It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Christian excused from war

page: 1
2

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 12:31 AM
link   

Christian excused from war


www.mnweekly.ru

ANCHORAGE, Alaska (AP) - A federal judge has ordered the U.S. Army to grant conscientious objector status and an honorable discharge to a soldier who says he experienced a religious awakening in Iraq.

The ruling supersedes the Army's decision last year to deny Pfc. Michael Barnes' request. Barnes had told the Army that his religious experience two years ago left him opposed to war in any form.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 12:31 AM
link   

U.S. District Judge John Sedwick said military investigators failed to provide ‘'a basis in fact'' to support their contention that Barnes' religious objections to war were insincere.

Barnes, a 26-year-old native of Portland, Oregon, said Monday in a statement released by his lawyer that he was thankful the court found his request was based on his ‘'sincere belief as a Christian.''

Barnes enlisted in the Army in March 2005 and arrived in Iraq in September 2006.
"I have been trying to justify being a soldier and finding a way to do so while still being a Christian,'' Barnes wrote in his request for conscientious objector status in December 2006.


Wrote it in 2006??? Way to attend to a soldier's needs.


So I got a question:

If a soldier can be dismissed on honorable discharge for conscientious objector status, why shouldn't he be able to be dismissed with the same status for refusing to obey an illegal order to torture or kill?

www.mnweekly.ru
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 01:14 AM
link   
Well that was convenient wasn't it! They should have some MP's follow up with his "awakening" a few months after he gets home; see how that's working out for him.



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 01:35 AM
link   
Exactly: "I've decided war isn't nearly enough like Doom for me to enjoy, I'm going to blaaaaaag"

He'd better become a priest when he get's home.



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 01:49 AM
link   
Eh. Good Lord. (no pun intended)

I have an ex-boyfriend who was an airborne ranger....involved in some [known] conflicts in other parts of the world.

He had a jump accident during training, broke his back and while in rehab "found God".

Then 911 happened and he decided that due to his new found faith, he couldn't be in the Army anymore and somehow got out via conscientious objector, before they stopped anyone from getting out at that time.

Well, I met him just after all of this...And yup, he "found God" all right. So much so, he went to the extreme radical end of it and it was way too much for me
thus the reason, he is an "ex"


So, I do believe it happens. But I also think its a coward way out. I believe he (and others) should fulfill their contract and then get out.

But hey, Ive never been in the military, so really, I may have no room to speak.

For those interested....here is a back story on him:



newsminer.com...
ANCHORAGE -- The U.S. Attorney's Office in Anchorage is protesting a magistrate's ruling on the conscientious objector status of a soldier.

Pfc. Michael Barnes was denied conscientious objector status by an Army review board.

However, a magistrate ruled earlier this month that the board had erred.

Barnes, a 26-year-old paratrooper in the 4th Airborne Brigade Combat Team, enlisted in the Army for five years in 2005. He says during a tour of duty in Iraq his Christian faith became stronger and he became morally opposed to war.



.....

Army officials found that Barnes' request was at odds with him saying previously he wanted to serve in Iraq. They also noted that the request came three months after his deployment to Iraq. And they said officers in his chain of command were never made aware of his objections to the war until he was reassigned in December 2006 to serve as a gunner.



So, he was already a "Christian" and decided AFTER he wanted to go to Iraq he was a CO.

Eh. * shrugh*



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 02:09 AM
link   

Originally posted by ANoNyMiKE
Well that was convenient wasn't it! They should have some MP's follow up with his "awakening" a few months after he gets home; see how that's working out for him.


I'm sure he wouldn't be torturing or murdering anyone... you know there isn't a war going on at home, so I'm not sure what the heck you're talking about... check up on his opinions on war? ....... . and murdering people? oooooh you mean his spiritual awakening.. yeh let's attack the weakest point.. why don't you go off somewhere quiet or go murder and pillage the world.

I don't care what excuse you have to use to not participate in stupidity, any reason is better than serving.

Maybe the religious nature, mass marketing and PR Campaign of the war made it seem so irresistible and tempting to "serve the lord" I mean .. serve your country.
After-all didn't you know we're fighting EVIL over there?.. /sarcasm

[edit on 10/2/2008 by PuRe EnErGy]



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 03:25 AM
link   
I moved into a neighborhood when I was in my early 20s and met some of my neighbors that were hippie looking and very religious. One of the guys that I got to be friends with had been relocated to work in the laundry at the county hospital instead of being drafted during Vietnam because of his C.O. status due to his beliefs. He knew that I had served in Vietnam as a Marine. We openly talked and I asked him, if he was in the jungle armed with a rifle and confronted with an enemy soldier that was raising his rifle to kill him, what would you do? He told me he would say, Stop in the name of the Lord. I explained that the enemy would not understand him and he would be dead, and that was O.K. with him, but he would not kill. He was the real deal, willing to work hundreds of miles away from home for crap wages at a job that was of service to mankind in a hell hole of a hospital. I have to admit that I admired him for what he did. There are people like that and they aren't all cowards.



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 04:36 AM
link   

Originally posted by hypervigilant
He told me he would say, Stop in the name of the Lord. I explained that the enemy would not understand him and he would be dead, and that was O.K. with him, but he would not kill.


