 2,000 years.) The wife of the Messiah is of equal standing. Together they make a whole image of God.

How does homosexuality fit in with this pattern of families being the image of God, God's love and God's creation? It doesn't. Homosexuality is the result of the Fall. It is a deviation of God's ideal of love. It is not created in his image. Does God still love homosexuals? Yes. Just as much as hetrosexuals, but they are both out of sync with their true purpose of creation. They are both confused and function out of selfishness. That is the problem with all humankind. The purpose of the Messiah and his wife is to fix that problem.


[edit on 10/7/2008 by Matrix1111]



posted on Oct, 7 2008 @ 09:58 PM
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What if Jesus returned with a new identity ?


I can not quote Bible scripture but I think that we are to treat everyone with the same Love that we give to Jesus.

I get this from a Biblical passage I remember reading. It went something like this......
If a stranger comes to your door and asks for food,drink or shelter,would you give it to him...or turn him away?

Might it be Jesus at your door? Would you recognize him? Does it matter
his color,race,creed,rich,poor,deformed or beautiful ?



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