Vice Presidential Debate- Palin vs. Biden: The Thread

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posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by jam321
 


Absolutely agree about dems jumping on the bandwagon, thats why this administration spending has been though the roof, all those earmarks that they needed to approve to get dems on board...discusting.

IMO Congress has lost its relevancy as soon as the earmark money started rolling.




posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
Is it just me, or is she reading from notes on the podium? Damn, it looks like he is too!


They all have notes. Did you not see Senator Obama and Senator McCain writing down notes during their debate? Especially in todays world of so much scrutiny, you pretty much need your own outline of the topics you wish to touch upon, and some facts that represent and/or back-up those topics.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:28 AM
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Originally posted by Bunch
reply to post by jam321
 


Absolutely agree about dems jumping on the bandwagon, thats why this administration spending has been though the roof, all those earmarks that they needed to approve to get dems on board...discusting.

IMO Congress has lost its relevancy as soon as the earmark money started rolling.


Does Congress not appear as though they are a bunch of kids jumping around trying to catch what falls out of the "Pinata"?

Now I heard about an "Earmark" that includes Wooden Arrows for a Boy Scout Competition, if I recall the details correctly. The local Representative stated that this is necessary since the Archery Ranges only supply Aluminum and other Alloy Arrows, which the Scouts do not use. After hearing this, I am wondering when the Tax-Payers will begin to provide funding for my Ammunition at the Shooting (Firearms) Range? This is absolutely ridiculous.

Congress is doing nothing but attempting to Pervert the Current United States Presidential Election. You better believe that Pelosi will attempt to hang this issue up, then go on blabbing about President Bush again. She must be in love with the President, as she seems to begin and end every speech with a mention of him. How can Congress function properly when a sizeable number of the Representatives are more concerned with vengeance as opposed to actually doing their jobs?



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 12:59 AM
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I thought Biden did quite well at providing a dynamic series of arguments and showed amazing restraint at times. He knew his issues well enough to work from talking points and frequently strayed from them which was very apparent in contrast to Palin. Take when Biden was on topic with the mortgage crisis, accuses McCain of saying there was no big deal less than a year ago, ball goes to Palin and she's asked if that is correct and if she would like to respond to the accusations... she says "No that is not correct" and then shifts the debate 180 degrees to energy; apparently her speech wasn't in the right order...

Palin essentially delivered a speech at a debate, never budging from her prepared lines. Incoherently rambling off a word for word speech, bouncing from topic to topic making statements about McCain's policies without addressing the majority of accusations leveled at her from Biden or showing much effort in staying on topic due to the inflexibility of her lines.

Overall, Biden did exactly as everyone expected and came off as someone who naturally fit the role of VP. Palin did better than expected but everyone expected her to more or less drool and flail about; plus it's not hard when you're reading a prepared speech that you likely had a great deal of assistance with. It would've been nice if she had made an attempt to respond to Biden's accusations and positions so it could have actually become a debate however...



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 01:10 AM
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I have to say, Governor Palin won this debate hands down. Everyone was discussing how low the bar was set for her speaking achievements, but not only did she meet that bar, she also exceeded any and all expectations amongst those who did not have any experience with the "Real" Sarah Palin. I viewed video of her from her Gubernatorial Debates in Alaska, and even heard her opponent speak about her during an interview today. Her Alaskan opponent even stated that she has a gift, and a way of making you feel her points, even when she might not spew forth the latest percentages or statistics.

Face it, a debate is not simply about statistics, it is about making people understand your point of view, even if they do not fully agree with it. Too often I see listeners critiquing a speaker simply for "facts", yet they miss out on the entire speech and what was actually put forth. Essentially, you either have the ability to convey your thoughts to an audience, or you do not.

Governor Palin did a great job at hitting back at Senator Biden, and even defending Senator McCain's stances on numerous issues. In fact, Governor Palin did a BETTER job that even Senator McCain HIMSELF.