Priceless. What the hell is he doing in the army?

But I love those who stake everything on faith...because God's all-seeing eye is always blinking at just that moment they need the bullet stopped.



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 04:50 AM
link   
I find it funny how alot of people here can laugh at a man for literally seeing himself be thrown in the lions den, when they themselves have never experienced that feeling.

Until you know what its like being on the front lines and staring death right in the face, you don't have a right to mock this man.



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 06:26 AM
link   
reply to post by hypervigilant
 


True, if the Lord has that appointed time for you to die, that's what will happen.



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 06:52 AM
link   

Originally posted by dodgygeeza
I find it funny how alot of people here can laugh at a man for literally seeing himself be thrown in the lions den, when they themselves have never experienced that feeling.

Until you know what its like being on the front lines and staring death right in the face, you don't have a right to mock this man.


He wasn't conscripted, you know.



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 07:18 AM
link   
reply to post by C.C.Benjamin
 


Like someone said before, its all fun, adventure and war games until you're actually involved in a real life battle or you become something you'd never thought you'd ever become. Your mortality suddenly becomes extremely real.

Just look at the recruitment adverts. They don't advertise urinating yourself through absolute terror, the killing of innocents, or watching your friends die in the most horrific of ways. Post traumatic stress lasts your entire life.

I'd guess that there are alot of soldiers who join up to help people, but quickly become disillusioned when they realise thats just a big load of crap. So being scared isn't the only reason why some people might want to get out.

[edit on 2-10-2008 by dodgygeeza]



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 02:43 PM
link   
reply to post by C.C.Benjamin
 

Hi CC, He wasn't ever in the Army. He was forced to suffer being relocated from his home town in Idaho, away from his family and to work at Parkland Hospital in Dallas handling all of the filthy bedding and surgical gowns and such for the same length of time that he would have served if drafted into military service.



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 03:15 PM
link   
reply to post by dodgygeeza
 

Dodgy, Combat veterans do get put through the wringer, and you are right about PTSD. I think that I would prefer a diagnosis of leprosy. I have been awake for over 36 hours, left for a medical appointment at 04:30 drove 300 miles round trip. I drove 218 miles to and from to another VA hospital 4 days ago and both are for service connected disabilities that I was discharged with 39 years ago.



posted on Oct, 2 2008 @ 09:09 PM
link   
So isn't there any kind of entrance assessment they do of a person's faith and the likelihood that they'd later (during duty) want out based on CO?

And what if an American soldier becomes a Muslim while he's fighting in Iraq and then wants out? Do they stone him to death or give him CO status too?



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 01:24 AM
link   
People that really want out of combat will do about anything including, chopping off a thumb, constant masturbation, self inflicted gunshot wounds, including one fatal shot, a medical corpsman that shot up all of the morphine in his unit 1 medical kit, and one guy that had sent letters to a stateside newspaper about the details of murders that he was confessing to. These are things that I know about first hand. During Vietnam there were antiwar activist that coached people on how to fail the Army draft physical and psychological exams, and there were people that joined the Marines with preexisting medical conditions that were still accepted. Some of them made it through Boot Camp and some healthy athletic brutes didn't. I have heard of draft exemptions for C.O.s but never of a discharge from service. I don't think that a military chaplain would even be understanding with a person that tried the get a discharge using C.O. as the reason. Like I said, there are other ways to get out.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 01:33 AM
link   
An Israeli girl recently got busted and forced to enlist in the Israeli military (2 year obligation for most citizens) after claiming that she couldn't go to the military due to religious reasons. Someone saw pictures of her myspace or facebook (whatever it was) with her partying, wearing inappropriate clothing, and breaking the Sabbath. She is now serving her term.

This guy better be careful.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 02:38 AM
link   
I should probably note that conscientious objector status can be claimed by ANY soldier during war or not during war. I was in the Air Force 1997-2003 (not during a major conflict) but every once in a while you would hear about it happening. I do not have a personal bias against Christianity, but I DO have a personal bias against religion in general. For any one religion to claim to know what happens to us when we die doesn't make any sense. And believing in any one religion in particular means that you disagree with the majority of humans on the planet about life, death, and God. Statistically, that seems pretty arrogant. I just don't have the same willingness to denounce the majority of the world to give credence to faith-based beliefs about spirituality and God.

Anyway..
There was a recent news story about a soldier in Iraq who decided to leave Christianity behind to be an atheist (doesn't sound so surprising in a war zone). He was belittled, threatened (he literally received multiple death threats) and he sais he was denied promotions supposedly because of not being a "Christian leader". He received so many death threats he was actually assigned a personal body guard while he was still in Iraq... Just to protect him from the other troops. That's pretty shocking. He ended up suing the Army for "unconstitutional discrimination" because he made a conscious decision to be an atheist and was discriminated against because of it. Not sure what ever came of it.. You can see my posts there for all my detailed thoughts on this case.
(see the ATS thread about this HERE )

Also, I don't know if anyone has seen these videos but they are pretty disturbing.. These are just a couple I know of..





-ChriS



new topics

top topics



 
2

log in

join