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Why Hasn't Anyone Debunked James Gilliland?

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posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by jritzmann
.

I do not have John's footage he shot there, but it will arrive to me soon, and some of what I've seen posted seems somewhat interesting, but it's very hard to tell unless I get it on a big screen and can go through it methodically.

Unlike some would portray, I am not hostile to the case or the possibility of a genuine enigma at the Ranch...as I said in my first post. There's always the idea that these things show up, because people are there to see them.

As of yet though, I can't say I'm all that intrigued by what I've seen of it. If there's better, I hope to see it.


...or you know, you could always go there and see for yourself.



...just a suggestion, (you being a ATSr conspiracy UFO master and all.)



[edit on 3-10-2008 by NightVision]




posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by NightVision
 


Well thats a good Meier argument. LOL...man why do I bother.

If I was intrigued enough, I would as I have multiple times over the years: Gulf Breeze FLA, Pine Bush NY, Scranton PA, Phoenix AZ, etc.

But I'm not intrigued enough, so I'll save my travel expenses on what I see as more worthy cases. But really, since you're so able to belabor the issue, maybe you'd take your own advice?



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by Jeremy_Vaeni
The only thing better than your post is the fact that people gave you stars.

Well thank you for your kind words. Judging by your own ATS point count I can imagine you are somewhat jealous about this.



Let me ask you: How many "contactees" claiming direct contact with Pleiadians do you know that weren't scammers or delusional?

How many Pleiadians does it take to come here in open, honest contact to never be seen by anyone but the one person making such claims before you think, 'Mmmmm... maybe there's something fishy going on here.'

While I can somewhat understand your above comment it's really besides the point in my opinion. The OP and yourself are just trying to plant the seed of doubt with comments like these. Instead of examining the evidence like the countless photo's and videos you try to discredit James Gilliland by comparing him to Billy Meijer and suggesting because he talks about Pleiadens he is delusional.

I'm personally not convinced at all that Pleiadens exist or that there are alien craft flying around Gilliland's back yard but claiming he is full of it because others that talk about Pleiadens are "abviously" nuts is rather sad in my opinion.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 11:43 AM
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Since we are all allowed opinions and to express them freely, I believe the OP is entitled to his 'opinion'...
You have the right to not believe anything you read, see or hear.
Regardless of your opinion of James Gilliland, there have been many accounts of believers and non-believers that have walked away from the ranch after having a life altering experience and witnessing phenomenon that they could not explain.
I think it's a shame that you call someone a liar and try to nullify all accounts as faked or staged.
I know Johnny Anonymous and he is of the highest caliber humans you will ever meet. He came back from that ranch with many events that he simply could not explain. It altered his perspective on several topics that he would easily be skeptical about and he even states this in his investigation.

ATS spent a lot of money and time to investigate this. Just because you had a bad day or were misinformed does not warrant poo-poo'ing serious work that others are trying to accomplish or bring to light.
ATS has said from the beginning that this was a preliminary investigation.
I am thankful they have spent so much time and money on this.

I personally witnessed aerial phenomenon with Johnny A up in Calistoga, California with Ed Grimsley. I saw my first UFO's through Gen 3 Night Vision goggles. Satellites do not change direction, fly in groups, blink intermittently or power up. Are they extraterrestrial ? We may never know.
Until something extraordinary or supernatural happens to you, you are entitled to your opinion. But it's shameful to slam others because you simply do not believe and do not have enough proof.
Something is happening in our skies whether you want to believe it or not.
Possibly it's a spiritual experience and you lack the awakened soul to perceive or believe in anything you cannot touch, taste, see or feel.
Too many people have witnessed unexplainable events at Gilliland's Ranch.
From Housewives to top scientists from all over the world.
Slamming James for his beliefs and claims does not take away the fact that supernatural phenomenon exists.

Hopefully you don't believe in Karma either...it's a boomerang.
I suggest you randomly duck every once in a while because you aren't going to see it coming.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by jritzmann


Well thats a good Meier argument. LOL...man why do I bother.


Visiting the Gilliland Ranch, that has alleged UFO activity has nothing to do with the Meier case.



But I'm not intrigued enough, so I'll save my travel expenses on what I see as more worthy cases. But really, since you're so able to belabor the issue, maybe you'd take your own advice?


I have been there. The major players of the ATS team have been there. NASA scientists and military witnesses have been there. Anything else?



