Earliest Reference Describes Christ as 'Magician'

Earliest Reference Describes Christ as 'Magician'

dsc.discovery.com

Oct. 1, 2008 -- A team of scientists led by renowned French marine archaeologist Franck Goddio recently announced that they have found a bowl, dating to between the late 2nd century B.C. and the early 1st century A.D., that is engraved with what they believe could be the world's first known reference to Christ.
If the word "Christ" refers to the Biblical Jesus Christ, as is speculated, then the discovery may provide evidence that Christianity and paganism at times intertwined in the ancient world.

The full engraving on the bowl reads, "DIA CHRSTOU O GOISTAIS," which has been interpreted by the excavation team to mean either, "by Christ the magician" or, "the magician by Christ."

(visit the link for the full news article)

Personally I think it could be a reference to many possible people although the time period would suggest according to our modern interpretations, that it would seem be the biblical Jesus the Christ.

Either way, the gnostic version of Jesus was also "questionable" according to cannon and the current ruling church.

I think that the church with-holds lots of information about biblical texts/scriptures that have been found all over the world, and that also isn't saying how many secret societies may have certain sections of text that are much older and much more accurate.

This is a big, big planet with lots of very unique things occurring all the time.

dsc.discovery.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Yep, people have been burned at the stake for the same things that Jesus supposedly did and believed.

Paganistic belief is what many of today's religious holidays are based from.

It sure is ironic that the same people that would deny that magick is real also celebrate potentially the greatest magician of them all...

Makes sense, I don’t believe the bible, however either way in reference to Jesus Christ this could make sense. If you are religious perhaps it validates to you that Jesus was really magical, in the sense that he could make miracles happen, hence a magician reference. Or if you aren’t religious and think the whole thing is a sham perhaps this makes you lean towards Jesus’ power being an illusion and that he was good at magician’s tricks, like turning water to wine. Anyway I don’t see how the name being “Christ” on the bowl automatically means it refers to Jesus Christ. Seems like a stretch.

Christ is the English term for the Greek Χριστός (Khristós) meaning "the anointed".[1] In the (Greek) Septuagint version of the Old Testament, Khristós was used to translate the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Mašíaḥ,) (Messiah), meaning "[one who is] anointed." [2] Many modern Christians explicitly describe Christ as both fully human and fully God, while the Jewish tradition understands the Messiah as a human being without any overtone of deity or divinity.[3]

I lean more to the side of esoteric Christianity (though I'm not a full believer, I'd give it more validity-points than orthodox) in believing that "Christ" is the internal connection with the Father that we all possess it even though some of us do not have awakened it.

So I think that Jesus was just one example of an 'anointed one'. Perhaps also the word 'magician' may have had a different connotation way back then.

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
Anyway I don’t see how the name being “Christ” on the bowl automatically means it refers to Jesus Christ. Seems like a stretch.

Exactly, although the title Christ was reserved for "special" people... it did mean anointed, more specifically with oil, (the contents of which have been speculated to be cannabis/hemp)
Information Regarding the Oil

I would be interested to find out what the vessel contained, it could lead to more startling/speculative information.

The funny thing is Magic is Sorcery. Sorcery is Pharmacy. Pharmacy is drugs.
St. Patrick talked about how the apostles used magic to gain followers, saying they were "Miracles".

The names in the bible are characteristics, literally. Jesus translates, "Self existent is salvation"...with Christ meaning anointed.

They anointed with sHemen oil or semen, because Christ is everyone born into the world. To serve in the temple, is to serve up loving in the Temple of the body so that "Christ can prepare a place for you"...in the form of offspring in your image. Generation to Generation is "Self Existent" (Title of the living God) salvation.

Just like curing people. In the original languages, meant simply to care for someone and wait on them. No magic involved just love.

Thing is, no one will ever know these things because they are only in the original languages as Hebrew and Greek can have 50 plus meanings to our 1 in English, hence good ol King James started the mental slavery in "Babylon" which means "Confusion". The bible is sealed in these languages and can only be properly understood word for word and is why, "Those who seek, shall find, and those who knock, the door will be opened, and those who ask, will be given." Blind faith is just that, Blind and those follow it fall into a ditch called a "Grave".

Peace

[edit on 1-10-2008 by letthereaderunderstand]

Originally posted by Reddupo
Christ is the English term for the Greek Χριστός (Khristós) meaning "the anointed".[1] In the (Greek) Septuagint version of the Old Testament, Khristós was used to translate the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Mašíaḥ,) (Messiah), meaning "[one who is] anointed." [2] Many modern Christians explicitly describe Christ as both fully human and fully God, while the Jewish tradition understands the Messiah as a human being without any overtone of deity or divinity.[3]

I lean more to the side of esoteric Christianity (though I'm not a full believer, I'd give it more validity-points than orthodox) in believing that "Christ" is the internal connection with the Father that we all possess it even though some of us do not have awakened it.

So I think that Jesus was just one example of an 'anointed one'. Perhaps also the word 'magician' may have had a different connotation way back then.

All very good points, I also study the more esoteric sides of most religions.

I merely thought that this was somewhat important information to discuss and since this is a discussion board I figured why not hold an intelligent conversation on the possibilities of this new find; I also wonder what else they found down there, I'm sure there were other items, after all a magician does use more "tools" than just one vessel.

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
The funny thing is Magic is Sorcery. Sorcery is Pharmacy. Pharmacy is drugs.
St. Patrick talked about how the apostles used magic to gain followers, saying they were "Miracles".

The names in the bible are characteristics, literally. Jesus translates, "Self existent is salvation"...with Christ meaning anointed.

