Vice Presidential Debate- Palin vs. Biden: The Thread

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posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 08:10 AM
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I'm making this post without having read the thread, so my response is un-influenced...


I was very impressed with Palin's general performance. She was substantially more coherent than she has been recently.

I was very UN-impressed with her pattern of not answering the questions. Time and again she ignored the question she was asked, and answered some other question. Not appropriate behavior for someone interviewing for a job.

I found her comments about the duties of the Vice President to be extremely disturbing. It seems clear she is partial to the Cheney view of the office, and not so much the Constitutional view. Not good. Seriously not good.

I consider that she exceeded my expectations for her in the debate, but did not meet my expectations for someone who was interviewing for the job.

Biden met my expectations for both... pretty much no surprises from him. I found him to be on target and answered most questions clearly and (relatively) concisely.

I was somewhat disappointed in the moderation of the debate. I wish Ifill had been more aggressive with both of them. These people are interviewing to fill a position of employment with the US citizenry, not to fill a position of ruling. They need to be reminded of this. So I believe Ifill could and should have been more willing to press them on not answering questions, for instance.

All in all, the debate had no significant impact on my position in the election. I do not believe the McCain-Palin ticket is the right direction for my country. Obama-Biden may well not be, either, but M-P is definitely not.

Bread and Circus, mostly.




posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 08:13 AM
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reply to post by SectionEight
 


Once again, scoring the debate comes down to what each person considers a point. If you look at substance, intelligence, knowledge, awareness of issues, Biden clearly "won". If you look at the ability to exceed low-bar expectations, avoid answers, be "charming", snippy and "cutesy", and to string prepared talking points together, then Palin "won".



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 08:28 AM
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reply to post by Open_Minded Skeptic
 


I thought your review of the debate was pretty much on target.


I'll admit Palin did better than I expected, as a matter of fact you could say she was winning the debate for the first 45 minutes, but after that it went downhill for her. She wasn't answering any of the questions in the second half of the debate and kept resorting to idiotic colloquialisms and patriotic rhetoric. And what the hell was she doing bringing up Cheney and finding more flexibility in the powers of the VP? I found that a bit concerning and way out of left field.

Biden was too quick at the beginning and seemed a bit nervous, but once he found his rhythm and started landing his jab so to speak, he rolled from there.

Peace


[edit on 3-10-2008 by Dr Love]



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 09:40 AM
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Palin held her own verus a 35 year experienced politican......not bad considering she's been at it for only 5 weeks.

One Biden comment really disturbed me....it was when he mentioned that Obama wanted Binden in the Oval Office to help him alone with decisions.

What...Obama can not make his own decisions?.....who would actually be running the country in an Obama/Biden administration? Would Pelosi & Reid and other influencial Dems 'used' Bindens 35 years of politics to enfore their adgenda?



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by SectionEight
 




Palin won the debate even the liberals over at MSN can see that.
This finally puts to rest all the Palin haters saying she was a bad choice. Every time she made Biden show off his pearly white teeth in that gigantic phoney smile of his, you just knew there were expletives he was holding back. After the one hour mark his tone even went into submission mode.

I must have missed that one....

The debate I saw had Palin openly and obstinately refuse to answer almost all the debate questions. When she did answer there was never any "straight talk" just a bunch of ya'becha's......She should have just give a speech and left. That was no debate.....

My favorite was Biden pointing out how disingenuous she was with her comments about Biden wanting to cut troop funding. his response pointed out her attempt to....uh, tell half the truth? Funny the things we forget (on purpose).



BIDEN: John McCain voted to cut off funding for the troops. Let me say that again. John McCain voted against an amendment containing $1 billion, $600 million that I had gotten to get MRAPS, those things that are protecting the governor's son and pray god my son and a lot of other sons and daughters.

He voted against it. He voted against funding because he said the amendment had a time line in it to end this war.


[edit on 3-10-2008 by Grafilthy]



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 09:51 AM
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Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic
I found her comments about the duties of the Vice President to be extremely disturbing.


Right on... Basically, she's ignorant on basics of Constitution and government structure. Scary, just scary.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by ferretman2
One Biden comment really disturbed me....it was when he mentioned that Obama wanted Binden in the Oval Office to help him alone with decisions.


Personally, I'm in favor of having a President that listens to input from others with knowledge. That's a Good Thing.



What...Obama can not make his own decisions?.....who would actually be running the country in an Obama/Biden administration?


There is a huge difference between soliciting input and not being able to make a decision. Obama can clearly make his own decisions, even after hearing various input. Again, this is a Good Thing.

It is clear that Obama would be in charge in an Obama/Biden administration... Obama is sufficiently confident and secure to make the final decision, even after hearing input.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 10:50 AM
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Though Biden did not describe it as 'input' this is his quote:


But Barack Obama indicated to me he wanted me with him to help him govern.


elections.nytimes.com...

Sounds to me that Obama is requesting 'on-the-job' training.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by ferretman2
Though Biden did not describe it as 'input' this is his quote:


But Barack Obama indicated to me he wanted me with him to help him govern.


elections.nytimes.com...