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 11:53 AM
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By Meier argument he meant that it's the same kind of argument he gets when he argues about the Meier case. That, inevitably, someone says that he can't make an informed opinion until he actually goes to visit Meier.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by NightVision
Visiting the Gilliland Ranch, that has alleged UFO activity has nothing to do with the Meier case.


Oh yeah it does, because thats an often brought up issue by supporters in answer to those who debunked it. "You haven't been there". One need not go there to examine evidence thats already sorely lacking. Nor does it warrant going if there's nothing visually compelling enough. I haven't seen anything visually compelling enough. If we had structured craft, or something of that kind, I'd have already been there as I have for many other cases.



Originally posted by NightVision
I have been there. The major players of the ATS team have been there. NASA scientists and military witnesses have been there. Anything else?


Anything else? Yeah. What footage do you have? Post it up.

Otherwise, this "debate" is getting old and tired. I've already stated my points of which there's been no rebuttal, just some goalpost moving.

So lets see whatcha got.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by Xcalibur254
 


Thank you. I understood what he meant. Lets not turn this into another Billy Meier thread. Pretty please.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by NightVision
 


"Visiting the Gilliland Ranch, that has alleged UFO activity has nothing to do with the Meier case. "

Obviously not. Anyway, we're not discussing it anyway...just an observation. Btw, if you have footage, lets get to it, I have no time today after 2pmedt.



[edit on 3-10-2008 by jritzmann]



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by jritzmann
 


Trust me, if I had any footage worth showing it would've been posted by now.

I don't suppose it occurred to you to thank your ATS team for traveling to the ranch and videotaping at their own expense? It is wise to follow their lead, and lead by example.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by NightVision]



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by NightVision
 


I have been in contact with Springer and John, I don't see what business that is to you though. My conversations with them are basically my business and theirs.

Again, more attempts at marginalization. Please, just know when to quit.

Any footage from you? Or...am I wasting my time in asking.

Btw, we'll need your real name (privately if you like) so we can verify in some way that you were at the Ranch, and provided footage was actually recorded there.

Just lemme know if I'm wasting my time asking...I have work to do.

EDIT: Ok, clearly wasting my time.


[edit on 3-10-2008 by jritzmann]



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by jritzmann

I have been in contact with Springer and John, I don't see what business that is to you though. My conversations with them are basically my business and theirs.

Again, more attempts at marginalization. Please, just know when to quit.


Showing common gratitude is a courtesy extended to those trying to further UFOlogy. If this in some way marginalizes what you do, please accept my apology.


Any footage from you? Or...am I wasting my time in asking.


I've already answered this question in my above post.


Btw, we'll need your real name (privately if you like) so we can verify in some way that you were at the Ranch, and provided footage was actually recorded there.



Providing you with my real name would not verify that I was there, other than logs kept by staff at the Gilliland ranch.


Just lemme know if I'm wasting my time asking...I have work to do.


With your busy schedule, you've somehow managed to spend two hours with me on this thread. Its not all in vein though, so don't worry. I think its clear this thread has turned into an entertaining spectacle to behold.



[edit on 3-10-2008 by NightVision]



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by NightVision
Providing you with my real name would not verify that I was there, other than logs kept by staff at the Gilliland ranch.


Well yeah, thats kinda the point.


Originally posted by NightVision
With your busy schedule, you've somehow managed to spend two hours with me on this thread. Its not all in vein though, so don't worry. I think its clear this thread has turned into an entertaining spectacle to behold.


As I said, I have limited time and none after 2pm.

I agree it's definitely a spectacle. Maybe you'll be a bit more careful from here on out. I have hope.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by jritzmann
 


Jeff, you're a great guy and all, but I'm not going to call up the ranch and have them go through records just to prove to you that I was there. Your line of questioning is backwards. Instead of asking for pictures, you want my travel itinerary. You want my Southwest ticket receipt? What next? A Driver's license?

I'll wait while you come up with a clever response....take your time.





[edit on 3-10-2008 by NightVision]



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by NightVision
 


NightVision, I don't know why you're wasting your time bickering with jritzmann like this.

Gilliland's Ranch has everything going for it - loads of witnesses, neat footage, and now ATS has even gone there and captured some neat stuff for themselves.

At this point I couldn't care less what jritzmann's opinion is, even if his analysis comes back negative....