I also noticed Senator Biden making some serious contradictions during his speeches, some of which Governor Palin capitalized upon. The most major slip-up that caught my ears was the idea of an Iraqi "Surge" Type of Strategy to be used in Afghanistan. Governor Palin had mentioned this, to which Senator Biden replied that the Commander of OEF had told him that such a Strategy would not work in Afghanistan. THEN, after some speaking, Senator Biden made a comment about the OEF Commander requesting Additional Ground Forces. Sending in Additional Ground Forces is in fact a "Surge", and to that fact Senator Biden simply contradicted himself. Also, Senator Biden discussed changing the Interest Rates and Principal of financial loans, however, he cannot change the Principal.

On a similar note, Senator Biden was also wrong about Senator McCain's vote on Bosnia, for which Senator McCain actually pushed Republicans into backing President Clinton's Mission Statement.

I will not delve any farther into nitpicking, but I simply felt these three specific matters stood out as far slip-ups go.

Governor Palin also did a great job of using Senator Biden's own words against him and his running mate Senator Obama. That was pure genius, as she used ammunition self-provided by her opposition.

I will say the complete exchange was amazingly civilized and couth. I give both Governor Palin and Senator Biden credit for retaining their class and composure throughout a tough debate.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by ANoNyMiKE
"No that is not correct" and then shifts the debate 180 degrees to energy; apparently her speech wasn't in the right order...



Apparently you do not understand the concept of a true debate. In order to win a debate, you must keep the issues in your court. If you have a strong-point as opposed to a weak-point, you obviously attempt to ratchet the pressure up through your strengths, and keep your opponent on the defense through their weaknesses. It is a simple yet effective debate strategy, and is in many ways no different than any competition for that matter. We all know that Governor Palin is extremely strong in the aspect of Energy, while Senator Biden is stronger Economy wise. Thus they both attempted to tie in their Strengths to any available discussion. They were both equal in this aspect.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 01:30 AM
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Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen

Originally posted by ANoNyMiKE
"No that is not correct" and then shifts the debate 180 degrees to energy; apparently her speech wasn't in the right order...



Apparently you do not understand the concept of a true debate. In order to win a debate, you must keep the issues in your court. If you have a strong-point as opposed to a weak-point, you obviously attempt to ratchet the pressure up through your strengths, and keep your opponent on the defense through their weaknesses. It is a simple yet effective debate strategy, and is in many ways no different than any competition for that matter. We all know that Governor Palin is extremely strong in the aspect of Energy, while Senator Biden is stronger Economy wise. Thus they both attempted to tie in their Strengths to any available discussion. They were both equal in this aspect.


Apparently she had a great deal of weak points because this went on throughout the debate. She avoided answering to accusations and instead moved on to entirely different issues. Biden again responds to her position demonstrating hes on top of all the angles, like I said, a very dynamic showing by Biden.
All she did was pass on her opportunities to respond, change the subject to which Biden always had an answer and then passed again when it came back to him... around and around.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 01:50 AM
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reply to post by TheAgentNineteen
 


Agent! What are you saying?!?!? Please tell me your joking! Be objective. I will assume you're a rational objective thinker and not a right-wing nut (because you seem to reason fairly well in your posts), and this being the case, you are the only person that thinks she won. There's just no way...

Whenever Palin would go into her prepared speeches, Biden would then counter POINT BY POINT on why she was wrong. That happened almost at every rebuttal, and his arguments were more than just coherent, they were good!

Conversely, Palin's rebuttals were a constant duck and dodge, and a retreat back to her staple; energy. And it wasn't done discreetly. Her inexperience showed in that dodging. Psssttt... Hey Palin! We All Noticed!!!!

Look, she was great when she was on script (but that's not hard. Those are prepared). She lost it when she had to sway from her script. That's always been her problem. But then again, when you only have a few weeks to cram on the worlds issues, you can only retain so much in such a short amount of time.

Agent, be honest with yourself and with us. She didn't win that. Biden won on form and substance. Palin was just reciting.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 02:02 AM
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Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
Too often I see listeners critiquing a speaker simply for "facts", yet they miss out on the entire speech and what was actually put forth.