Sounds to me that Obama is requesting 'on-the-job' training.


The duty of VP is to help govern. Your point?

McCain, on the other hand, solicited Palin into campaign just for the PR effect alone... Which stinks.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 11:11 AM
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While Sarah Palin obviously did not win the debate last night, at least she did "win" in the sense by coming accross much better than any of her previous interviews. All eyes really were on her, which is a shame, because Biden did fantastically.

Like I heard someone say, Sarah Palin would make a fabulous day-time talk show host, but is definitely NOT qualified to help run a country.

I think the American people are tired of the "I'm your buddy, just trust me" kind of tactics that we have been getting from Bush. McCain and Palin seem to be using the same tactic. I'm sorry if most people find facts boring, but the truth are that facts are IMPORTANT and if McCain and Palin can't even take the time to present the facts accurately, what makes us think that they would be able to evaluate the facts accurately?

I'll take a boring albeit intelligent and responsible president anyday over someone full of personality and nothing else.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by ferretman2
 




Sounds to me that Obama is requesting 'on-the-job' training.


Sounds to me like a little parrot learned to read talking points. Maybe not.....Glen Beck on the radio???

Truth is....we shouldbe so lucky as to have a president who can ACTUALLY LISTEN to someone who isn't telling him to "stay on principle"(read: ignore the will of the people).



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem
Basically, she's ignorant on basics of Constitution and government structure. Scary, just scary.


That very well could be true. But we also have this -

Biden Said - "Vice President Cheney has been the most dangerous vice president we’ve had probably in American history. The idea he doesn’t realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that’s the Executive Branch. He works in the Executive Branch. He should understand that. Everyone should understand that. "

Biden said that Article 1 of the Constitution grants the Vice President his/her role. Isn't it Article 2 that provides the Executive branch their enumerated powers? Isn't Article 1 is for the legislature?

I've got a copy of the Constitution on the wall here ... this is our old Home School room. I'm pretty sure I'm reading this correctly - and Biden got his Constitution mixed up. (unless I'm the one who's wrong - and I very well could be)


BTW - I agree that Cheney is one of the most dangerous people - POTUS or V.POTUS - but not for the reason Biden said.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Is it possible he was defining the role of the VP IN the legislative branch? As far as I know it is supposed to be minimal. As in tie breaker vote.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


I just re-read the relevant parts of the Constitution. Article 1 is indeed about legislative branch, but what it also does is it delimits the presence and role of executive power in it (also the VP), and I guess Biden meant that. I agree that he could have provided more detail.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:11 PM
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campaignspot.nationalreview.com...

List of fourteen lies by Biden?

You be the judge.

I know why he looked so stressed,

His earpiece malfunctioned,


I would vote for Palin in a heartbeat , not McCain, but Palin, there, I said it.



[edit on 123131p://bFriday2008 by Stormdancer777]



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Stormdancer777
campaignspot.nationalreview.com...

List of fourteen lies by Biden?

You be the judge.

I know why he looked so stressed,

His earpiece malfunctioned,


I would vote for Palin in a heartbeat , not McCain, but Palin, there, I said it.



[edit on 123131p://bFriday2008 by Stormdancer777]


This link is to a conservative site and it says this in the posting:


Content from external source:

Below, you’ll find a list of 14 “lies” Biden told last night, distributed by the McCain campaign.


I'd like to see another source supporting these claims, one that points out Palin's lies last night as well.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:29 PM
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well I will read either conservative or liberal,

the facts are still the facts, unless they are not the facts,


just double triple check them


[edit on 123131p://bFriday2008 by Stormdancer777]



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:30 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Hey, Joe six-pack here.

Was that a real debate last night? I thought I was watching SNL again.


Seriously, I thought it was a good debate. Joe Biden did very well, and Palin, well she was "pale in" comparison. (been waiting for a while to say that).

Palin did better than expected by most, but did about as well as what I expected. I agree with others on her answer on powers of the VP either showed naivety or showed agreement on how Cheney has run the position like a bully. My guess is that the former is more probable than the later.

Biden displayed the ability to be able to step up to the plate if need be, but Palin and her "hockey mom" persona is something I would not feel comfortable with envisioning her with her finger on the nuclear button. I think she is probably more intelligent than how she looked, but it is just not very presidential.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by Stormdancer777
well I will read either conservative or liberal,

the facts are still the facts, unless they are not the facts,


just double triple check them


[edit on 123131p://bFriday2008 by Stormdancer777]



You know the McCain campaign lies a lot lately right? That is why I ask for another source.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:36 PM
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AAAAHHHHH!!!!!! Article 1 tells the VP's role IIIINNNNNN the legislative branch. To cast a tie breaking vote.

Therefore he was right.

He did not need an earpiece. His only "blunder" was not making her look as uninformed as she really is. The bar was set so low that even if there was a guy with a bullhorn on the sideline yelling the answers to her, she could do no wrong. She never answered a question. I can't believe this argument even has two sides.





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