[edit on 3-10-2008 by MrdDstrbr]



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by NightVision
reply to post by jritzmann
 


Jeff, you're a great guy and all, but I'm not going to call up the ranch and have them go through records just to prove to you that I was there. Your line of questioning is backwards. Instead of asking for pictures, you want my travel itinerary. You want my Southwest ticket receipt? What next? A Driver's license?

I'll wait while you come up with a clever response....take your time.


Uh, verification is the first part of the deal kiddo, so thats not "backwards". Thats basic investigation (of which us ATS experts stunningly lack according to you) No, you wouldn't call the Ranch, I would, thats called independent verification.

I asked for visual data, and you said you had none. Again sir, you're arguing with no ammunition.

Please just stop, because at this point you've nothing left to hurl at me but contradictions, and I don't need to feed the need for negative attention.

Have a good weekend all.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
At this point I couldn't care less what jritzmann's opinion is, even if his analysis comes back negative....



Well, thats nice. Should I not waste my time then?



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by jritzmann

Uh, verification is the first part of the deal kiddo, so thats not "backwards". Thats basic investigation (of which us ATS experts stunningly lack according to you) No, you wouldn't call the Ranch, I would, thats called independent verification.


Right. Because investigating NightVision is the first step to finding out if the phenomena is real at the Gilliland Ranch. Got it. Thanks.



I asked for visual data, and you said you had none. Again sir, you're arguing with no ammunition.


Incorrect. I never stated I had anything noteworthy. I do have visual data, but it is pictures of serene mountains and trees. You want those?


Please just stop, because at this point you've nothing left to hurl at me but contradictions, and I don't need to feed the need for negative attention.

Have a good weekend all.


The only contradiction I see is you spending your time investigating ONE GUY who said he's been to the ranch, rather than the footage presented thus far by others.



Originally posted by MrdDstrbr

Gilliland's Ranch has everything going for it - loads of witnesses, neat footage, and now ATS has gone even gone there and captured some neat stuff for themselves.

At this point I couldn't care less what jritzmann's opinion is, even if his analysis comes back negative....



Agreed. I'll let your post speak for itself.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by NightVision]

[edit on 3-10-2008 by NightVision]



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by jritzmann
 


Sorry, just being honest.


I know there are large chunks of ATS that value your opinion, and biedny's very highly; but you are way too negatively biased for me.....



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by NightVision
Right. Because investigating NightVision is the first step to finding out if the phenomena is real at the Gilliland Ranch. Got it. Thanks.


No. Because you said you went, and steadfastly maintain issues you've already been demonstrably corrected on. Hey you went this direction, not me. Any reply on verification? I guess not.


Originally posted by NightVision
Incorrect. I do have visual data, but it is pictures of serene mountains and trees. You want those?


Well that wouldn't make much sense since they aren't UO shots. So, is this basically trying to prove you were there? I don't see the point in verifying the existence of trees and mountains. You claimed you'd "been there", and that implied some knowledge gained from that trip. Since the subject here is visual data...what was your point. I guess there was none other then some sort of one-up thing. I dunno, I'm at a loss there.


Originally posted by NightVision
The only contradiction I see is you spending your time investigating ONE GUY who said he's been to the ranch, rather than the footage presented thus far by others.


Uh, all I did was ask. Excuse me for asking if you had footage and if you could verify it. You brought up being there, not me.

It's really pretty abundantly clear you've some sort of issue with me, as you've not responded to the real issue of the thread which was my opinion of why the case hasn't been debunked and your summarily posted footage. I certainly don't take a "hard line" on the case, just one based on what I've seen so far. My opinion wasn't a debunk, but a maybe.

This has really all stemmed from your maligning comment that us ATS experts don't do our "homework". Yet you hold no knowledge on which to base your statement, nor the most basic information about it.

These are really poor stances to take in defense of *anything*, and again are part of why we're in the crap we are with UFO studies.

We as a collected community have to point these issues out, because otherwise whats the point in deluding ourselves. Unless thats what we all want. I know I don't.

We need to suspend belief for knowledge. Otherwise, the debunker's have a field day.

Anyway NightVision, I'd say at this point you're pretty transparent to anyone bothering to actually read our conversation. Moving goalposts seems to be your forte.

So, you just tear me up...I won't dignify another reply to you in this thread, because you've no basis for any debate. I honestly believe it's just negative attention you crave.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by jritzmann]



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