They anointed with sHemen oil or semen, because Christ is everyone born into the world. To serve in the temple, is to serve up loving in the Temple of the body so that "Christ can prepare a place for you"...in the form of offspring in your image. Generation to Generation is "Self Existent" (Title of the living God) salvation.

Just like curing people. In the original languages, meant simply to care for someone and wait on them. No magic involved just love.

Thing is, no one will ever know these things because they are only in the original languages as Hebrew and Greek can have 50 plus meanings to our 1 in English, hence good ol King James started the mental slavery in "Babylon" which means "Confusion".

Peace

Well this is definitely one viable explanation, another one I have already referenced in the above post, this is where I believe this whole FAITH thing to play a very large part, depending on each person it could mean many different things but because it happened in antiquity I think we'll really have to do tests on things like this to be sure, the Vatican should release the goodies they have hidden away.

reply to post by Reddupo


Cite your sources!

Wikipedia thief!

[edit on 1-10-2008 by Sublime620]

I have just begun to look into the esoteric, which is why this thread caught my eye. Having been a christian my most of my life (until college that is), it has been hard for me to figure out what I think of Jesus now that I am a non-believer. This theory is something that I find plausible and will be checking into more.

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy


Pure Energy...Information Society...Awesome I loved that song.

People don't have faith, they have blind faith having not experienced the "witness of Jesus". Blind Faith is exactly that, blind and the blind fall into a ditch also called the grave.

People think they are saving people by "witnessing" to them, but exactly the opposite is happening. This might offend some and I apologize if it does, but I will not speak falsely of Christ anymore, as I have done so my whole life, until I received the "witness of Jesus" which is true, calling out to you saying "repent for the kingdom of God is at hand".

He only loves those that love him. To sell all that you have and follow him, is to be a parent to the "son of man". Jesus told Nicodemus who came to him in the night, "How can I explain heavenly things, if you don't even understand earthly things" supposing(Nicodemus) that he must reenter his mothers womb as a senior. He didn't understand, being a priest, that one must have a child in order to give ascension to the "Christ" as he is with all men, even unto the end of the age. His reward is with him and such is our lives.

Male means "Remembered" and is why it is a male that leads with a "rod of Iron". Not trying to be vulgar, but think of what the "Rod of Iron" is and how it will lead.

The adversary has demonized the one thing that is true, procreation. This is why the Vatican is against Birth Control, because Satan wants more slaves who don't know he is lying. "If possible even the elect would be fooled".

"It is easier for a Gamal/Gama to go through the eye of a needle then for a rich man to enter into heaven". Gama energy, is pure energy and is sperm which goes through the "eye" of a needle/penis. Sperm is the mustard seed being sown by the "son of man". Some produce 30 generations, some 60, some 100 generations, "yet 120" is full or the spirit would fail before him. 70 Generations were given hence 30 to 100.

Genesis is the "Complete Genealogy of all the hosts of heaven in the day they were made". A running story of the complete Genesis which means Generations. Genesis is finishing up, not in the past, but current..."To this day". Adam has not been presented Eve yet, as we are still asleep. The first shall be last and the last shall be first.

The tower(s) of Confusion just fell 7 years ago and the workers languages confused, so that they do not understand one another and have left off working on it. It was a holograph, no it was a drone, no it was a pod, no it was a bomb...get my drift?

Sodom (burnt) and Gomorrah (a heap) who's names are representative of Volcanic/BaalCain activity which is because of their locations (along the pacific rim) happened in 1945. "Who has told you the End from the Beginning"

Now comes the hard part, there is only one major event left to take place..."As in the days of Noakh(rest)"

Peace

So this may indeed prove that people did know of Christ before hundreds of years after his death like some on this website like to say. I wonder what they think now that a cup almost certainly from the time period right around the life and death of Jesus was found with "Christ" on it.

No matter the rest of the inscription, if it indeed is a reference to Jesus Christ then he obviously existed and was known in other places around the middle east in early A.D., not made up hundreds of years afterward.

To anyone who knows Biblical or Christian References, Jesus was visited at Birth by the "Magi", or the "Three Wise Men", also known as the "Three Kings". The word Magi derives from an ancient Priest Sect which came into existence within the 7th Century (B.C.) Median Empire. By the time Jesus of Nazareth was born, the Magi were dwelling in what was then the Parthian Empire. This Priestly Order followed what was known then as "Astrology", yet in many forms it also resembles our Modern Science of "Astronomy".

This sect/order held a highly respected position within the Parthian Empire, as they quite literally assembled the "Upper House" of the "Council of Megistanes". This particular position placed upon them the responsibility of Electing the King of Parthia. So in other words, they themselves held the power of the King of this Empire, hence, "The Three Kings".

Now "Magi" is also the source word from which we derive the modern term "Magician". The Magi of Parthia were considered Practitioners of Magic in many respects, due to their Priestly Status, the Ancient Order to which they belonged, and their ability to Interpret the Heavens, also hence, "The Wise Men".

With all of the aforementioned considered, if Jesus were to be labelled a "Magi" it would mean that he held a position of High Regard, representing Wisdom, and he contained Vast Knowledge of the unknown through his Status of being a "Priestly Individual". It seems a truly befitting label if you consider the History surrounding Jesus Christ, and what he has always represented.

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy

This is a big, big planet with lots of very unique things occurring all the time.

Yes, and lets not discount forgery and the many ways forgery has improved over time.
"Many will run here and there..."...

It could very well also mean "The magic of Christ".
Which many people of the time would view his healing etc as magical.