With all due respect, did you really just post this? Are you really asserting that "listeners" should not judge debaters on the facts? Are you really saying that there are other criteria we should look at other than how well they know their stuff?

If a question deals with, say, the candidates health care plan, and Biden challenges the merits and, frankly, the dishonesty, of McCain's proposal, and then Palin DOES NOT answer the question and DOES NOT address the rebuttal, but rather changes topic to, guess what, ENERGY??? So, what am I missing exactly in the "entirety" of that speech? What subliminal message was she putting out that I obviously missed because, to me and many others, it looked like she couldn't answer the question



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 02:15 AM
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reply to post by TheAgentNineteen
 





Thus they both attempted to tie in their Strengths to any available discussion. They were both equal in this aspect.


True. So hey it boils down to who you can imagine as Vice. I think while Palin appears confident at times, Biden has a much more VP stature feel to him (tonality, temperment, etc).

Honestly why did McCain pick Palin as his mate? It's like he doesn't want to win..


I think Condi would be a muchhhh better VP than Palin. She could compete in the "stature" department.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 02:20 AM
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Palin came out ahead in the debate IMO, and I totally despise all four of the main choices in this election. Biden was constantly hissing and huffing into the microphone when Palin nailed his neocon butt during the debates! I can't be the only one that heard it am I?

The moderator was clearly in the tank for the Obama scampaign!! I really despise the state of our election process. This was a journalist from the public broadcast station correct? What a sad state of affairs when the PBS leans so far down the Democratic nominees trousers. They should be absolutely ashamed of themselves!!

I think that the Republicans came out ahead of the Dems in this debate and the one before, no matter what the biased graph on CNN says. The graph regularly went under 50% whenever it was Palins turn to speak, even before she uttered a single word in response. Was I the only one that noticed?

They had Palin playing possum all along to come out with the guns blazing for her debate, really good move on their part. I would have strategically done it the same way if I was running their campaign. She nailed Biden on several occasions so good that all his neocon butt could do was smile while she laid into him.

I give it a win for McCain/Palin..... even though I will never vote for either ticket! Any other party besides the two headed snake get my vote for the remainder of my life in this country even if I have to vote for myself or some corpse six feet under on the presidential ticket.

Get over the media mind programing please and ditch these fools in a shallow ditch on the side of the road. None of them are any good for this country! I'd rather vote for Putin in this point in time in American history.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 02:28 AM
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Originally posted by Satanlike god
The moderator was clearly in the tank for the Obama scampaign!!

How? and When during the debate was this made clear to you?



I think that the Republicans came out ahead of the Dems in this debate and the one before, no matter what the biased graph on CNN says. The graph regularly went under 50% whenever it was Palins turn to speak, even before she uttered a single word in response. Was I the only one that noticed?

That's not completely true. AND have you seen Fox's attempt at dialing?? Talk about bias!



She nailed Biden on several occasions so good that all his neocon butt could do was smile while she laid into him.

She did? Examples please? And did you count how many times Biden just thrashed her comments?



Get over the media mind programing please and ditch these fools in a shallow ditch on the side of the road. None of them are any good for this country!

Something we agree on! Well, not the Putin part



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 02:30 AM
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A couple of poor looking and untalented chickens debate who of them is the dumbest. Why don`t they simply stay at their homes and bake a cake or something useful?



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 03:05 AM
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reply to post by tommy_boy
 


Maybe you didn't know about the moderators book idolizing Obama? No worries, continue along


Watch the debate, the graph regularly went under 50% while she was asking the question to Palin. You could easily blame the Ohio populace attending the debate, that would be the easiest way to describe the discrepancies. That way you nor I would have to waste our breath arguing over pathetic candidates right?

McCain's was screaming about using alternate energy means to power our country since his campaign started. i.e. Nuclear Power, clean coal. drilling within our country, etc. while Obama was saying no way on those sources of energy infrastructure for our country up until the point he received the nomination and realized that his beliefs weren't up to par with current technologies and achievements by our scientists. None of these concepts is new to this world, so none of them gets any credit for being an innovator.

