Vice Presidential Debate- Palin vs. Biden: The Thread

The VP is the President of the Senate, but shall have no vote except as a tiebreaker. He/she also presides over and certifies the vote of the electoral college.

Straight from Article 1, Section 3 of the Constitution.

However, the VP can sit in any session of the Senate he/she so desires.

The VP also has informal duties:

The informal roles and functions of the Vice President depend on the specific relationship between the President and the Vice President, but often include drafter and spokesperson for the administration's policy, as an adviser to the president, as Chairman of the Board of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), as a Member of the board of the Smithsonian Institution, and as a symbol of American concern or support. The influence of the Vice President in this role depends almost entirely on the characteristics of the particular administration.

en.wikipedia.org...

As Senate President, can the VP debate in Senatorial proceedings? I'm not sure..

I think Palin was referring to expanding the "informal duties" of the VP. I see no problem with her answer.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by jsobecky]

Double post..sorry.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by jsobecky]

Palin was out of her league in the debate. When the moderator asked the biggest question of the debate: what caused the current financial mess, Palin didn't even answer her. Instead, she rattled off some prepared diversion about who raised taxes. Biden called her on it, but she avoided answering the question in her rebuttal, also. The least educated "Joe Six-pack," as Palin referred to the average US male in the debate (believe it or not) could see plain as day that she was afraid to even talk about it.

Worse yet, she sat on a national stage doing tacky little tricks: she actually tried to wink at intervals--a pathetic act (it seems to be so ingrained in her routine that she couldn't suppress it--even on a national stage); she kept nodding to try to underscore her evasive chatter and when she began to tell false info she actually shook her head as if to say NO, repeatedly. She kept making weird little expressions that a Miss Wasilla contestant might try in a high school gymn: out of place smiles, bleacher cheer blather (she gave "extra credit" to her sister's 3rd grade students who were watching---15 seconds on that, absolute zero on why Wall St. wants your money NOW, or else), and she made numerous winky house frau gestures--mostly hypnotic puff as if to show her solidarity with semi-literate homemakers.

It was all about trying to appeal to Middle American viewers, a game that Biden beat her at soundly---his logic was clear, tempered and to the point for average viewers, while Palin didn't even resemble a person ready for the national stage. I'm surprised she didn't quote TV reality shows as if they are gospel.

At least she didn't blame it all on "muk-luks," Palins derogatory way of referring to Inuit native people of Alaska.

reply to post by jsobecky

However, the VP can sit in any session of the Senate he/she so desires.

You are correct. That is the extent of their power in relation to the legislative branch though. There is nothing in the constitution that provide the VP with any other powers that Palin believes in. An example:

"the Constitution would allow a bit more authority given to the vice president if that vice president so chose to exert it in working with the Senate."


What?

I was just wondering,

Why did we watch the debate at all, I never watch debates, this was all about Sarah, whether ya love her, or hate her, ya wanted to see her succeed, or fail, we tuned into to watch her.

I don't like politicians, but I like her, she seems authentic and is not a political insider as far as I can see so far, time will tell.

I have a theory. Things may be not what they seem,



[edit on 023131p://bFriday2008 by Stormdancer777]

I am still trying to digest one of Joe Biden's comments.

Where he said that judges should be able to change the terms of people's loans both interest and PRINCIPAL.

I work in finance, and that statement is nothing short of chilling. Forget about the banks. Think of your own life. What happens if you "owner finance" the sale of your own home. Then your debtor calls a judge who says, "the payor is having a bad week. They don't owe you a hundred thousand, they only owe you 10 thousand. Next."

Can you imagine, having a judge re-evaluate your mortgage (i.e., your property value)?!??! Not an economist. Not a banker. Not even a math teacher. A judge, which is nothing more than a lawyer in a black sheet.


And what's to say that judgments couldn't go the other way? You only thought you owed five grand on your student loan. But a judge in your bank's home district has decided that you're "rich" because of your fancy pants education. He resets your loan to, say, one hundred thousand.

If Biden's threat ever becomes reality, it spells the doom of the american credit market.


next.

yikes!!!! double post.

[edit on 3-10-2008 by dr_strangecraft]

reply to post by Grafilthy

Originally posted by Grafilthy

You are correct. That is the extent of their power in relation to the legislative branch though. There is nothing in the constitution that provide the VP with any other powers that Palin believes in. An example:

"the Constitution would allow a bit more authority given to the vice president if that vice president so chose to exert it in working with the Senate."


What?

What she meant was that, even though the VP does not traditionally work in session with the Senate, that is by convention only, and not by Constitutional prohibition. Thus the position of President pro tempore.

There is a problem with exercising powers like this. The problem is, the fact that they have not been used in recent memory leads most people to believe that they are prohibited, and any admin that uses them is "recreating" or "shredding" the Constitution. The fact is, they were empowered all along, and just chose this particular moment to exercise them.

It's just a matter of (un)education.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

I am still trying to digest one of Joe Biden's comments.

Where he said that judges should be able to change the terms of people's loans both interest and PRINCIPAL.

Oh yeah, thanks for bringing this up... that caught my attention, too. I do not work in finance, but this seems like a really bad idea, to me.

I can see having those judges adjust interest rates and monthly payments, but principle? No.

That's just crazy...