Biden imo just regurgitated the same old b.s. that has been keeping us from crawling up from underneath our freshly laid grave. He is part of the problem, as is the other 3 currently elected tried and true to the cause, aspiring for a higher position federal government employees screwing us all over. Palin is just as much a pawn as all of these elected individuals that "represent" the American people. As I said I don not care for any of them, so I would rather not get into a reply, cite a source b.s. internet peen match over it, they are not worth your time, nor mine. Enjoy your enslavement as I will mine.

I still stand by my stance that Biden was whooped considering the odds against Palin going into this match. How many more minutes was Biden standing there with the "I just ate #$@! grin and it tasted good" compared to Palin's, while she stood there like she just shot a trophy moose in the tundra of Alaska? She bagged a capitol hill trophy too bad she can't put his head on the wall.

At least Putin had the cojones to put the multi national corps in their places within his nation's pecking order. When will our officials step up to the plate?It's all orchestrated B.S. anyways, welcome to the whole world is a stage.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 03:13 AM
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Originally posted by Satanlike god
reply to post by tommy_boy
 


Maybe you didn't know about the moderators book idolizing Obama? No worries, continue along


I do know about that book, but your post implied a bias that you saw during the debate, which I did not see and I don't think many did either. Also, my understanding is that the book is not specifically about Obama, but rather about black leaders. Either way, that book is a reason to more closely scrutinize her, but I'm pretty certain that not eve Fox News will find any blatant bias. If anything, I think she was TOO subdued because of the potential media storm.



Watch the debate, the graph regularly went under 50% while she was asking the question to Palin. You could easily blame the Ohio populace attending the debate, that would be the easiest way to describe the discrepancies. That way you nor I would have to waste our breath arguing over pathetic candidates right?

Good point!



As I said I don not care for any of them, so I would rather not get into a reply, cite a source b.s. internet peen match over it, they are not worth your time, nor mine. Enjoy your enslavement as I will mine.





I still stand by my stance that Biden was whooped considering the odds against Palin going into this match.

You're making this assertion based on the lowered standards given to Palin. There's no 'handicap' in debates! Either you're ON, or you get trounced.

I do agree with you, however, that, at the end of the day, they're all the same.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 03:13 AM
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My take is pretty simple.

Biden: I agree with the poster above. Same old BS. It was so obvious to see that he is a seasoned Politician and simply said what he thought was all the right things.

Palin: I have to admit, she is attractive and personable, however I was not impressed one bit. She just came off very scripted and towards the end every time she spoke I'd swear I was watching a McCain infomercial.

I honestly am done wasting my time with either Candidate and I am for sure looking towards the 3rd parties.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 03:57 AM
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I think we can now add a new phrase to the English language - "doing a Palin" which is an instance like this:

Q. "How are you?"
A. "Wednesday"



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 07:13 AM
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I think Palin missed her chance to jab Biden and the Democrats who have done nothing for the past two years to improve the economy all they can do is bitch about Bush, Wall Street and Capitalism.....they have control the purse strings for two years but your saying you have no blame in the Wall Street blowup?

4year after Obama has been elected he still be blaming Bush for the state of affairs. Is that want you want to vote for? Vote for Obama is vote for for Iran and Terrorist and it will also been a vote to destroy the USA.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 07:19 AM
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Looks like that here on ATS and around the country the answer to "Who Won?" depends on who you ask and who is talking.

Right leaning Drudge & Fox polls last night showed Palin winning.

Left leaning MSNBC and others show Biden winning.

No real surprise - people tend to graviate towards views that are similar to their own and the viewership of the various news orgs. reflect that.



posted on Oct, 3 2008 @ 07:29 AM
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Palin won the debate even the liberals over at MSN can see that.
This finally puts to rest all the Palin haters saying she was a bad choice. Every time she made Biden show off his pearly white teeth in that gigantic phoney smile of his, you just knew there were expletives he was holding back. After the one hour mark his tone even went into submission mode.





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