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
I am still trying to digest one of Joe Biden's comments. Where he said that judges should be able to change the terms of people's loans both interest and PRINCIPAL.

i forgot about that. My husband and looked at each other and went OMG! Thanks for the reminder. That was a strange and/or frightening notion coming from him on this! I'd definately have to hear more from him on this. It just sounded wrong.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Here is the question and answer you are referring to:

IFILL: Senator Biden, you voted for this bankruptcy bill. Senator Obama voted against it. Some people have said that mortgage- holders really paid the price.

BIDEN: Well, mortgage-holders didn't pay the price. Only 10 percent of the people who are -- have been affected by this whole switch from Chapter 7 to Chapter 13 -- it gets complicated.

But the point of this -- Barack Obama saw the glass as half- empty. I saw it as half-full. We disagreed on that, and 85 senators voted one way, and 15 voted the other way.

But here's the deal. Barack Obama pointed out two years ago that there was a subprime mortgage crisis and wrote to the secretary of Treasury. And he said, "You'd better get on the stick here. You'd better look at it."

John McCain said as early as last December, quote -- I'm paraphrasing -- "I'm surprised about this subprime mortgage crisis," number one.

Number two, with regard to bankruptcy now, Gwen, what we should be doing now -- and Barack Obama and I support it -- we should be allowing bankruptcy courts to be able to re-adjust not just the interest rate you're paying on your mortgage to be able to stay in your home, but be able to adjust the principal that you owe, the principal that you owe.

That would keep people in their homes, actually help banks by keeping it from going under. But John McCain, as I understand it -- I'm not sure of this, but I believe John McCain and the governor don't support that. There are ways to help people now. And there -- ways that we're offering are not being supported by -- by the Bush administration nor do I believe by John McCain and Governor Palin.

elections.nytimes.com...

Biden earned the nickname "Senator of the MBNA" for his work on the bankruptcy bill, which made life much more difficult for many Americans.

I personally enjoyed where Biden had to point out to Palin that a $5000 credit towards health care works fairly the same as Obama's plan. The quantity of money necessary is similar, only the way it gets to the taxpayers is different.

He could have taken it a step further and discussed how Americans are already footing the bill through excessive insurance prices (due to doctors not receiving any real substantial amount from Medicaid and Medicare patients).

I thought the debate was pretty close. Neither really seemed very strong to me. Biden kept smirking and Palin couldn't shut up about Alaska and her "Maverick".

MSNBC called it to Palin though, so I assume she's the winner. I never heard what their reasons were, just that "they knew Palin was the winner before it even ended".

My friend sent me this email:

So there I was, supporting the USSS at the debate last night...when the major media networks are preparing to shoot their post-debate analysis and whatnot in front of the debate hall. The entire night, I saw nothing but McCain/Palin signs coming through the gates. So, obviously, afterwards, all those people came outside and held up their Republican signs for the backdrop of the network shots. Lo and behold, the networks refused to roll tape, saying it was ruining their backdrop, and got the Vice Chancellor of the University to make them move. Of course, I turned on MSNBC last night, the chief complainer, and they managed to find a hundred BHO signs for their backdrop. I can promise you this, those people were not inside the grounds of the debate site last night.

Originally posted by jerico65
So, obviously, afterwards, all those people came outside and held up their Republican signs for the backdrop of the network shots. Lo and behold, the networks refused to roll tape, saying it was ruining their backdrop, and got the Vice Chancellor of the University to make them move. Of course, I turned on MSNBC last night, the chief complainer, and they managed to find a hundred BHO signs for their backdrop. I can promise you this, those people were not inside the grounds of the debate site last night.

Man. That's just deplorable. That belongs in a thread of it's own. Frankly, I'm not bothered by a media outlet choosing sides; it's their right as a private company. I have HUGE problems with them misrepresenting situations---LYING----to try and influence perception. I'd like to change all that.

yeah. me and what army?

reply to post by dr_strangecraft


I'll volunteer to be in your army. Something needs to be done to bring honesty back to the MSM.

Originally posted by gl2Palin didn't even answer her.

I agree this was Palin's biggest weakness. If you are going to be the VP or President you need to address topics you don't like or that are out of your hands. Palin can't even handle questioning she dislikes, instead she openly refuses to answer the question or changes the subject. This is not a quality I want in a VP, that quality exist heavily in our current presidential administration.

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage

Originally posted by gl2Palin didn't even answer her.

I agree this was Palin's biggest weakness. If you are going to be the VP or President you need to address topics you don't like or that are out of your hands. Palin can't even handle questioning she dislikes, instead she openly refuses to answer the question or changes the subject. This is not a quality I want in a VP, that quality exist heavily in our current presidential administration.

I agree, this is exactly why she is more of the same. I don't think it really matters to a great deal of the remaining republicans who haven't jumped ship yet; they'll vote for who ever the party nominates and go down with the ship.

Like the various conservative media articles saying that the debate was close when any remotely intelligent and observant person knows that isn't true. American politics is so polarized and emotional, always makes for an entertaining show from the outside looking in

reply to post by skyshow


I noticed that body language too in response to the question on gay marriage, and her facial expression which to me looked more like contained rage. I was expecting her to spout off some diatribe about how god hates gays.

I think they should marry each other they are so alike, Biden needs a new wife and Palin looks just up his street in every requirement. If not that, at least a sh-g behind closed doors, shame they are at opposite ends.

Clearly it was Palin's night. Biden looked like what he is - a man that's been in Washington too long - only 30+ years. They could have put any 30+ year senator up there and hit the play button and gotten the same results. It's time for CHANGE and that's McCain - Palin